Do you think there is life after death? And if so, can we prove it?

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Originally Posted by kidd

It's hard but no impossible. If it's really impossible, married couple wouldn't be able to stay together until old age. :)

What about 'tomboys' and 'sissies'? Men and women that have temperaments and interests that society deems to belong to the opposite gender?

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well there's that whole yin and yang thing. guys have both masculin and feminine aspects and girls too. Nobody is completely masculin or completely feminine. okay, maybe some rare people are like that but most people have traits of both. girls can be aggressive and rough. guys can be somewhat emotional and soft.

Well, if someone feels strongly about being born in the wrong body, then perhaps that person is of the other gender in the previous life.

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Originally Posted by Guo Xiang

Yittzy, why do you quote the virgin stuff and seems to think of it as canon? You do know that those are the twisted beliefs of certain individuals and groups? It's like stating that the terrorists represent Islam, and you know that's not the case.

Real Christians don't sell their religion, much less shoving it in your face and telling you that people who don't believe are going to Hell. They keep their mouths shut, and that's why there's so much negativity around the religion, because the loud ones tend to be the in-your-face and you-are-going-to-hell types.

It's not the religion, but the people.

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Look, sorry if it was offensive, I didn't mean to suggest that a whole religion was based on that idea even though it did. I was merely pointing out the absurdity of the reward.

I am aware many Christians don't shove their religion in other peoples faces. I don't have a problem with most Christians. I was refering to the idea of religion and its design. I still think it is selling an idea as people seek security and hope.

Fake Christians and bad Christians are still Christians, they are the ones that hold the rest of us back. There are only a lot more "real" Christians now because of the society they live in. And really if their belief is that strong why shouldn't they share the good news with everyone? Aren't they real altruistic people trying to get more people into heaven?

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Originally Posted by remember_Cedric

Well yes, nothing new. If there's something new, it's a religious gimmick. So no, nothing new. It's simply believing and faith. Oh yes, wisdom is strongly connected to faith. Reading the bible without understanding/wisdom, which is a common mistake made by non-believers, is within my expectation. I had approach the bible the way you do, until I decided to give it a chance and opened to it. And, now I know, the words in there don't contradict nor is it misterpreted when I approach them with wisdom. (And, that is a walk, I can only show you the way this much but can't walk with you.)

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Once again you go off on a tangent. Yes religious gimmick, perfectly worded.

Wisdom is just another coined term. Wish to explain how it relates to faith or provide evidence? Or are you going to brush me off again saying you will just have to believe in it, have faith in it. Or even better, to suggest I lack the wisdom to understand this complex relationship. I can very much say naivety is related to unquestioning faith and it certainly makes more sense. In all seriousness, religious faith does seem to 'arise' from our human nature of being filial to an authorative figure, not sure if the gene has been found.

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Originally Posted by remember_Cedric

You're giving me nothing new either. You're simply finding and giving all the "nos", which clearly proves you're being an anti- (I don't have to be a faithful Christian to tell that). It's not from a single word that i conclude that, it''s your "behaviour". For a realistic believer, albeit rather disobedient, I don't usually waste time to "promote" something, until it's your time to go through it.

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I am asking a question. Same question. You are brushing the question of with a wish-wash, lets go off tangent, dismissive manner. If you have any questions about how science explains things, I am happy to provide an explanation with adjunctive evidence, or say I don't know if that's the case.

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Originally Posted by remember_Cedric

Rejects the minority? Like? How liberal do you expect the bible to be, anyway? Certainly, a law is there, there are do-s and don't-s. If everything is a yes, does the world not go haywire? I would call, the bible a book of strict laws to follow. There are also some tests for one's faith.

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Only with recent society attitude changes did the general religious mass changed their general intepretation of the bible. The bible is a selected excerpts from text written by men/women. There was a time in which its laws were sensible, and that time has certainly passed. Misintepretation of the 'laws' in the past has led to some undesired outcomes, and that's still ongoing. At least the intepretation is less favourible to certain minority groups and less socially advantaged groups. It's ironic how people take some parts word for word, when the bible itself isn't constantly correct in some of the history it presents, understandably when it's from different writers.

