Heavenly Sword and Dragon Saber 2003 - Y Thien Do Long Ky 2003.

[lilviet_grl8o8]

ahh.. too much chinese acronyms. <33 [: i so understand it thought.

[sunnysnow]

Wait...why does ZZR have three wishes? When did that happen?

Now, ZM's done some evil things, but I hate it when people use others.

As smart as ZM is, she cannot beat ZZR when it comes to manipulating people

And no, ZZR doesnt have three wishes, she just requested a wish from ZWJ in which he agreed. At the end of the novel, she turns up and tells ZWJ that she hasn't thought of a wish yet but she might think of one during his wedding night with ZM (just like how ZM thought of a wish during her wedding with ZWJ).

[Sparky]

As smart as ZM is, she cannot beat ZZR when it comes to manipulating people

And no, ZZR doesnt have three wishes, she just requested a wish from ZWJ in which he agreed. At the end of the novel, she turns up and tells ZWJ that she hasn't thought of a wish yet but she might think of one during his wedding night with ZM (just like how ZM thought of a wish during her wedding with ZWJ).

Maybe ZM is just nicer, after all, last time I checked being manipulative was a bad thing :P

I'd actually feel bad for ZZR if it wasn't for a few things...

First off, she really really scared me after her "wedding" w/ ZWJ. That look she has. That...presence. Scarier than Miejue...after that, whenever ZZR came on I was just afraid she'd snap someone's neck or something...good acting on Gao Yuanyuan's part, but the evil ZZR was too scary for my liking. Well, I guess "liking" doesn't really fit ZZR.

Secondly, obviously her wedding with ZWJ shouldn't have worked out since she basically mislead ZWJ into it. ZZR deserved it. If ZWJ knew that it was her who had "killed" A Li and stole the Tu Long Dao from Xie Xun, rather than ZM, he would have NEVER married her. ZM was not stealing ZWJ away from the wedding, she was saving him.

[resident:alien]

Ah-Li > All

[lilviet_grl8o8]

Secondly, obviously her wedding with ZWJ shouldn't have worked out since she basically mislead ZWJ into it. ZZR deserved it. If ZWJ knew that it was her who had "killed" A Li and stole the Tu Long Dao from Xie Xun, rather than ZM, he would have NEVER married her. ZM was not stealing ZWJ away from the wedding, she was saving him.

so trueee =] ZZR/ Trieu Tri Nhut? (practicing viet) she was so manipulative, she`s second in the villain`s list for meee. PROPS to jin yong, for coming up with best villains. [: lol. my heart/stomach like dropped when i found out what she did, poisoning everyone.. then blaming it on ZM/Tieu Manh. AHHH!! shocked me forreal.

but hey, i would have done the same if there was a spirit following me around, except i don`t know. i`m too nice [: lol

[Sugar]

so trueee =] ZZR/ Trieu Tri Nhut? (practicing viet) she was so manipulative, she`s second in the villain`s list for meee. PROPS to jin yong, for coming up with best villains. [: lol. my heart/stomach like dropped when i found out what she did, poisoning everyone.. then blaming it on ZM/Tieu Manh. AHHH!! shocked me forreal.

but hey, i would have done the same if there was a spirit following me around, except i don`t know. i`m too nice [: lol

Chu Chi Nuoc= ZZR

Trieu Minh/Man= ZM


I think this adaption did not make ZZR look like a villan at all.. more like someone who went into the wrong path a bit but went out of it.

[sunnysnow]

Maybe ZM is just nicer, after all, last time I checked being manipulative was a bad thing :P

ZM isn't exactly nicer than ZZR. She can be very cunning if she wants to, like in the beginning, it's just that unlike ZZR, she wasn't that hungry for power and overly ambitious. Loving ZWJ did change her character, unlike for ZZR..

First off, she really really scared me after her "wedding" w/ ZWJ. That look she has. That...presence. Scarier than Miejue...after that, whenever ZZR came on I was just afraid she'd snap someone's neck or something...good acting on Gao Yuanyuan's part, but the evil ZZR was too scary for my liking. Well, I guess "liking" doesn't really fit ZZR.

If you're into sweet and adorable characters, than ZZR is most probably not your cup of tea. People who like ZZR actually like her for her brains and complex character.

