Heavenly Sword and Dragon Saber 2003 - Y Thien Do Long Ky 2003.

[bellamia]

Oh please, I've never stated that ZM is supposed to play all nice and save face for ZZR, which is probably the last thing she would do btw. I'm merely pointing out that ZM is not the innocent angel you guys make her out to be.

Nah, when I think of ZM "innocent angel" is the last words that I would associate with her. However, when you have 2 intelligence women who are capable of anything, including evil doing then it even the plain field for anything and everything. If ZZR's capable of commiting the crime on the island, then I'm 100% for ZM crashing her wedding day. Payback is always a b**ch!

Though, I love that ZZR's character changed toward the end. GYY acting is superb in her role. She was able to convince me to hate her & then to like her in a matter of a second. Toward the end, I can see the soul in her eyes...that was something that I did not see throughout the drama.

[bellamia]

Zhou Zhiruo is not a nice person, but in the wider scheme of things, she is really just a pragmatist. Among Jin Yong's notable female characters, she stands out as being one who is unwilling to put romance above everything, which in a way is quite sensible. The problem is that this makes her look heartless alongside JY's other women, who more often than not are utterly devoted to their men in a rather immediate and idealised way. Whereas their love is unconditional and a source of redemption, ZZR's love is conditional and is a source of trouble for her.

Personally, I find ZZR to be quite cleverly-written in the novel, but Zhao Min is more likeable & fun. I'd say that Zhang Wuji & Zhao Min are one of JY's most fun couples, but the interaction between ZWJ & ZZR is interesting because you never know what ZZR is thinking, which is a little bit terrifying; it's sort of a glimpse of what it's like to be ZWJ - living in a world you don't really understand. In 'Yi Tian' in general, women are seen from the perspective of a bewildered young guy who doesn't understand them: "she moves in mysterious ways" indeed. In the adaptation, Gao Yuanyuan did quite well in getting across some of this 'feminine inscrutability'.

Well said of your assessment on ZM & ZZR. I think this is the reason why these two characters are so recognizabled. It's rare that you have 2 female leads that have multi-dimension to their characters. In a typical plot, you have either an innocent & weak girl vs. the cunning & manipulative girl. However, in this drama, both girls are strong & have many similar characteristics. I'm a little bit more partial toward ZM because with her power & wit she could have destroyed ZWJ & the Ming. However, she gave up everything for him.

[Sparky]

I wouldn't say ZZR wouldn't give up everything for love as some of you seem to think...from the 2003 series at least, it seems like the main force that drove her to be so ambitious and evil and not likeable, etc. Because she was going to marry ZWJ, against her sifu's wishes, yet when ZWJ ditches her for ZM, that's what drove her to do all these things. She stole the tu long dao and "killed" A Li before that, but she still loved Wuji and wanted to be with him. And when you think of it in that perspective, love, along with her concern for her reputation, was what drove her to become evil, besides some help from her sifu.

ZM is not an innocent angel at all - seriously, if she was, I wouldn't like her with ZWJ at all. It's because of how she starts out rather ruthless, clever, cunning, and with that whole troublemaker attitude, but then she gives up her status and everything for ZWJ. It's that contrast that makes ZWJ and ZM such a great couple.

In my opinion, during the series, it seems like they were hinting at the fact that ZZR blamed it on ZM partly out of jealousy. I was wondering about why she chose ZM as well. Like when Xie Xun recommends that ZWJ marry ZZR, ZZR's all like, "No, because I know he loves Zhao Min" and eventually forces him to swear to kill ZM. The jealousy was pretty clear.

[*aLySsA4eVa*]

Can't disagree with that. ZZR's jeolousy was pretty clear since she obviously loves ZWJ but she could tell that he prefers ZM.

[Sparky]

Do you all think there's a possibility ZJZ's HSDS might have ZWJ end up with ZZR? I personally would not like that at all, but in another way, it'd be interesting...

[bellamia]

Do you all think there's a possibility ZJZ's HSDS might have ZWJ end up with ZZR? I personally would not like that at all, but in another way, it'd be interesting...

That's a good question. I pondered at this question a little bit and concluded that there is no possibility that ZWJ would end up w/ ZZR. It's clear to me that ZM & ZZR have 2 different paths. Although, both loved ZWJ and is willing to sacrifice everything for him. However, from the plot it's clear that ZM is willing to give up everything for ZWJ when she defied her father to go with ZWJ to the island. Whereas, what ZZR did on the island made me think that she is too greedy, wanting both the swords to fulfill her Sifu's wish & wanting to have ZWJ at the same time.