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Originally Posted by remember_Cedric

So, why did you study so hard for so many years? Why don't you just study, graduate and sit at home? It's like there's a start of life, then an end. For Christians, it's heaven where we'll end. For Christian who had sinned, they'll receive the necessary. besides, after that many of studies, aren't you afraid that you can't find a job or something? You give it a shot, a go, no?

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I am not seeking explanation to what a reward is and how it functions. My question is its purpose in relation to the rest of faith and love to God. You should show faith and act altruistically as a mark of your love and respect to your creator, not because your creator provides the ultimate incentive in the end. It certainly helps to attact new believers. Insecure and lost 'souls' are easily ensnared.

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Originally Posted by remember_Cedric

Oh, I'm a realist, really. I do fine without anti-biotics when I fall sick, and it has been that way. I like to hear the truth and reasoning for the worldly things. I draw a clear line between the spiritual realm and the world.

The test of patience for waiting for a result

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People don't always do fine without antibiotics. Your spiritual reasoning guide your reasoning in the real world. Your faith to a book is not completely separate to the physical world. You think you can draw a clear line, I question how clear and where the line lies, or whether it exists at all.

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Originally Posted by Trinie

Yea, there are many cases of this from what I have heard. I wonder if you guys have ever experienced "deja vu". I experience that a lot in my life. Sometimes when I am experiencing that moment I slowly forget it because I am actually living it... Also, a lot of times when I am experiencing something, it seems so familiar to me. Even certain people that I have met, it sometimes felt as if I have known them for a long time.

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One theory is that it's a result of the memory being inappropriately placed in the wrong functional area of the brain, making it percieved as long term instead of short term memory.

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Originally Posted by yittz

Look, sorry if it was offensive, I didn't mean to suggest that a whole religion was based on that idea even though it did. I was merely pointing out the absurdity of the reward.

I am aware many Christians don't shove their religion in other peoples faces. I don't have a problem with most Christians. I was refering to the idea of religion and its design. I still think it is selling an idea as people seek security and hope.

Fake Christians and bad Christians are still Christians, they are the ones that hold the rest of us back. There are only a lot more "real" Christians now because of the society they live in. And really if their belief is that strong why shouldn't they share the good news with everyone? Aren't they real altruistic people trying to get more people into heaven?

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The way I see it, perhaps they don't share is exactly because of the bad press around them, so they only share when asked to or when people actually showed genuine interest. Because unless people really want it, Christians who try to share will just end up looking silly and the people will most likely be weirded out.

Spreading the news around isn't the only way Christians can influence you too. Let me speak of an example.

I have this Filipino Catholic colleague, and we interact through yahoo messenger. She NEVER talks to me about religion, unless I bring up the subject and I sometimes do, because I have questions and doubts. She is always more than willing to indulge me (hahaha), and she has such a positive spirit I feel I've benefitted from her. And she's never sold the religion to me! If she did, it's through her wonderful personality and attitude, and understanding of how things should be like. :)

I always believed that it is not the person who is suppose to influence you, because we can't change a person, and cannot force them to do anything.

A Christian should not "preach" about their religion, but MORE IMPORTANTLY, be like Christ. A few words may not change anything, but good attitude and actions can speak a thousand words.

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Originally Posted by fridaythe13th

I always believed that it is not the person who is suppose to influence you, because we can't change a person, and cannot force them to do anything.

A Christian should not "preach" about their religion, but MORE IMPORTANTLY, be like Christ. A few words may not change anything, but good attitude and actions can speak a thousand words.

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Yes, very right.

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Originally Posted by yittz

Look, sorry if it was offensive, I didn't mean to suggest that a whole religion was based on that idea even though it did. I was merely pointing out the absurdity of the reward.

I am aware many Christians don't shove their religion in other peoples faces. I don't have a problem with most Christians. I was refering to the idea of religion and its design. I still think it is selling an idea as people seek security and hope.

Fake Christians and bad Christians are still Christians, they are the ones that hold the rest of us back. There are only a lot more "real" Christians now because of the society they live in. And really if their belief is that strong why shouldn't they share the good news with everyone? Aren't they real altruistic people trying to get more people into heaven?

