7 Cheun Jen Taoists + 6 Freaks vs. a Great

[Ken Cheng]

In LEGEND OF THE CONDOR HEROES, there was nearly a confrontation between not only the Cheun Jen 7 Taoists and East Heretic Wong Yerk See, but the Gong Nam 6 Freaks as well. The 6 Freaks arrived too late for this melee, but it might have been interesting had it played out.

The Gong Nam 6 Freaks, individually, were not particularly strong fighters in the overall scheme of things. Nevertheless, they were not pushovers, and collectively, could be a force to reckon with for anyone short of the Greats (Mui Chiu Fung could defeat them, but it was never easy).

So, Cheun Jen 7 Taoists with their Big Dipper Formation backed up by the Gong Nam 6 Freaks against Wong Yerk See: would the Freaks make a difference, or would they just be flute fodder for Wong Yerk See? As comparatively weak as they were, it's difficult to imagine that nearly doubling the number of enemies Wong Yerk See was facing would have made *no* difference at all.

[Xiao Feng]

They'd just be in the way of the taoists. Unless they knew the big dipper formation and coordinated their attack to assist the taoists.

[babyblues]

I would like to think that Wong Yeurk See was on a totally higher realm of martial arts compared to them. I think the 6 freaks were alright fighters but not superior. They had no co-ordination. their advantage was in their various skills and numbers. So most people when fight with them, even if more superior if one on one, will take longer effort to win them. It will be thot of as sneaky cos they always outnumber their enemy but they redeem themselves by also having the same number fighting a bigger group. so it's 6 vs 1 and also 6 vs 13. But then again, where got such a big number of people going around fighting pple except for them?

I think the Chuen Zhan Yao Chu Gei was a better fighter than the 6 freaks. remember, he was injured when fighting with 7 freaks at beginning. But they were also injured. Plus, he was at the same time concerned and distracted over Li Ping being abducted away. So, to me Cheun Zhan 7 were higher skilled than the 6 freaks. Although not exceedingly higher lah. Cos Yao Chu Gei was supposed to be the highest skilled amongst them.

Anyway, the Chuen Zhan 7 also cannot beat their uncle Zhou Bo Tong. He is supposed to be higher skilled than all of them but also not as highly skilled as his dead elder brother, the 7's teacher. And Wong Yuerk See is of the level of the 7's teacher.

So to me, Chuen Zhan 7 is 2 levels below Wong Yuerk See. The 6 freaks are even lower. Add them altogether, I think Wong Yurk See won't even bother about them. His superior intellect, mastery of all those formations and puzzles will mean he can defeat them. The dipper formation may be good for them to at least defend themselves but to win him, doubt it. 6 freaks are not worth mentioning. No help at all. He can take them down in a minute. And eventually, he will find the loophole in the dipper formation. Cos the formation is only as good as the people doing it. If they are distracted or pushed out of position by him in anyway, he will win.

[xuelian]

Anyway, the Chuen Zhan 7 also cannot beat their uncle Zhou Bo Tong. He is supposed to be higher skilled than all of them but also not as highly skilled as his dead elder brother, the 7's teacher. And Wong Yuerk See is of the level of the 7's teacher.

I beg to differ. I think WCY was above HYS, while HYS should be around Zhou Bo Tong's level. HYS might be able to win ZBT, but only slightly. I remember somebody making a reference in LOCH at Huashan about the 5 best existing martial artists - Dong Xie, Xi Du, Nan Di, Bei Gai, and Lao Wan Tong Zhou Bo Tong. ZBT's martial arts improved leaps and bounds while he was imprisoned in Peach Blossom Island. While I will not say that ZBT can defeat the 4 Greats easily, I will say that all 5 of them are similar in level. This is subtly acknowledged throughout the story.

The Quan Zhen 7, besides Qiu Chu Ji, are worthless if they leave the Big Dipper Formation. But together, they still pose a threat. HYS should have at least a 95% chance of defeating the Quan Zhen 7, while guaranteeing a 100% chance of defeating the 6 freaks. With the QZ7, HYS will have an easier time breaking their formation since their attack is strictly coordinated and as one body. However, if you add in the 6 freaks into the equation, HYS now has 7 different styles and moves to deal with, which will make things a lot more difficult.

The 6 freaks being there might both help and hinder the taoists. On one hand, they might get in the way of the Dipper coordination. On the other, they can distract HYS by splitting his attention and concentration away from the Dipper - thus making it a lot more difficult to break.

[Ken Cheng]

The 6 freaks being there might both help and hinder the taoists. On one hand, they might get in the way of the Dipper coordination. On the other, they can distract HYS by splitting his attention and concentration away from the Dipper - thus making it a lot more difficult to break.

This is what I think as well. Although the Freaks were not innately much of a threat to a Greats-level fighter like Wong Yerk See, he could not afford to just ignore them. If they are there, they must be contended with. The Cheun Jen 7 Disciples' Big Dipper Formation *can* match or even defeat a Great if used properly, so Wong Yerk See cannot afford to make any mistakes. The Freaks would likely all be killed, but even so, they can still run enough interference to create an opening in Wong Yerk See's defenses that the Cheun Jen Disciples can exploit.

[Ren Wo Xing]

6 Freaks and 7 Taoists=7 Taoists.

Remember, Huang Yaoshi's ultimate skill is a PROJECTILE type. Tanzhi Shentong, Divine Flicking Fingers. Six stone flicks afterwards, and the 6 Freaks would've gone bye bye.

[Doughboy]

I think WCY is a level higher than HYS, while ZBT is a close match for HYS.

Before GJ was born, the seven freaks together were about the equivalent of QCJ. It is difficult to determine how the seven freaks less one freak would match up with QCJ twenty years later.

Returning to the topic, I am inclined to believe that HYS would still win even with the seven taoists and six freaks combined.

[babyblues]

I beg to differ. I think WCY was above HYS, while HYS should be around Zhou Bo Tong's level. HYS might be able to win ZBT, but only slightly. I remember somebody making a reference in LOCH at Huashan about the 5 best existing martial artists - Dong Xie, Xi Du, Nan Di, Bei Gai, and Lao Wan Tong Zhou Bo Tong. ZBT's martial arts improved leaps and bounds while he was imprisoned in Peach Blossom Island. While I will not say that ZBT can defeat the 4 Greats easily, I will say that all 5 of them are similar in level. This is subtly acknowledged throughout the story.

Yes, I acknowledge that at the end of the novel, Zhou Botong is on par with Wong Yeurk See cos he learn 9 Yin and also to split his mind to fight like 2 persons. But I'm saying before he improved, he was below Wong CHong Yong. Wong Chong Yong was only marginally above Wong Yuerk See. Furthermore, the fact that Zhou Botong was not on the original great list means he was below Wong Yuerk See. The 5 great were Dong Xie, Xi Du, Nan Di, Bei Gai and Zhong Shen Tong (this is Wong CHong Yang) AMongst the 5 of them, the highest skilled was Wong Chong Yong therefore he got to keep the 9 Yin Zhen Jin. Cos it was agreed the winner gets to keep the 9 Yin to safeguard it from falling into bad people's hands.

Anyway, my view is similar to Ren Wo Xing. Wong Yeurk See is very clever. He would simply disable the 6 freaks quickly. Not a chore to him at all. then he'll most probably concentrate on the taoists.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Note; at NO time did ALL seven of the Freaks fight Qiu Chuji at the same time. They were trying to fight him at pairs, then in triplets, etc. etc. The most on him at a single time was five (with two disabled earlier), which resulted in mutual defeat. All seven at one time, the Son of the Eternal Springs would've been defeated.