Secondly, obviously her wedding with ZWJ shouldn't have worked out since she basically mislead ZWJ into it. ZZR deserved it. If ZWJ knew that it was her who had "killed" A Li and stole the Tu Long Dao from Xie Xun, rather than ZM, he would have NEVER married her. ZM was not stealing ZWJ away from the wedding, she was saving him.

Come to think of it, ZM wasn't exactly saving ZWJ, more like fulfilling her wish of not letting ZWJ marry ZZR. ZM is not exactly the angel, she is an insistent and determined woman who would go all the way to fulfill her own wants. Keep in mnd that she's also a smart woman and she knew exactly what would deter ZWJ from marrying ZZR, which was Xie Xun's whereabouts. I suspect ZM also calculated that ZZR would go insanely jealous and refuse to marry ZWJ even at a later date because ZZR is one who is very sensitive about "face".

I think this adaption did not make ZZR look like a villan at all.. more like someone who went into the wrong path a bit but went out of it.

HSDS'03 did a much more sympathetic portrayal of ZZR. ZZR in this adaptation seems almost pitiful and poigant. She wasn't half as nice in the novel.

[Sparky]

I do prefer ZM over ZZR, but more importantly, I prefer ZM with ZWJ. Which is basically what it's about. ZZR didn't love ZWJ as much. She'd give him up for a sifu that's dead. Meanwhile, ZM had equal pressures - her father wanted her to kill ZWJ, but once ZM set her eyes on ZWJ, she never changed her mind.

If you're into sweet and adorable characters, than ZZR is most probably not your cup of tea. People who like ZZR actually like her for her brains and complex character.

Okay, well I agree ZZR is probably not someone I'd like a whole lot, but I just don't really get how she is likeable to begin with. And it's not 100% because of her sifu's influence, since in the end, it was ZZR who did it. I'm not completely against someone if they're not sweet or adorable (it has a certain effect on me, but it's not cool if the character's one-dimensionally cute or something like that). ZM's sweet and adorable when she wants to be, but I also like her cunningness and intelligence. She really only becomes a softie when she falls for ZWJ.

Come to think of it, ZM wasn't exactly saving ZWJ, more like fulfilling her wish of not letting ZWJ marry ZZR. ZM is not exactly the angel, she is an insistent and determined woman who would go all the way to fulfill her own wants. Keep in mnd that she's also a smart woman and she knew exactly what would deter ZWJ from marrying ZZR, which was Xie Xun's whereabouts. I suspect ZM also calculated that ZZR would go insanely jealous and refuse to marry ZWJ even at a later date because ZZR is one who is very sensitive about "face".

I agree ZM probably wasn't doing it for ZWJ and probably did do it for herself, but in the process she did save ZWJ. Seriously, how happy do you think ZWJ would've been marrying ZZR and THEN finding out all that she did? I don't think he'd be jumping for joy about his marriage. While I understand it hurtful and shameful for ZZR, she deserved it.

But I almost like her selfishness, and that passion/sincerity/stubbornness she has towards ZWJ. If ZWJ left ZM at the wedding, ZM would hate him for it but probably
would keep on loving him and not plot to kill him/hurt his loved ones.

[bellamia]

In many ways, I think that ZM & ZZR are very similar. Both are beautiful & intelligence and yet at the same time both are capable of cruelty& evil doing. However, the difference between these two is the degree that they love ZWJ. Once ZM met ZWJ she changed 360 degrees. She defied her family & her country to be with him. In essence, she was willing to sacrifice everything to be with him…I think this is close to unconditional love as it gets.

ZZR on the other hand also loves ZWJ; I have no doubt about this. However, I always felt that she did not love him enough. There is always the shadow of her Sufu in the background haunting her, thus, prevented her to be completely true to herself & to ZWJ.

Originally Posted by sunnysnow
Come to think of it, ZM wasn't exactly saving ZWJ, more like fulfilling her wish of not letting ZWJ marry ZZR. ZM is not exactly the angel, she is an insistent and determined woman who would go all the way to fulfill her own wants. Keep in mnd that she's also a smart woman and she knew exactly what would deter ZWJ from marrying ZZR, which was Xie Xun's whereabouts. I suspect ZM also calculated that ZZR would go insanely jealous and refuse to marry ZWJ even at a later date because ZZR is one who is very sensitive about "face".