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i think you're caught up in the evangelistic converty preachy side of Christianity which may turn people off.

Christianity is actually a great religion. They do lot of charity work and help the needy. There are tons of Christian relief groups all over the world helping out the sick and poor.

The Christian message is one of forgiveness and loving your neighbours (and your enemies).

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Originally Posted by Guo Xiang

The way I see it, perhaps they don't share is exactly because of the bad press around them, so they only share when asked to or when people actually showed genuine interest. Because unless people really want it, Christians who try to share will just end up looking silly and the people will most likely be weirded out.

Spreading the news around isn't the only way Christians can influence you too. Let me speak of an example.

I have this Filipino Catholic colleague, and we interact through yahoo messenger. She NEVER talks to me about religion, unless I bring up the subject and I sometimes do, because I have questions and doubts. She is always more than willing to indulge me (hahaha), and she has such a positive spirit I feel I've benefitted from her. And she's never sold the religion to me! If she did, it's through her wonderful personality and attitude, and understanding of how things should be like. :)

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Yeah. I have same experience. I've been talking to someone through GoogleTalk for a long time and has no inkling that he's a Christian until I see one comment about Christianity by him in a forum. He's a really nice helpful person and very down to earth. Not pushy at all. He only told me about his experience with God when I asked him for advice during a low period of my life. He just tell it as it is, not as a way to sell the religion or try to convert me.

And I agree on the bad press. People talk about political correctness, shouldn't make racist and sexist remarks. But, it's ok to make fun of Christians and Catholics and their faith.

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Originally Posted by Ghaleon

i think you're caught up in the evangelistic converty preachy side of Christianity which may turn people off.

Christianity is actually a great religion. They do lot of charity work and help the needy. There are tons of Christian relief groups all over the world helping out the sick and poor.

The Christian message is one of forgiveness and loving your neighbours (and your enemies).

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Haha. My best friend said that through his years of experience and observation, he found that Christians are the most helpful lot. They can really go out of their way to help and they do a lot of charities. He's not a Christian himself. He believe in Buddhism more. But, that's his observation.

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Originally Posted by fridaythe13th

A Christian should not "preach" about their religion, but MORE IMPORTANTLY, be like Christ. A few words may not change anything, but good attitude and actions can speak a thousand words.

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If a person is Christlike, the person will preach. Christ was known as "teacher," and according to the gospel accounts, he did a lot of teaching/preaching. So a Christian cannot be Christlike and not preach. But what a Christian should preach about is another matter. I do agree that actions can have tremendous impact. In fact, one Bible writer wrote that an unbeliever could be won over without a word through the good conduct of a Christian.

On the topic of life after death, do Christians only believe in hell and heaven? And like the Buddhists, do Christians believe that humans have a soul? Is soul the same as spirit? Reading some of the posts I get the impression that you guys believe that something floats out of us at death.

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Bodisattva are beings who forgoe final liberation (Nirvana) to help liberate others. It probably takes many lifetimes to cultivate that level (according to Buddhist tradition). The most popular one is Guan Yin. If u watched Journey to the West she's the one who helps out Monkey King and company the most.

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But how? How can one reach that level? I've been wanting to read up on this but have no time, not at the moment.

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It's ironic how people take some parts word for word, when the bible itself isn't constantly correct in some of the history it presents, understandably when it's from different writers.

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yittz, what histories aren't correct?

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Originally Posted by kidd

Haha. My best friend said that through his years of experience and observation, he found that Christians are the most helpful lot. They can really go out of their way to help and they do a lot of charities. He's not a Christian himself. He believe in Buddhism more. But, that's his observation.

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Yeah you will find that most Christians are very nice people. So their actions speaks more than their words. Out of all the religious groups, they are very very active in helping out others especially in charity work.

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Originally Posted by dictionary

On the topic of life after death, do Christians only believe in hell and heaven? And like the Buddhists, do Christians believe that humans have a soul? Is soul the same as spirit? Reading some of the posts I get the impression that you guys believe that something floats out of us at death.