Hypethically speaking, if ZWJ ending up with ZZR, I just don't feel like she is committed 100% to give up everything for him. There is a nagging feeling that she might work behind the scene to appease her Sifu's demon. This is concluded by the fact that she was already starting to learn the dangerous cong fu taken from the swords. There is no way she would stop her destructive path, even after marrying ZWJ.

[*aLySsA4eVa*]

I wouldn't like it if ZZR ends up with ZWJ. She became evil after getting thos 'nei li' from her shifu. And her shifu wouldn't be happy if she ends up with ZWJ. There would be endless trouble for this couple as well. Who knows she might even continue her evil? And she's from the E mei sect, and the women there sre not supposed to marry, what's more she's once the leader. And dear ZM would be so pitiful...

[sunnysnow]

Do you all think there's a possibility ZJZ's HSDS might have ZWJ end up with ZZR? I personally would not like that at all, but in another way, it'd be interesting...

If ZZR was portrayed slightly differently from the novel, for example, like this version of HSDS where she was remorseful and genuinely changed for the better in the end, I dont see why she cannot end up with ZWJ. But I don't think there's a possibility that ZWJ will end up with her alone because this will probably stir up alot of anger from ZM fans as well as the conventional audience who always prefer the guy to end up with the sacrificial girl.

BTW, if ZJZ follows JY's 3rd edition changes of HSDS, there is a possibility that ZWJ might end up with ZM as well as ZZR because in the end, he ponders about th 4 woman in his life and concludes that it would be the best if he could be with all 4 of them since he had intimate feelings for all of them. But it's probably impossible for Xiao Zhao and Zhu'er to be with him..it's more feasible for ZZR.

And she's from the E mei sect, and the women there sre not supposed to marry, what's more she's once the leader. And dear ZM would be so pitiful...

As long as you're not a nun, you can marry, eventhough you are from Emei Sect. The sect doesn't forbide it's female students to get married. Ji Xiaofu was engaged to Yin Liting of Wudang in the earlier bits of the novel and ZZR herself married Song Qingshu after ZWJ dumped her.

[Sparky]

If ZZR was portrayed slightly differently from the novel, for example, like this version of HSDS where she was remorseful and genuinely changed for the better in the end, I dont see why she cannot end up with ZWJ. But I don't think there's a possibility that ZWJ will end up with her alone because this will probably stir up alot of anger from ZM fans as well as the conventional audience who always prefer the guy to end up with the sacrificial girl.

Well I think that even if she was remorseful, ZZR's sifu might be a potential problem...so it'd be interesting to see how the storyline would deal with that. I mean, would ZZR just go and ignore everything her sifu said? I don't think ZZR had the commitment or the circumstances to end up with ZWJ in HSDS as it is.

Honestly, my reason why ZWJ and ZM should end up together is because it's pretty darn clear in this version of HSDS that they love each other. Now, the general audience including myself is not going to restrict two people who love each other from being together, because being together was all that mattered to them. Plus I enjoyed watching their scenes more than ZWJ and ZZR scenes...just my personal opinion. And Alec & Alyssa had great chemistry, on top of all that.

[bellamia]

It's crystal clear that ZWJ loved ZM more out of the 4 girls. Even ZWJ confessed his true feeling to ZZR toward the end, contending that what he felt toward her is only admiration & respect, while what he felt toward ZM is true love, "tinh yeu khac cot ghi tam" (sorry people, can't seem to translate this phrase into English, anyone?)

Anyhow, I'm very pleased with the ending of ZWJ & ZM being together. Also, I think the writer did a fantastic job making ZZR sympathic toward the end. ZZR going back to being the leader of the Emei sect is a good ending for her since I don't want her to become second fiddle to ZM when it comes to ZWJ love. In addition, with her taking the reign of the Emei sect will bring respectabilty back to the sect since i think her Siufu was REALLY EVIL who brought the sect onto the wrong path.

[lilviet_grl8o8]

yea her siufu was FREAKY, and super EViL. she was like a witch in disguise, how her spirit kept following around ZRR. evil!! lol

[resident:alien]

yea her siufu was FREAKY, and super EViL. she was like a witch in disguise, how her spirit kept following around ZRR. evil!! lol

MJST was dead. i think the shock caused by MJST's death triggered her psychosis/paranoia. she was clearly delusional as she began to see things that weren't really there.

were she to exist in modern times, she'd be in a residential home.

