New Warriors from the Shu Mountain

[AnalyticChick]

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I vaguely remember a thread about this series floating around here. But as I can't find it, I thought I might as well start another one. Also, this looks like a mainland production, but I could be wrong about where this thread belongs.

One of the official sites is below if you want to jog your memory about what this is:
http://www.chinatv.com.tw/event/9104_sword/

So has anyone seen this series? Local channel 4 is doing a sort of marathon of the first 10 episodes today, and having nothing better to do, I got addicted to all the random fighting and CGI throwing the characters were engaging in.

Also, rather surprisingly, the characters are not irritating me. The noble and highly skilled main couple are nobly trudging their way to true love and peace for all of the WuLin. But they are doing it in a pretty unobstructive way as to not hamper my enjoyment of the rest of the series. The cute, bickering couple stay well on the side of endearing (mainly due to the guy more than the girl) instead of drifting into the shrill. The innocent, weepy girl seems truly innocent and victimized, as opposed to just pretending to be innocent. It's truly a testament to the character's effectiveness when I don't want to shake some sense into her. Also, her habit of following random guys around cracks me up.

And the bad guy is cute. Physically in the SXH pretty villian mode, but a bit grungier. Acts in the noble villian mode a la ZZZ in Book and Sword 2002, but a little more apt to lop your head off. Overall, possibly the deal breaker for this series.

Finally, does anyone know if this series has a Sina site? If so, how would I go about finding it? Thanks!

[Lady Zhuge]

I remember talking to you about this series awhile ago and telling you how the guy in green seemed to be "your type", given how much you were gushing about GL/ZZZ. I'm guessing that this might be a Taiwan production 'cause of the .tw in the official site's URL and plus Ma Jing Tao is the lead actor, but I could be wrong. Anyway, I never got to watch past the first 8 episodes or so, but it was entertaining as far as I could tell from my limited exposure.

I couldn't find a sina site on this series, but did find this.

[Trinie]

This is actually a Taiwanese production. I saw this series 2 times and actually liked it overall. The ending was a little rushed though. I think that if they added one more scene in the end, then the ending would have been perfect. But too bad they ended it a little too sudden. Ma Jing Tao is the lead and dies towards the end. Calvin Zhao is the other lead and plays his student. He is actually the lead after Ma JIng Tao dies. Calvin Zhao and Miki Lee are paired up in this series while Ma Jing Tao and Vivien Chen are paired up. Thanks for starting a thread on this series....

[AnalyticChick]

I just finished episode 10 and am still up for some marathon viewing tomorrow - which says something about this series. The random CGI fighting is a bit environment heavy for my tastes (exploding rocks, water, trees, etc), however it is very fun. I like the pairings as they are reasonable and the chemistry between the couples is good. The plot is VERY speedy, which helps move the entire show along. So even if there are plot holes or fudges or conveniences, the show never lingers on them, which helps with the general watchability.

Since I missed the first 3 episodes, I have some questions about what is going on:

So what is up with the green and red sword I see in the opening credits, and Sammi Hung no less? In general, the opening and ending credits confuse the heck out of me as I can't figure out who's who.

Also, how did the Ice Princess lose her ice mask? I see that bit in the starting sequence, but can't seem to figure out whose sword did it.

Oh, and did they ever explain WHAT the Ice palace girls are alluding to when they talk about the three generational hatred towards the South Sea boys? I mean, from Ding Ying, the South Sea sect all seem to have the proverbial stick up the behind, but are noble and righteous to a fault. I can't ever imagine them doing anything wrong, or even offensive.

Also, why is both green guy and Lie Huo calling Miao Feng uncle? How did he get that
title without being able to fight? On the topic of Shen Shan hierarchy, how did they determine their three "tou ling"s if it seems as if Green Robe just wanders around all day and doesn't help govern the sect? Plus, why is he not able to do the fire thing that characterizes Lie Huo and Hei Mian?
What exactly IS his wugong trademark? He's not ice-y like the princess, sword-y like Ding Ying, fire-y like Lie Huo or Daoist-y like the Little Moon Zhen Ren. He's got that green smoke thing going on, but seems more like a wardrobe accessory than a viable offense.

So back to Lie Huo, how is he able to change completely from a man to a woman? Anatomically, Ying Nan should have noticed something when they were embracing all those times? And how is he able to change not only his form, but also ALL of his clothing when he shape shifts?