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According to the book of Romans (in the Bible), we have a spiritual body as well as a physical one. During the Second Coming of Christ (or when heaven comes to earth), we will resurrect using our spiritual body. By this time our physical bodies would have decayed.

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But how? How can one reach that level? I've been wanting to read up on this but have no time, not at the moment.

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By following the Noble 8-Fold Path, understanding the 4 Noble Truths, studying the Sutras (Nagarjuna's philosophies of emptiness), practising mindfulness, cultivation compassion and meditation (Zazen). Cultivating compassion is important because the role of a Bodhisattva is to help liberate others.

Tibetans believe in reincarnation and they believe their Dalai Lama is an incarnation of a Bodhisattva.

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Originally Posted by Ghaleon

Yeah you will find that most Christians are very nice people. So their actions speaks more than their words. Out of all the religious groups, they are very very active in helping out others especially in charity work.



According to the book of Romans (in the Bible), we have a spiritual body as well as a physical one. During the Second Coming of Christ (or when heaven comes to earth), we will resurrect using our spiritual body. By this time our physical bodies would have decayed.



By following the Noble 8-Fold Path, understanding the 4 Noble Truths, studying the Sutras (Nagarjuna's philosophies of emptiness), practising mindfulness, cultivation compassion and meditation (Zazen). Cultivating compassion is important because the role of a Bodhisattva is to help liberate others.

Tibetans believe in reincarnation and they believe their Dalai Lama is an incarnation of a Bodhisattva.

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The thing about Christians being nice and doing nice things, I honestly see a motive to it. Sorry, not trying to say that ALL Christians are like that but I have noticed that if any of them do something nice, they expect you to convert or do something back in return. One example is one of my mom's friends. She had a son that was severely sick and was going to die. There were some Christians that had the medicine to save him. However, they said that if they saved her son then she had to let him convert to Christianity. My mom's friend then had to agree or else her son would die... I know this is only one case, but I have to say that I have seen many other cases as well. It's like a number of Christians are only nice to you because they want you to convert and be one of them. If not, then they treat you like an outsider.

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Originally Posted by dictionary

yittz, what histories aren't correct?

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The stories they told about the past. I didn't want to use story, because it makes it sound like I doubt whether it happened. Just refering to facts they presented contradicted each other.

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Originally Posted by Ghaleon

i think you're caught up in the evangelistic converty preachy side of Christianity which may turn people off.

Christianity is actually a great religion. They do lot of charity work and help the needy. There are tons of Christian relief groups all over the world helping out the sick and poor.

The Christian message is one of forgiveness and loving your neighbours (and your enemies).

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Originally Posted by Guo Xiang

The way I see it, perhaps they don't share is exactly because of the bad press around them, so they only share when asked to or when people actually showed genuine interest. Because unless people really want it, Christians who try to share will just end up looking silly and the people will most likely be weirded out.

Spreading the news around isn't the only way Christians can influence you too. Let me speak of an example.

I have this Filipino Catholic colleague, and we interact through yahoo messenger. She NEVER talks to me about religion, unless I bring up the subject and I sometimes do, because I have questions and doubts. She is always more than willing to indulge me (hahaha), and she has such a positive spirit I feel I've benefitted from her. And she's never sold the religion to me! If she did, it's through her wonderful personality and attitude, and understanding of how things should be like. :)

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Originally Posted by fridaythe13th

I always believed that it is not the person who is suppose to influence you, because we can't change a person, and cannot force them to do anything.

A Christian should not "preach" about their religion, but MORE IMPORTANTLY, be like Christ. A few words may not change anything, but good attitude and actions can speak a thousand words.

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Most of the Christians I've met, including those on this forum are all non-preachers; happy to talk if asked. I agree what you guys have posted, but it still doesn't stop me questioning.

I find it hard to believe, I do not deny the fact they've done some excellent work. If I come across as trying to wipe this religion out, then it's not intended. But just because I like certain aspects of this religion, it doesn't mean I agree with religion in general.

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Originally Posted by BearBearNweather

I have the same thought too - if there's reincarnation, where do the additional population come from?

