DGSD VS Condors

Been thinking about this group match for awhile and reading the DGSD comparison thread to ROCH has inspired me to make this thread.

Xiao Feng vs. Yang Guo +HIS
Xiao Yuanshan vs. Guo Jing
Murong Bo vs. Zhang Sanfeng
Jiumozhi vs. Zhang Wuji

Everyone at their peak abilities, no fire deviating, no chokes, set up as 1v1, one at a time. Winner is at least 3 wins, of course!

XF vs YG = Think YG has this with the HIS, without it, XF should be able to edge him out
XYS vs. GJ = GJ
MB vs. ZS = Tossup, hard to tell, ZS seems like a god but he's also old :[
JMZ vs. ZWJ = JMZ, easily

I am of the opinion that DG9J-esque fighting style is the best. This means focusing on hitting opponent without caring about your safety. This produces better results than fighting regularly.

XF and XYS are known for this style, while YG has done it once (he cannot do it regularly).

When Xiao Feng fights with regular style, YTZ + MRF outlasting him is what happens.

So, I believe XF and XYS will defeat another fighting at their level if they fight DG9J-esquely.

Assuming DGSD Elites ~= ROCH Greats, and not considering XYS/MRB's internal injuries:

1. Xiao Feng would beat Yang Guo; he is a better fighter.

2. Guo Jing should beat Xiao Yuanshan because of better techniques (XL18Z)

3. I think Zhang Sanfeng is overall stronger but his age may cause him to lose; I still pick him though.

4. Jiu Mozhi because Zhang Wuji chokes too much. If it was a best of 5 or more then ZWJ has a chance.

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Originally Posted by PJ

I am of the opinion that DG9J-esque fighting style is the best. This means focusing on hitting opponent without caring about your safety. This produces better results than fighting regularly.

XF and XYS are known for this style, while YG has done it once (he cannot do it regularly).

When Xiao Feng fights with regular style, YTZ + MRF outlasting him is what happens.

So, I believe XF and XYS will defeat another fighting at their level if they fight DG9J-esquely.

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I noted in the other thread that perhaps YG uses Sad Palms in a more DG9J-esque way subconsciously when he is sad, which is why it's power is heightened and tied to his emotional state. When he is sad, he is more reckless and aggressive, and his technique as well as energy allocation shifts more to attacking than defending, and it gives the opponent a lot of trouble. It is fitting that he's been practicing Dugu sword theories for years also.

If that is the case, perhaps an outsider can indeed learn Sad Palms and just adapt to a more aggressive style that YG himself does not even realize he is doing when he is sad.

In this particular line up, Condor for the win

My rationale:

Xiao Feng = Yang Guo +HIS (hard to argue for who would win, XF has fighting spirit but YG is no choker and has his HIS)
Xiao Yuanshan < Guo Jing (GJ has proven to fight consistently well and has vast resource of techniques along with younger age)
Murong Bo =< Zhang Sanfeng (Z3F is older, but he's one of the few guys I feel has mastered very pure internal much like 1-Deng. And his Taiji fist should negate the effects of old age)
Jiumozhi = Zhang Wuji (ZWJ may not have the fighting instinct, but he still has demonstrated a capacity to up his game when needed. JMZ doesn't have any X-factor as well)

Hence, GJ and Z3F I think will be the ones to tip the scale.

Due to my opinion that the DGSD Elites are at least moderately stronger (For me the gap is at least big enough for the Elites to be able to achieve a clear decisive victory over the Greats. I've never believed in the idea that Elites ~= Greats.), if not a lot stronger than the Condor Trilogy Greats due to more emphasis on feats and power in DGSD...

Xiao Feng will beat Yang Guo with or without HIS. Xiao Feng has more internal than anyone in the Condor Trilogy and the unparalleled fighting spirit. I predict it will take as long as the Yang Guo vs Golden Wheel Monk last fight.
Xiao Yuanshan will also crush Guo Jing as he has more internal power and seems to have the warrior spirit and rage that his son has.
Murong Bo will definitely annihilate Zhang Sanfeng due to younger age and Murong is on par with Xiao Feng and he also performed the 80 feet LDA which is unmatched by anything in the Condor Trilogy.
Jiumozhi will slaughter Zhang Wuji simply because Zhang Wuji doesn't know how to fight. No need to say more.

It would have been nice to see HIS use by YG after the 16 year mark, we just don't know it's full potential when used by someone with Great Level Internal. I'm of the opinion that the HIS would level him up quite nicely and even without it, he'd be no slouch to XF.

We only see YG in one true battle after the 16 year mark(the others were spars) and its hard to place him since he's fighting GWM.

XYS vs. GJ is interesting too because they're both around the same age.

@PJ, It seems XF's style of fighting without regard for his own safety is powerful but in my opinion, only extremely powerful if your attacks are more fearsome than your opponents. I believe YG's HIS attack would put caution to XF and he'd fight more cautiously.

I only see XF fighting with his all out aggressive style if YG is using sad palms.

@Snafu, what do you think about JMZ's experience vs ZWJ's experience. To me, that match would just be like JMZ vs XZ, except an easier time. XZ had much less experience and combat ability but his internal more than made up for it. I'd think JMZ would find it not only easier to fight ZWJ, but be able to exploit that inexperience.

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Originally Posted by CancerLuna

@Snafu, what do you think about JMZ's experience vs ZWJ's experience. To me, that match would just be like JMZ vs XZ, except an easier time. XZ had much less experience and combat ability but his internal more than made up for it. I'd think JMZ would find it not only easier to fight ZWJ, but be able to exploit that inexperience.