I also have some questions about Ding Ying's cash flow situation. Namely, how he has this much. But this is more of a systemic problem with all "da xia's" in ancient series, and definitely not isolated to him.

I am additionally confused why Shen Shan guys KEEP falling for Ice Palace girls even after empirical evidence shows that it is not a good idea.

After the appearence of the fire artifact thing that everyone keeps fighting about, I must say I am amazingly unimpressed. So what exactly am I supposed to do with it? Put it on top of my christmas tree? I mean, it flashes so prettily...

Finally, who names their daughter "Ying Nan" - "Hero man"? Why didn't her parents teach her any useful skills - aside from being convincingly innocent, that is.
Here, I would like to add in some kudos for whomever was responsible for making that pairing believable. It's subtle enough that it isn't overwhelming, but with enough hints to clue the audience in.

Generally, this show is less agressive than a lot of the wuxia stuff out there. Characters are distinct, but not caricatures. Situations are dire, but not wildly so. There are rivalries, passions, secrets and lies - but as an audience member, I can see how they started and am able to follow the show's logic to their resolution.

So I am much pleased in this new find of mine.

Also, am obviously much too fixated on the green guy.

I remember talking to you about this series awhile ago and telling you how the guy in green seemed to be "your type", given how much you were gushing about GL/ZZZ.

...you know me waaaaay too well.

Seriously, it's as if the writers asked me what I would want in a character, and then implemented it. The stoicness, the intelligence, the fighting skills, the prettiness (not as much as SXH, but still respectable), the ambition, and of course the falling in love despite himself. I know that he is going to either die or become good at the end, heavy odds on the former, but I can at leasat enjoy his character until then.

Incidentally, does he or does he not have about the worst villian name imaginable. I mean, what happens when he takes his robe off? (Not like that...) Does he have to change his name?

While we are on the topic, um, do we know who the actor is? And whether he is this cute when he is not playing unsmiling, ruthless killers? Please enlighten.

[Lady Zhuge]

Who's Sammi Hung?

I think Ding Ying was the one who broke the ice princess' mask.

[AnalyticChick]

Who's Sammo Hung?

Sammo Hung, rather. Sorry for the confusion.

I am making my prediction here that the long lost son of Madame Feng and the Xiao Yue Zhen Ren is no other than Green Robe. Basically picking up on the whole "gold ring he wears that was the SAME as Xiao Yue's gold rings" thread. Also the fact that he is an orphan, and such.
Also, if it isn't him, it would have to be Shi Zhong Yu, which is very near impossible geographically. Additionally, I can't see Ding Ning or Miao Fei claiming it. Zhui Feng also doesn't seem like the type to be given a sympathetic backstory.
The ages don't exactly mesh, or rather, Green Robe's age doesn't quite mesh with the chronology. However, Xiao Yue is being so damn vague about when all this happened (anywhere from 10-30 years ago), that the writers have some wiggle room.

Since I was at my erhu class and had to miss two epys this morning, can someone tell me how the Ice palace melted, and additionally where the main couple (DY and Ice Princess) are heading? Thanks.

[Rachealyuen]

is ding ying steve ma???

[AnalyticChick]

is ding ying steve ma???

If Steve Ma is Ma Jing Tao, then yes.
By the by, is he a Hong Kong actor? Does he usually do films or series? 'Cause I really don't know who he is, though the friend I'm watching it with has heard of him.

[Lady Zhuge]

Steve Ma Jing Tao is a Taiwanese actor and he usually does series. There's a Steven Ma who is a Hong Kong actor, though.

[AnalyticChick]

So I'm about halfway done with this series...in two days due to the grueling broadcast schedule. On the whole, my previous comments stand. I think it is a well done wuxia series which is more understated than most in the genre.

However, as everyone is falling into love at this point, the show is starting to drag a bit. Personally, I can't see where they can go in DY/IP's relationship now that they have (very subtlely of course) declared their love to one another. The whole love/hate, erm, complicated triangle thing going on between Shi Zhong Yu/Li gu nian whose name I have forgotten/Ying Nan/Lu Pao seems more robust. The show can definitely get some mileage out of that now that it has set things up that way.

