Were GJ's martial arts already better than his Freaks' teachers before learning HL18P

After Gwok Jing had learned Cheun Jen Sect internal energy techniques from Ma Yuk, but before he learned Hong Lung 18 Palms from North Beggar Hung 7 Gung, were Gwok Jing's martial arts already better than those of his Freak teachers except for possibly Freak # 1 (Ohr Jen Ngok)?

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Originally Posted by Ken Cheng

After Gwok Jing had learned Cheun Jen Sect internal energy techniques from Ma Yuk, but before he learned Hong Lung 18 Palms from North Beggar Hung 7 Gung, were Gwok Jing's martial arts already better than those of his Freak teachers except for possibly Freak # 1 (Ohr Jen Ngok)?

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are we talking 6 against 1 (or 5v1, 4v1, etc) or 1v1?

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Originally Posted by LuNaR

are we talking 6 against 1 (or 5v1, 4v1, etc) or 1v1?

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One-on-one.

Even after he learn QZ neigong he still "weaker" than YK and YK more or less equal with his 2nd Master so GJ martial art level at that time perhaps around his 3rd Master which quite pitiful compare with people like OYK or MCF..

i say GJ coulda easily beat any except his oldest sifu (Based on the adaptions i watched). the gangnam 7 freak are some of the worst fighters in the jin yong universe

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Originally Posted by LuNaR

i say GJ coulda easily beat any except his oldest sifu (Based on the adaptions i watched). the gangnam 7 freak are some of the worst fighters in the jin yong universe

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Depends on whom you compare them to. Unfortunately for them, they usually got pitted against people levels above their class. However, the seven of them were once able to defeat a group of 100 enemies, so as long as they weren't up against people like the Greats, they were OK.

Yeeppp individually they only a bit better than 4 River Ghost which far below YK level but if they fought together they could "handle" people like MCF or QCJ and beat OYK..

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Originally Posted by LuNaR

i say GJ coulda easily beat any except his oldest sifu (Based on the adaptions i watched). the gangnam 7 freak are some of the worst fighters in the jin yong universe

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Based on descriptions, I'd say all 7 of them, even fighting alone, were better than any of the Escort Agency that got massacred at the beginning of SPW. Or the Escort Agency that accompanied Yu Daiyan at the beginning of HSDS. Even Han Xiaoying by herself might be capable of giving a few of the Quanzhen 3rd generation a good fight. Their bare MA might not be too impressive, but they had good fighting instincts.

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Originally Posted by pannonian

Based on descriptions, I'd say all 7 of them, even fighting alone, were better than any of the Escort Agency that got massacred at the beginning of SPW. Or the Escort Agency that accompanied Yu Daiyan at the beginning of HSDS. Even Han Xiaoying by herself might be capable of giving a few of the Quanzhen 3rd generation a good fight. Their bare MA might not be too impressive, but they had good fighting instincts.

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These are kind of lackey/red shirt levels. Not really named characters like the freaks

7 Jiangnan Freaks get fame due of their "heroic deed" not about their "martial art"..

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Originally Posted by pannonian

Based on descriptions, I'd say all 7 of them, even fighting alone, were better than any of the Escort Agency that got massacred at the beginning of SPW. Or the Escort Agency that accompanied Yu Daiyan at the beginning of HSDS. Even Han Xiaoying by herself might be capable of giving a few of the Quanzhen 3rd generation a good fight. Their bare MA might not be too impressive, but they had good fighting instincts.

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Not true..
Since people like Yin Zhiping or Zhao Zhiying and all of QZ member also learn "internal art" which The 7 Freaks lack

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Originally Posted by Western Eccentric

7 Jiangnan Freaks get fame due of their "heroic deed" not about their "martial art"..

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In wulin, you need reasonably decent martial arts to perform enough heroic deeds worthy of acquiring fame.

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Originally Posted by Ken Cheng

In wulin, you need reasonably decent martial arts to perform enough heroic deeds worthy of acquiring fame.

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True..
But where and when The 7 Freaks perform their "heroic feats" individually sorry I never heard but if "together" yeah they could perform better

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Originally Posted by Mandred Skavenslayer

These are kind of lackey/red shirt levels. Not really named characters like the freaks

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3rd generation Quanzhen disciples were fairly respected, and even the weakest of the Freaks did not seem out of place compared with that level. The stronger of the Freaks might well have been stronger than even the strongest of the 3rd generation (Zhao Zhijing).

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Originally Posted by Western Eccentric

Not true..
Since people like Yin Zhiping or Zhao Zhiying and all of QZ member also learn "internal art" which The 7 Freaks lack

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Freak #1 had internal power IIRC, and was easily better than Yin Zhiping. Freak #2 didn't have internal power, but his external arts alone were sufficient to dispose of Yin Zhiping (and even perform pilferage without a Great noticing).

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Originally Posted by pannonian

3rd generation Quanzhen disciples were fairly respected, and even the weakest of the Freaks did not seem out of place compared with that level. The stronger of the Freaks might well have been stronger than even the strongest of the 3rd generation (Zhao Zhijing).

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Originally Posted by pannonian

Freak #1 had internal power IIRC, and was easily better than Yin Zhiping. Freak #2 didn't have internal power, but his external arts alone were sufficient to dispose of Yin Zhiping (and even perform pilferage without a Great noticing).

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We saw third-generation Cheun Jen Sect disciples in ROCH. During that time, did the best of the third generation improve to the point that, say, Wan Tze Ping or Chiu Tze Ging had surpassed all of the Freaks individually, including Freak # 1 Ohr Jen Ngok?

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Originally Posted by Ken Cheng

We saw third-generation Cheun Jen Sect disciples in ROCH. During that time, did the best of the third generation improve to the point that, say, Wan Tze Ping or Chiu Tze Ging had surpassed all of the Freaks individually, including Freak # 1 Ohr Jen Ngok?

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IIRC we didn't see anything that was any more impressive than Ke Zhen E's dismissal of young Yin Zhiping. 3rd generation disciples like Yin Zhiping might well have improved in fighting sense with age, but that was never something the Freaks lacked.

how many disciples who could beat his teacher using their own martial arts in JY's universe?
if not , then i think GJ cannot beat any of his freak teachers, as they already know what move GJ will throw to them and GJ is a stiff person, cannot do much variations and creativity

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Originally Posted by a_tumiwa

how many disciples who could beat his teacher using their own martial arts in JY's universe?
if not , then i think GJ cannot beat any of his freak teachers, as they already know what move GJ will throw to them and GJ is a stiff person, cannot do much variations and creativity

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He wouldn't be able to beat all seven of them until after he had learned Hong Lung 18 Palms, but I think he'd be able to handle any one of them except Ohr Jen Ngok just from the inner power training he received from Ma Yuk. Ohr Jen Ngok aside, the other Freaks didn't have any inner power to speak of.

Well TBH The 7 Freaks did not have or know "internal art" at all that's why when ZBT 1st met GJ he ask GJ : did The 7 Freaks also teach you internal art and GJ reply it was Ma Yu and Wang Chuyi who taught him internal skill..