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In a way, we also really don't know JMZ's battle experience. There is no mention of JMZ's exploits prior to his appearance, and JMZ doesn't really demonstrate amazing fighting prowess when it comes to opponents of his own lvl or better (he ran away from DY after seeing a little bit of 6MSJ). And there were very few battles involving JMZ within the DGSD story itself for us to see sufficient battle screentime.

Whereas ZWJ does fight quite a few opponents in HSDS which eventually gave him enough exp to break even with the Du Monks. Although I think ZWJ is not instinctively a fighter, he can put on his "whoop arse" hat when needed. And his massive collection of internal and techniques should allow him to put up quite a fight with JMZ

I don't think ZWJ can tank JMZ's hits like XZ does. But theoretically ZWJ can redirect JMZ's attack energies using QKDNY (although this is my own hunch because we never see ZWJ re-direct a Greats lvl attack in HSDS).

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Originally Posted by chibidaisuke

Xiao Feng has more internal than anyone in the Condor Trilogy and the unparalleled fighting spirit.

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Doubt it. XF had a number of peers for internal in his own novel, and was simply dwarfed by DY and XZ. YTZ likely had the same amount, if not more. XF's advantage is in the fierceness of his palms and his fighting spiriit, not because of some internal advantage. Meanwhile, YG likely has the speed advantage (thanks to AT martial arts) and he's no choker. In fact, you could easily argue that out of the Condor Heroes trilogy, YG is the one that chokes the least. He's not too moral, like GJ, so he's willing to use underhanded tricks. And he's not a lousy fighter, like ZWJ. I'd say with the HIS it's a hard match to call. The HIS certainly presents some matchup difficulties. I'd give XF the slight advantage, but it's a lot closer than this thread has made it out to be.

XYS vs GJ is a pretty good one. GJ has better techniques though, and 9YZJ internal to back him up, so I like him to edge XYS in a long fight, who may tire more than GJ.

I like MRB over ZSF because he can probably last long. Both of them have tremendous technique, but ZSF has always performed underwhelmingly in the novels.

JMZ vs ZWJ is probably another ZWJ chokefest.

I'd say these are solid pairings with probably a slight advantage to the DGSD group, but each of these are close enough that one or two matches (in a best of 3/5 series) could swing the whole thing.

Although I believe XF is the #1 fighter in JY universe, I think perception is the key here in analyzing YG's overall fighter ability. We only see him in one true match at his peak and he was beating GWM at less than full power. Another factor is the HIS last appearance was versus QQR, who YG also beat convincingly.

Whereas we see XF fight many life and death battles at his peak, and show off brilliant overperformance.

Imagine ROCH starts with YG already at 30, or even 20 :D

Just a big matter of perceptions IMO.

GJ and XYS should be around the same age, and we never see him fight after the 16 year mark. I wonder if he would also suffer under old age along with XYS, effectively negating any age advantage.

JMZ vs ZWJ, ZWJ also suffers under perception, if he had just fought a Great Level opponent(even with all the choking in the novel), he'd rank up higher in my opinion. To this point, I don't believe he can handle any Great Levels.

DGSD Elites would win for sure..
- Xiao Feng vs Yang Guo : Xiao Feng win
- Xiao Yuanshan vs Guo Jing : deadlock
- Murong Bo vs Zhang Sanfeng : Murong Bo
- Jiumozhi vs Zhang Wuji : Jiumozhi
😋😋

I think this is actually a very close fight that can go either way:

1. Xiao Feng vs Yang Guo - This depends largely on how "sad" YG is. XLN life on the line? YG wins. Otherwise I would say it's a draw.

2. Xiao Yuanshan vs Guo Jing - This would be a deadlock until about after 2000+ exchanges, which is when I think 9Yin "incredible mana regeneration" would come into play. XYS would tire out and GJ would emerge victorous.

3. Murong Bo vs Zhang Sanfeng - I'll have to give the edge to Murong Bo, largely due to Z3F old age. It may come down to an internal energy battle where they exhaust each other to death.

4. Jiumozhi vs Zhang Wu Ji - Everyone is just commenting on how much ZWJ chokes, but TS specifically mention "no chokes"... so... With 9YSG internal, QKDNY and Taiji, I feel that ZWJ is in a position where he wouldn't lose. Even if he can't overcome JMZ, he should stall out indefinitely until GJ come to his assitance. :P

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Originally Posted by WuxiaMaster

I think this is actually a very close fight that can go either way:

1. Xiao Feng vs Yang Guo - This depends largely on how "sad" YG is. XLN life on the line? YG wins. Otherwise I would say it's a draw.

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If Little Dragon Girl's life is on the line and Yeung Gor is at maximum sadness, I think he manages a draw. Otherwise, this is Kiu Fung's fight to lose (and he generally doesn't).

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2. Xiao Yuanshan vs Guo Jing - This would be a deadlock until about after 2000+ exchanges, which is when I think 9Yin "incredible mana regeneration" would come into play. XYS would tire out and GJ would emerge victorous.

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Was Siu Yeun San much older than the end of ROCH Gwok Jing? If so, age is a factor, but might not be if Siu isn't that much older than Gwok Jing (around age 56 at the end of ROCH).

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3. Murong Bo vs Zhang Sanfeng - I'll have to give the edge to Murong Bo, largely due to Z3F old age. It may come down to an internal energy battle where they exhaust each other to death.

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Mo Yung Bok has the youth advantage, but I wonder how the internal injuries he sustained through years of improper training methods might affect his performance.

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4. Jiumozhi vs Zhang Wu Ji - Everyone is just commenting on how much ZWJ chokes, but TS specifically mention "no chokes"... so... With 9YSG internal, QKDNY and Taiji, I feel that ZWJ is in a position where he wouldn't lose. Even if he can't overcome JMZ, he should stall out indefinitely until GJ come to his assitance. :P

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Trying to imagine Cheung Mo Gei not choking in a fight, but it's hard. :)