And is it just me, or is anyone else having a hard time with Ying Nan's character. I'm just a little unclear as to what exactly happened there. Specifically, why is she so bitter and hateful. I understand she's carrying hatred due to her parent's death, but she was still very innocent and trusting when she was originally following Lu Pao around - and that was after the incident. I get that the whole "Da Feng Ma"/Ice palace thing unhinged her a bit, but she seems to go entirely off the deep end when she gets to the Ying Mountain. Since her innocence, warm heartedness and open nature is her trademark, I'm not sure I can accept this new character. Does she ever get any better?
I mean, I enjoy a little spine in my characters, but the "new and improved" Ying Nan is too shady and flaky for my tastes.

Oh, and what is up with our favorite Christmas ornament? Since no one with any smidgen of love in their heart can figure out the secrets within(which explains why Ying Nan's parents weren't able to understand it), what good is this artifact to the Wulin? 'Cause in between slaughtering and plotting against one another, all they seem to do is alternatively fall into and then torture themselves because of love. The guys tend towards the stoic, the girls towards the weepy, but it all boils down to the same thing at the end.

Also, what's the perk in being a baddie if you can't even get a girlfriend? Even righteous boy can be macking on ice princess. Aren't the good sects supposed to teach restraint and not the evil ones?

[AnalyticChick]

Okay... Erm, why didn't anyone warn me that Lu Pao was such a bastard in this show?

It's just that his character starts out straddling the line between nobleness and baseness and every time he has a chance to make a decision, he invariably chooses the wrong one! And not because he is inherently evil or likes to make people suffer (well, not too much), but mainly because he's just too emotionally repressed and doesn't have the capacity to deal with the situation at hand.

I mean, it's like watching a train wreck. Fascinating yet chilling at the same time. Specific to what just happened (end of episode 22 between YN and LP...) - The action first reaches a point at which you're like - okay, that's kinda creepy but kinda romantic at the same time. And you have to understand that the guy is unhinged. But then, well, it just doesn't stop and it gets really wrong and really unjustifiable. And just

See, I really want the cast of Wu Yan Nu to get a load of this guy so they can stop saying that Liang Ping Wen is so evil and cold and ruthless. If we are accepting that LPW's actions in that series is utterly nefarious, we will run out of adjectives for what Lu Pao is doing. Also, to make the comparison between Zhang Zhao Zhong in B&S and Lu Pao, I have come to think of ZZZ as a noble villian and LP as a repressed villian. Thus, although some of their actions do correspond, they are coming off of and responding to different stimuli in their characters.

In other news, I was SO right in my prediction about the Xiao Yue Zhen Ren/Fu Xiao Juan/Lu Pao connection. Though I was a bit confused about why LP didn't figure out that there was a whole hidden room where he lived and had to have YN find it first. Come now, that carpet couldn't have been that all-encompassing.

Right now, Shi Zhong Yu is probably my favorite character (excepting the one that I REALLY shouldn't be sympathetic to at this point, but still secretly so am). He's just so happy and cheerful and funny and loyal. I can see why girls fall for him so readily. And now he is sad because he can't protect any of the women in his life. Poor SZY.

Miki Lee hasn't shown up very much in these last few episodes, but she is still pretty endearing. Also, I think she might be the best looking one out of the lot.

I am getting a bit annoyed at Zhui Feng. Not because of his previous crimes, which are really wrong, but somehow have become a part of him like his general evil aura. I just don't understand how a man who started out like that can hold such noble feelings in his heart for the Ice Princess, even to the detriment of his own long standing goals. It would be one thing if he is redeemed through the Ice Princess' love, but right now, he is getting romantically redeemed through the Ice Princess' sheer presence. Come on guys, she's not THAT beautiful. Besides, even if she was as attractive as you all say she is, her flawless appearence doesn't mean she is will make the best girlfriend, or wife for that matter.

Currently, Ding Ying just is - completely moral, principled and heroic just as he has been for the past wenty something episodes. His character is not going to change very much, up until he dies nobly for all of mankind. So we'll just leave him be and turn our attention to the more interesting characters.

I'm kinda fond of the Medicine girl right now. Well, general evil plans and underhanded dealings notwithstanding. Or if "fond of"' is not the right term, I enjoy watching her on screen and don't harbor much ill will towards her. Again, I think it may come back to her being such a consummate professional when it comes to either healing or hexing people.