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Other planets. We are not alone. :D

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Originally Posted by kidd

Other planets. We are not alone. :D

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Good one. I didn't think of that. :thumbsup:

I guess the thing that bothers me about Christianity (and most monotheistic religions) is that by default it is an exclusive club.

No matter how virtuous a person is in life, if they do not believe in the One God, they're punished in death. Simple as that. This says that the most vile of people in life that recant upon their death bed, and believes in God (bath optional) is saved while some poor guy who spent his entire life being good and virtuous is not. It's also my opinion that to do good without any hope of reward either in this lifetime or another is ultimately a more selfless and noble act. Now various denominations have amended this over the centuries with purgatory and "all religions are reflections of God" kind of ideas but these amendments don't have God's official seal of approval... but then neither does the Bible.

Speaking of which the Bible as we know it today isn't really from a single source. Rather it's some collection of stories gathered over the span of a few centuries, pruned and edited (by humans with political agendas). Claiming that the Bible is the infallible truth because it's divinely inspired is like saying that the various dynasties came to power because of the Mandate of Heaven.

btw: The Old Testament is actually a pretty good read -probably better than the Silmarillion. The New Testament is a bit meh.

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Originally Posted by darkcser

I guess the thing that bothers me about Christianity (and most monotheistic religions) is that by default it is an exclusive club.

No matter how virtuous a person is in life, if they do not believe in the One God, they're punished in death. Simple as that. This says that the most vile of people in life that recant upon their death bed, and believes in God (bath optional) is saved while some poor guy who spent his entire life being good and virtuous is not. It's also my opinion that to do good without any hope of reward either in this lifetime or another is ultimately a more selfless and noble act. Now various denominations have amended this over the centuries with purgatory and "all religions are reflections of God" kind of ideas but these amendments don't have God's official seal of approval... but then neither does the Bible.

Speaking of which the Bible as we know it today isn't really from a single source. Rather it's some collection of stories gathered over the span of a few centuries, pruned and edited (by humans with political agendas). Claiming that the Bible is the infallible truth because it's divinely inspired is like saying that the various dynasties came to power because of the Mandate of Heaven.

btw: The Old Testament is actually a pretty good read -probably better than the Silmarillion. The New Testament is a bit meh.

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I believe the 'believe or go to Hell' crap was made up, and maintained by institutes that wished to keep control of people. As you said, that is too exclusive and to me, even vile.

But if you notice, and if I recall correctly, Jesus helped people and so on without asking if they believed in God or rejected them if they didn't.

But no matter what, the fact was that he never rejected anyone. If that's the case, then it's clear what is the truth, and what isn't.

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Originally Posted by darkcser

I guess the thing that bothers me about Christianity (and most monotheistic religions) is that by default it is an exclusive club.

No matter how virtuous a person is in life, if they do not believe in the One God, they're punished in death. Simple as that. This says that the most vile of people in life that recant upon their death bed, and believes in God (bath optional) is saved while some poor guy who spent his entire life being good and virtuous is not. It's also my opinion that to do good without any hope of reward either in this lifetime or another is ultimately a more selfless and noble act. Now various denominations have amended this over the centuries with purgatory and "all religions are reflections of God" kind of ideas but these amendments don't have God's official seal of approval... but then neither does the Bible.

Speaking of which the Bible as we know it today isn't really from a single source. Rather it's some collection of stories gathered over the span of a few centuries, pruned and edited (by humans with political agendas). Claiming that the Bible is the infallible truth because it's divinely inspired is like saying that the various dynasties came to power because of the Mandate of Heaven.

btw: The Old Testament is actually a pretty good read -probably better than the Silmarillion. The New Testament is a bit meh.

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The books in the Bible are believed to be divinely inspired. They were written by prophets. What are prophets? They are the channel to God. Some even had the power of the Holy Spirit (called the Gift of Prophecy). Moses could call upon God to divide the Red Sea. Elijah could call upon God to send flarestorms down to earth. So these "superheroes" of God were some of the people responsible for writing the books in the Bible.

Of course you may not believe in the prophets and their miracles. That's all due to faith. Your either have the faith or you don't. Simple as that. Most (if not all) Christians believe in the Bible and believe it to be divinely inspired.