Whether ZM had pure intention of saving ZWJ or just selfishly set out to separate ZWJ & ZZR, I still give her much credit for her act of courage. It takes a lot to walk into a room full of people who hate you & on top of that try to stop a wedding. At that point, I was convinced of ZM's love for ZWJ because all of her actions toward him show that she had nothing to gain but everything to loose.

[crazylife123]

In many ways, I think that ZM & ZZR are very similar. Both are beautiful & intelligence and yet at the same time both are capable of cruelty& evil doing. However, the difference between these two is the degree that they love ZWJ. Once ZM met ZWJ she changed 360 degrees. She defied her family & her country to be with him. In essence, she was willing to sacrifice everything to be with him…I think this is close to unconditional love as it gets.

ZZR on the other hand also loves ZWJ; I have no doubt about this. However, I always felt that she did not love him enough. There is always the shadow of her Sufu in the background haunting her, thus, prevented her to be completely true to herself & to ZWJ.

have to agree with you on this right here....

if zzr really love zwj, she would forget about her teacher and risk everything for her lover. zm did...

[sunnysnow]

I do prefer ZM over ZZR, but more importantly, I prefer ZM with ZWJ. Which is basically what it's about. ZZR didn't love ZWJ as much. She'd give him up for a sifu that's dead. Meanwhile, ZM had equal pressures - her father wanted her to kill ZWJ, but once ZM set her eyes on ZWJ, she never changed her mind.

ZZR was not as sacrificial as ZM, she was ambitious as well. In the novel she was driven more by power but GYY's portrayal made ZZR more pitiful because her teacher seems to haunt and influence her more in this adapation.

Okay, well I agree ZZR is probably not someone I'd like a whole lot, but I just don't really get how she is likeable to begin with. And it's not 100% because of her sifu's influence, since in the end, it was ZZR who did it. I'm not completely against someone if they're not sweet or adorable (it has a certain effect on me, but it's not cool if the character's one-dimensionally cute or something like that). ZM's sweet and adorable when she wants to be, but I also like her cunningness and intelligence. She really only becomes a softie when she falls for ZWJ.

I never really like ZZR when i read the novel but i do agree with people who like her that she's a very smart woman and has certain complexities to her character, much more so than ZM. In fact, her character is very subjective, people can view her either as good, neutral or evil.

ZM was cool and stuff in the beginning, but really, she turns sort of passive, bland and one-dimensional (sweet and loving nonetheless) after she falls for ZWJ.

I agree ZM probably wasn't doing it for ZWJ and probably did do it for herself, but in the process she did save ZWJ. Seriously, how happy do you think ZWJ would've been marrying ZZR and THEN finding out all that she did? I don't think he'd be jumping for joy about his marriage. While I understand it hurtful and shameful for ZZR, she deserved it.

Whether ZZR deserved it is not for ZM to decide. In the end, ZM was still doing it not because of pure intentions, like to do good for ZWJ and the wulin world etc. She was basically doing it because she did not want ZWJ to marry ZZR. Even if ZZR was a nice girl..or say he was going to marry someone like Xiao Zhao, I suspect ZM will still do it because she is a very insistent and determined character.

But I almost like her selfishness, and that passion/sincerity/stubbornness she has towards ZWJ. If ZWJ left ZM at the wedding, ZM would hate him for it but probably
would keep on loving him and not plot to kill him/hurt his loved ones.

You never know...to be left like a fool at the altar in front of so many guests is no is no small matter. It isn't in ZM's character to take things laying, especially when it comes to ZWJ.

Whether ZM had pure intention of saving ZWJ or just selfishly set out to separate ZWJ & ZZR, I still give her much credit for her act of courage. It takes a lot to walk into a room full of people who hate you & on top of that try to stop a wedding. At that point, I was convinced of ZM's love for ZWJ because all of her actions toward him show that she had nothing to gain but everything to loose.

ZM was never a weak or nervous character to begin with. If anything, she's confident and daring, especially when it comes to love. Given her character, I can definitely picture her stopping a wedding. I don't really give ZM the props for stopping the wedding in such a fashion. Basically, she wants to satisfy her own needs and to shame ZZR in such a manner that the latter would be so mad at ZWJ that she would never want to consummate their marriage again. Why else would she not appear earlier, before the wedding or something, instead of directly at the moment ZZR and ZWJ take their vows? ZM knows ZZR's jealous nature as well as has taken everything into consideration. If ZWJ were marrying a less jealous and spiteful character like Xiao Zhao, ZM would have used some other method because XZ is not as unreasonable to not let ZWJ leave and consummate their marriage at a later date.