The more I watch this series, the more I admire it for not beaning me over the head with what I should be feeling towards each character. I currently don't hate any of the villians, am not warming to DY and the Ice Princess, and think SZY and ML are endearing. But I could just as well watch this series and hate the villians with a passion, eagerly await the long destined joining of DY and Ice Princess, and find SZY and ML utterly frivolous. This kind of choice makes me happy.

[AnalyticChick]

So another Saturday afternoon, another 4 episodes. And I still really like this series.
What I said before about the inconsistencies I have found still stand. Thus Zhui Feng is dissapointing me and I really do not like the Ice Princess. Now they are all at the Kun Lun mountain and waiting for Lu Pao to attack and kill his dad, or whatever he is planning to do.

And am so much into our resident villian right now, you have no idea. Not so much because I hold fond hope that he is really a hero in disguise or that he is going to get redeemed. But mainly because he does evil things and gets away with them due to his intelligence and fighting skills.

He's such a professional villian, not given to endless monologue-ing or fits of self indulgence, or minor character flaws (petulance, complacency...) that have wrecked so many's evil aspirations in the past. Instead, he has just has these really large character flaws (hatred, lack of morals, inability to forgive people, etc. ) that have become integrated into his character. No, his character is perfect for what he wants to achieve - domination of the Wulin and revenge upon eveyone who wronged him. And it really is a lot of fun watching him achieve it.

Plus, I think the actor is pretty good too. Random Hong Kong movies aside, do we know if he's done any other series?

[Trinie]

Hi Analytic Chick,
Like I said, I actually really like this series overall. It does drag at some parts, but overall is pretty good since I did see it 2 times all the way through. Lu Pao is a bastard, but you will feel sorry for him later. You actually feel sorry for most of the villians in this series. Ying Nan is someone that you also will pity. She has been through a lot, but some of the things she does can be despicable and almost unforgivable. But you will pity her... You will also pity Zhui Feng even though he is perverted... You find out later that he truly does love Yao Zhi. I thought at first that he only liked her because she was beautiful. But you will find out that he truly loves her..... It is touching, but sad that Yao Zhi and Ding Ying can't be together when they are alive.... However, their love is so touching....

[Trinie]

Steven Ma and Steve ma are 2 different people. Sammo Hung is the old man with white hair and eyebrows at the beginning. He is the master of the founders of Yao Zhi and Ding Ying's sects. He is their Shi Zu. He owns the 2 swords and will take them back after the main villian is killed. He will appear at the end of the series to help them fight against the main villian also played by Steve Ma Jing Tao.

[AnalyticChick]

Hi Analytic Chick,
Like I said, I actually really like this series overall. It does drag at some parts, but overall is pretty good since I did see it 2 times all the way through.

Personally, I think the pacing is pretty speedy. I see the draggy parts when various people slowly fall into love, but the main plot is quite curvy and brisk. And I like the fact that this series is getting more exciting as it goes along - that's some good control of the material.

Of course, I did see "Wu Yan Nu" before and ANY wuxia show would seem well paced in comparison. And did I ever miss those spinning roundhouse kicks and flying through the air.

Lu Pao is a bastard, but you will feel sorry for him later.

Heck, I'm feeling sorry for him now!

You know - so lonely and no one loves him and has so many pent up emotions and so on. But more than that, I just like watching him on screen, whether I think he deserves to die (which he definitely does at this point) or not. I think he makes things more interesting.

You actually feel sorry for most of the villians in this series. Ying Nan is someone that you also will pity. She has been through a lot, but some of the things she does can be despicable and almost unforgivable. But you will pity her

Is Ying Nan a villian in this one? Yup, she's getting the innocence rapidly sucked out of her as the series progresses. I've already seen her "the old Yun Ying Nan is dead" scene by the lake, so an all out betrayal could be a possibility. And the part before that in which everyone she trusts betrays her. It's enough to drive a girl to the dark side.

Slight tangent here. It's been a longstanding complaint I have against ancient series (haven't watched enough modern series to judge). But why don't girls understand that when they get raped, it's NOT THEIR FAULT. At all. Especially when it happens to the most innocent and pure girl (as it invariably does) and they wonder what they have done. In a word - nothing.