[GuGu]

i finally have time to watch this series, currently on episode 17. i have to say that all the girls in here are so PRETTY! I mean seriously, EVERY SINGLE GIRL IN HERE IS BEAUTIFUL IN THEIR OWN WAY! maybe it had a lot to do with make-up, hair style, and clothing.

okay, one thing i want to ask is.. is Zhang Wuji suppose to have that kinda perverted look when he sees the girls? i mean, the first time he saw any of the girls well besides his cousin, he would just look at them as if his eyes were going to pop out! the first time he saw Xiao Zhao when her face cleared up, it looked like he was thinking of inappropriate thoughts, same as when he saw the rest of the female casts. i don't remember the other versions where Zhang Wuji was this mesmerized by the females in the story.

I have to add that Zhao Min is very cute in here right now, when she is still a 'bad' person, i don't want to see her get weaker and cry for Zhang Wuji! i just saw the part where she tried to trap Zhang Wuji and he pulled her down with him, and she wouldn't tell him how to get out so he tickled her. it was funny. again, when he was putting her sock back on, he looked like he was thinking inappropriately, didn't he do it to just force Zhao Min to tell him how to get out? it seemed like he enjoyed it too much.

and with the debate of ZZR being evil, i don't know why but i don't like ZZR from the start. she stabbed Zhang Wuji knowing that it was Zhang Wuji, just because she was told to do it. i mean Zhang Wuji didn't kick her *** when she was grabbing the sword like how he kicked the other girls. at that point she should of had told them all who zhang wuji was.

plus i understand why zhang wuji would be much more happier and i think i'm safe to say that he only loved zhao min in that kind of way, is because zhao min at least smiled and teased zhang wuji every now and then. but zzr is without any expression even with zhang wuji she always looked like she had something bothering her all the time! so i agree that zhao min was 'saving' zhang wuji when she stopped the wedding.

[crazylife123]

i finally have time to watch this series, currently on episode 17. i have to say that all the girls in here are so PRETTY! I mean seriously, EVERY SINGLE GIRL IN HERE IS BEAUTIFUL IN THEIR OWN WAY! maybe it had a lot to do with make-up, hair style, and clothing.

okay, one thing i want to ask is.. is Zhang Wuji suppose to have that kinda perverted look when he sees the girls? i mean, the first time he saw any of the girls well besides his cousin, he would just look at them as if his eyes were going to pop out! the first time he saw Xiao Zhao when her face cleared up, it looked like he was thinking of inappropriate thoughts, same as when he saw the rest of the female casts. i don't remember the other versions where Zhang Wuji was this mesmerized by the females in the story.

I have to add that Zhao Min is very cute in here right now, when she is still a 'bad' person, i don't want to see her get weaker and cry for Zhang Wuji! i just saw the part where she tried to trap Zhang Wuji and he pulled her down with him, and she wouldn't tell him how to get out so he tickled her. it was funny. again, when he was putting her sock back on, he looked like he was thinking inappropriately, didn't he do it to just force Zhao Min to tell him how to get out? it seemed like he enjoyed it too much.

and with the debate of ZZR being evil, i don't know why but i don't like ZZR from the start. she stabbed Zhang Wuji knowing that it was Zhang Wuji, just because she was told to do it. i mean Zhang Wuji didn't kick her *** when she was grabbing the sword like how he kicked the other girls. at that point she should of had told them all who zhang wuji was.

plus i understand why zhang wuji would be much more happier and i think i'm safe to say that he only loved zhao min in that kind of way, is because zhao min at least smiled and teased zhang wuji every now and then. but zzr is without any expression even with zhang wuji she always looked like she had something bothering her all the time! so i agree that zhao min was 'saving' zhang wuji when she stopped the wedding.

you could say opposite attracts. if zwj were to ever get with zzr, he would marry her but cheat on her with zm.