You will also pity Zhui Feng even though he is perverted... You find out later that he truly does love Yao Zhi. I thought at first that he only liked her because she was beautiful. But you will find out that he truly loves her.....

Well, I just finished episode 26, and right now he is dying for her after blocking Lu Pao's attack. So I can see how much he really loves her. But I am just a little confused how he got to that point from the guy who once date raped (with his magic flute thing. ) all the girls he ran into.

By the by, does that flute make guys obey him as well, or does it just work on young, pretty girls?

It is touching, but sad that Yao Zhi and Ding Ying can't be together when they are alive.... However, their love is so touching....

...And a bit boring too.

But it's nice when the good, noble, pretty people get together. They make an entirely believable pairing. Frankly though, if anyone deserves true love and happiness in this series, it's those two.

[Lady Zhuge]

I can't participate much in this discussion since I've seen so few episodes and that was awhile ago, so all I can do is...ask questions.

AC, you've said that Lu Pao was walking a tightrope between righteousness and evil, but made the wrong decisions. Which was his worst decision and what made him decide to do whatever it is that he did instead of choosing the correct path? Is he the main villain in this show? If so, then I guess that pretty much answers my previous question. Why is he a villain worthy of pity? Was he somehow forced or influenced to do evil deeds kind of like LPW in WYN?

How did Ding Ying die and what became of the ice princess after the fact?

[Trinie]

You can't really call Ying Nan a villian, but there are times that you can really hate her.... There is one point where she said that she slept with Zhong Yu and was pregneant with HIS baby(when it was actually Lu Pao since he raped her) just so she can split her and Yi Qi up!!! But later on, she makes up for it by matching them up together.

Yea, that flute makes girls follow him. I did find it strange that he raped so many girls and truly loves Yao Zhi now. I do feel sorry for the medicine girl too since she loved him so much. She even dies with him later on after he does. He even gave up his heart(whatever you call it) for Yao Zhi even though he knows he was going to die because of it. It was really sad when he did. I guess Yao Zhi was touched and felt sorry for him so she married him before he died. He died on their wedding night.

About Lu Pao, he killed both of his parents so that is one thing that you can't forgive him for. But at the same time, you also feel sorry for him... Especially when he was going to die...

I don't remember how Ding Ying died... But I remember that Yao Zhi fell apart after that and died because of the fact that he did. She couldn't live without him. It was really sad.

The ending to this series was a little rushed too. It could have been a lot better if they just added one last scene, then it would have been perfect....

[AnalyticChick]

I can't participate much in this discussion since I've seen so few episodes and that was awhile ago, so all I can do is...ask questions.

Questions are good! I like questions - beats talking to myself at any rate.

AC, you've said that Lu Pao was walking a tightrope between righteousness and evil, but made the wrong decisions. Which was his worst decision and what made him decide to do whatever it is that he did instead of choosing the correct path?

Well, before this episode, I would probably say it's raping Ying Nan. Again, that was follwing a slight - "everyone leaves me, YOU can't leave me too" moment. But now, it's deifnitely gotta be killing his dad. For good measure, he also killed his mom. So yeah, DEFINITELY not getting redeemed.

With the whole patricide thing, it followed a period in which he got humbled, talked to by his shi fu many times, and seemed like he was about to renounce evil. We even get a lot of sympathetic shots of him by his mom's grave. (Side note here, he so reminded me of SXH when he has his hair down). You're like - okay, I understand he has done bad things in the past, but maybe, just maybe, he can give all that up? And then his dad comes and they talk. Or rather, his dad talks and he beats him up. And then kills him. And you're like oh , you're just a cold hearted bastard.

Is he the main villain in this show? If so, then I guess that pretty much answers my previous question. Why is he a villain worthy of pity? Was he somehow forced or influenced to do evil deeds kind of like LPW in WYN?

Yup, main villian cachet right here. At first, I didn't think he would be as he starts out more stoic than evil. Pretty soon, you realize this guy has absolutely no humanity whatsoever. That lack of human emotions stirs my pity - the fact that he does evil things not particularily because he enjoys them, but because he, at some level, doesn't understand how wrong evil is. That he sees no reason in being even borderline good, or barring that, not hurting people.

He's got a loaded backstory - dad abandoned mom when she was pregnant, he got taken away by mom's new husband to seperate the two of them, and got manipulated by the husband/his shi fu who was planning to kill him. And so he's just REALLY messed up.