[GuGu]

you could say opposite attracts. if zwj were to ever get with zzr, he would marry her but cheat on her with zm.

hahahaha and i wonder what would happen if zzr found out? i say this because zzr can kick zm's butt in a fight. zm would be killed and thrown off a cliff somewhere and zzr would frame it on the next girl that dares to come into zhang wuji's life. but i doubt that zm would ever go for that. she is after all from a royal family. she would probably go back home and live a good life, and maybe who knows, she might send some of her people to give zzr and zhang wuji trouble

[bellamia]

Origionally Posted by sunnysnow

ZM was never a weak or nervous character to begin with. If anything, she's confident and daring, especially when it comes to love. Given her character, I can definitely picture her stopping a wedding. I don't really give ZM the props for stopping the wedding in such a fashion. Basically, she wants to satisfy her own needs and to shame ZZR in such a manner that the latter would be so mad at ZWJ that she would never want to consummate their marriage again. Why else would she not appear earlier, before the wedding or something, instead of directly at the moment ZZR and ZWJ take their vows? ZM knows ZZR's jealous nature as well as has taken everything into consideration. If ZWJ were marrying a less jealous and spiteful character like Xiao Zhao, ZM would have used some other method because XZ is not as unreasonable to not let ZWJ leave and consummate their marriage at a later date.[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry, but was there a preparation scene before the wedding? All I remembered was that ZM's brother informed her of ZWJ & ZZR wedding and ZM was surprised at the news. The next scene was the wedding scene, in which, ZM interrupted. Perhaps, ZM didn't know about the wedding news advance enough to stop ZWJ from marrying ZZR before the date itself. Nevertheless, regardless of her intention, it was still the right thing to do because she knew that ZZR was not as innocence as she portrayed herself to be. After all, ZM knew what ZZR did to her & to Ah Li. I would not be so supportive of her if she didn't take every measure neccessary to save ZWJ from marrying ZZR.

What ZZR did on the island & her constant lies afterward made me loss all respect & feeling for her. She does not deserve any better than what ZM did to her at the wedding. For heaven sakes, she killed Ah Li, took both swords, framed ZM for the crime, and now ZM is supoosed to play nice and save face for her....pleaseeeeeeeee!

[wuxiagurl]

hmm, i dont know the story that well, but i think the first time zhou zhiruo met zhao min is when they're all captured in the pagoda, right? so basically in zzr's perspective, from the moment she knew zm, zm stole her shifu's inherited weapon (the heavenly sword), wanted to cut up zzr's face for no apparent reason, caused the death of many of the righteous sect ppl, especially her beloved shifu. basically zhao min = evil incarnate. not that killing ah li is something zzr's proud of, but things like stealing the sword and saber back (partly to defend the Song empire from the evil Mongolians), probably sounds reasonable (not like xie xun will give up the saber to anyone, even if its for the greater good or if she asks nicely). and who better to push the blame to than zm, the person who started all this bad stuff, caused all her problems, her sworn enemy in both public and personal matters?

yeah, so i'm totally just guessing what zzr would be feeling, and her rationale for her actions. but yeah, i'm biased cause i fell in love with the sweet & lovely zzr that gao yuan yuan portrayed. but towards the end when zm became nicer and selfless, she was a lot more attractive than the evil zzr.

[sunnysnow]

I'm sorry, but was there a preparation scene before the wedding? All I remembered was that ZM's brother informed her of ZWJ & ZZR wedding and ZM was surprised at the news. The next scene was the wedding scene, in which, ZM interrupted. Perhaps, ZM didn't know about the wedding news advance enough to stop ZWJ from marrying ZZR before the date itself. Nevertheless, regardless of her intention, it was still the right thing to do because she knew that ZZR was not as innocence as she portrayed herself to be. After all, ZM knew what ZZR did to her & to Ah Li. I would not be so supportive of her if she didn't take every measure neccessary to save ZWJ from marrying ZZR.

What ZZR did on the island & her constant lies afterward made me loss all respect & feeling for her. She does not deserve any better than what ZM did to her at the wedding. For heaven sakes, she killed Ah Li, took both swords, framed ZM for the crime, and now ZM is supoosed to play nice and save face for her....pleaseeeeeeeee!

Seriously, given ZM's character, I think she'll still stop the wedding even if she had no knowledge of ZZR's evil doings. And yes, ZM had time to show up before ZWJ and ZZR said their vows, but it would probably not make ZZR as furious and embarrased had she turned up right during the ceremony. ZM is not dumb, she knows tt ZZR would probably let ZWJ leave and search for XX if the ceremony hasn't even started yet. It's one thing having the groom postpone the wedding before the official ceremony starts but it's a different thing altogether if the groom leaves in the middle of the ceremony with tons of guests staring.

What ZZR did on the island & her constant lies afterward made me loss all respect & feeling for her. She does not deserve any better than what ZM did to her at the wedding. For heaven sakes, she killed Ah Li, took both swords, framed ZM for the crime, and now ZM is supoosed to play nice and save face for her....pleaseeeeeeeee!

Oh please, I've never stated that ZM is supposed to play all nice and save face for ZZR, which is probably the last thing she would do btw. I'm merely pointing out that ZM is not the innocent angel you guys make her out to be.

hmm, i dont know the story that well, but i think the first time zhou zhiruo met zhao min is when they're all captured in the pagoda, right? so basically in zzr's perspective, from the moment she knew zm, zm stole her shifu's inherited weapon (the heavenly sword), wanted to cut up zzr's face for no apparent reason, caused the death of many of the righteous sect ppl, especially her beloved shifu. basically zhao min = evil incarnate. not that killing ah li is something zzr's proud of, but things like stealing the sword and saber back (partly to defend the Song empire from the evil Mongolians), probably sounds reasonable (not like xie xun will give up the saber to anyone, even if its for the greater good or if she asks nicely). and who better to push the blame to than zm, the person who started all this bad stuff, caused all her problems, her sworn enemy in both public and personal matters?

yeah, so i'm totally just guessing what zzr would be feeling, and her rationale for her actions. but yeah, i'm biased cause i fell in love with the sweet & lovely zzr that gao yuan yuan portrayed. but towards the end when zm became nicer and selfless, she was a lot more attractive than the evil zzr.

GYY made ZZR's state of confusion and helplessness believable. ZZR wasnt as sympathetic in the novel. Basically, it's debatable whether ZZR framed ZM out of vengence and spite or simply because ZM's was the best candidate to push the blame to. I would probably think both. Out of the 4 ladies, ZZR probably disliked ZM the most and saw her as the biggest competitor for ZWJ's affections. It so happens that ZM was also the most likely person to become her scapegoat because everyone knew ZM's cunning and devious nature from earlier. So it was like killing two birds with one stone for ZZR.

[owbjhx]

Zhou Zhiruo is not a nice person, but in the wider scheme of things, she is really just a pragmatist. Among Jin Yong's notable female characters, she stands out as being one who is unwilling to put romance above everything, which in a way is quite sensible. The problem is that this makes her look heartless alongside JY's other women, who more often than not are utterly devoted to their men in a rather immediate and idealised way. Whereas their love is unconditional and a source of redemption, ZZR's love is conditional and is a source of trouble for her.

Personally, I find ZZR to be quite cleverly-written in the novel, but Zhao Min is more likeable & fun. I'd say that Zhang Wuji & Zhao Min are one of JY's most fun couples, but the interaction between ZWJ & ZZR is interesting because you never know what ZZR is thinking, which is a little bit terrifying; it's sort of a glimpse of what it's like to be ZWJ - living in a world you don't really understand. In 'Yi Tian' in general, women are seen from the perspective of a bewildered young guy who doesn't understand them: "she moves in mysterious ways" indeed. In the adaptation, Gao Yuanyuan did quite well in getting across some of this 'feminine inscrutability'.

[sunnysnow]

but i doubt that zm would ever go for that. she is after all from a royal family. she would probably go back home and live a good life, and maybe who knows, she might send some of her people to give zzr and zhang wuji trouble

Her home was already destroyed by the Ming rebellions, and her people were already toppled by the Hans. If she went back, she'd only be taken as a prisoner by ZYZ

And furthermore, i doubt ZM will ever leave ZWJ. She's given up too much to let go of him, she even sacrificed her family, wealth and status to be with him so i doubt she'll ever return to the noble lifestyle even if she's spurned by ZWJ. She'll probably just use her brains to come up with more methods to get him back.

[Xin Zhi Zhu]

I agree ZM probably wasn't doing it for ZWJ and probably did do it for herself, but in the process she did save ZWJ. Seriously, how happy do you think ZWJ would've been marrying ZZR and THEN finding out all that she did? I don't think he'd be jumping for joy about his marriage. While I understand it hurtful and shameful for ZZR, she deserved it.

If that happens, it seems like ZWJ will go through what his dad, ZCS went through --> realizing that his wife did something bad to those around him and ulitmately leading to his suicide...