On another level, I think he's cute. As well, I think the character is attractive while being at the same time a complete reprobate. I also like the actor and what he is doing with the role. As heartless as he sounds, the actor who did Lu Pao could have made him even more so - basically never showing any emotion whatsoever and just habitually killing the people closest to him. But it's those ever so brief flashes of what Lu Pao could been - how wonderful and talented and skilled he could have been if he wasn't so evil, that really get me.

There is one point where she said that she slept with Zhong Yu and was pregneant with HIS baby(when it was actually Lu Pao since he raped her) just so she can split her and Yi Qi up!!! But later on, she makes up for it by matching them up together.

She's pregnant? Oh God...
This abundant fertility is fast becoming a wuxia cliche. See Feng Yun for more empirical evidence. Were people just more apt to get pregnant in ancient times? For crying out loud...

As I'm typing this, Zhui Feng is very tenderly (and slowly) dying in the background with Yao Chi watching over him. The main theme is oh so softly swelling in the background. Everyone's crying. I don't know how much more of this I can take.

About Lu Pao, he killed both of his parents so that is one thing that you can't forgive him for. But at the same time, you also feel sorry for him... Especially when he was going to die...

..And raping Ying Nan, and killing everything that crossed his path, and generally being a complete bastard. Still, I know I'm going to be sad when he dies.

[shanghai girls are hot]

I have this series on tape. it's good with the exception of the Steve Ma and Vivian Chen characters; they were very irritated and excrutiating to watch. the relationship between the main character and the girl that tags along him is rather fun to watch. Lu Pao is cool. Ying Nan is pretty. this series woulda been better if they took out Steve Ma, Vivian Chen, and Sammo Hung; they totally suck. also actual hand to hand combat rather than 2 swords flying around kills everyone woulda been better.

[AnalyticChick]

I have this series on tape. it's good with the exception of the Steve Ma and Vivian Chen characters; they were very irritated and excrutiating to watch.

Would that be our noble hero Ding Ying and his intended, Yao Chi? If so, I completely concur. Can't they be good and perfect somewhere else? Preferably in another series. Far away from me.

Also, is the really bad guy in black also played by Ma Jing Tao as well? They look similar.
It was hilarious when the good guys wanted to destroy the evil artifact, and instead let loose the really old evil demon. Okay, probably not as hilarious for the characters who now have to deal with said demon, and Lu Pao will probably die at his hand (since Ding Ying can't kill him at this point and he needs to die before the credits roll), but irony distilled nonetheless.

the relationship between the main character and the girl that tags along him is rather fun to watch.

Amazingly enough, their relationship has stayed the same for umpteenth episodes, but it is not getting boring yet. Probably because it is so much more interesting than what Ding Ying and Yao Chi are doing together. Also, Lu Pao/Ying Nan is interesting, but hella creepy.

Lu Pao is cool. Ying Nan is pretty. this series woulda been better if they took out Steve Ma, Vivian Chen, and Sammo Hung; they totally suck. also actual hand to hand combat rather than 2 swords flying around kills everyone woulda been better.

Lu Pao is pretty cool. But I just feel bad for liking his character especially since everything he is doing recently has me asking - "What the hell is wrong with this guy?" and "Whay is he so messed up?"

And is it just me, or has Ying Nan gotten prettier as she has gotten more evil? In her evil sect leader costume, she is easily the prettiest girl in the cast.

Since I haven't actually seen Sammo Hung yet (though his name is prominently in the credits...), I can't say anything as to his level of irritation in this series. And Ding Ying's swords it a bit cheesy, as are the mutlicolored explosion and various other CGI enhanced special moves. But for a wuxia fantasy series, believe you me that I've seen worst.

Oh, on the Lu Pao "WTF" front. The latest came at the end of the last episode when he wants to kill Ying Nan because she is pregnant with his kid.

Seriously - this guy is basically a string of "WTF" moments at this point, you know - why did he rape Ying Nan, why did he kill his mom, why did he kill his dad, why is he trying to kill his teacher, why did he kill Zhui Feng, why is he having delusions of grandeur of uniting the Wulin, why is he so into poisoning everyone, and so on.
Most importantly, why do I like the character so much? It's getting to be a problem - really.