[Sparky]

Zhiruo's sifu was freaky and evil, and it was stupid how much anger she felt towards Zhang Wuji...but nevertheless, yes, Miejue was dead, so the only way Zhiruo could really feel "haunted" was if she felt it in her own heart. A lot of stuff haunted Zhiruo...her sifu, and Zhu'er (although that was partially her own fault -- even if her sifu told her to, she didn't HAVE to). I feel bad for her, but not enough to let her marry Zhang Wuji.

Miejue would have to be redone for Zhiruo alone or even Zhiruo not alone to end up with Wuji, in my opinion. Otherwise they'd be this gap.

[ann_fang]

In many ways, I think that ZM & ZZR are very similar. Both are beautiful & intelligence and yet at the same time both are capable of cruelty& evil doing. However, the difference between these two is the degree that they love ZWJ. Once ZM met ZWJ she changed 360 degrees. She defied her family & her country to be with him. In essence, she was willing to sacrifice everything to be with him…I think this is close to unconditional love as it gets.

ZZR on the other hand also loves ZWJ; I have no doubt about this. However, I always felt that she did not love him enough. There is always the shadow of her Sufu in the background haunting her, thus, prevented her to be completely true to herself & to ZWJ. .

Sure, ZM loved ZWJ and gave up everything for him. But you can't tell that ZZR wouldn't do the same. She ignored everything to be with him.
ZM was grown up in the Royal family and was spoiled and loved by her family. She was always be protected. she has a strong character and dares to do things that you and I probably wouldn't do. I want to say is she is selfconfident but does not care about the feelings of others even ZWJ's feeling sometimes.
ZZR was grown up in the Emei sect by a devil women and always in competion with her elders. I think she is innerly weaker than we supposed. She was manipulated by her Sifu since childhood. One of the more important fact is she was lack of love. She had no parents and every child needs the parents love. Ok, she had her SIFu but that evil women can't replace a mother. She was trying to be a good pupil and want to prove the world that she is a strong person but her feelings was irretated. the first man she loves doesn't really love her and broke her heart so often. ( Every time he cares for ZM). The world is somehow unfair, why can somebody like ZM have wealth in the beginning killing loads of people than get love in the end. But a person like ZZR who had to suffer since childhood, suffer till the end. I don#t want to ignore that she turned evil but you can't be all good and strong if you're influenced by so many facts. At least If I was her and someone stole my fiance while the wedding ceremony I wouldn't say : Allright, i'm here to wait. So be back soon. I probably kick some a** and take revange.
However GYY did a really great job. I hated Alec Su af´terward for breaking her heart.

[Surferket]

Haha I love your reply. I too hated Alec since that show.

Sure, ZM loved ZWJ and gave up everything for him. But you can't tell that ZZR wouldn't do the same. She ignored everything to be with him.
ZM was grown up in the Royal family and was spoiled and loved by her family. She was always be protected. she has a strong character and dares to do things that you and I probably wouldn't do. I want to say is she is selfconfident but does not care about the feelings of others even ZWJ's feeling sometimes.
ZZR was grown up in the Emei sect by a devil women and always in competion with her elders. I think she is innerly weaker than we supposed. She was manipulated by her Sifu since childhood. One of the more important fact is she was lack of love. She had no parents and every child needs the parents love. Ok, she had her SIFu but that evil women can't replace a mother. She was trying to be a good pupil and want to prove the world that she is a strong person but her feelings was irretated. the first man she loves doesn't really love her and broke her heart so often. ( Every time he cares for ZM). The world is somehow unfair, why can somebody like ZM have wealth in the beginning killing loads of people than get love in the end. But a person like ZZR who had to suffer since childhood, suffer till the end. I don#t want to ignore that she turned evil but you can't be all good and strong if you're influenced by so many facts. At least If I was her and someone stole my fiance while the wedding ceremony I wouldn't say : Allright, i'm here to wait. So be back soon. I probably kick some a** and take revange.
However GYY did a really great job. I hated Alec Su af´terward for breaking her heart.

[ann_fang]

Haha I love your reply. I too hated Alec since that show.

Wow that a honour to hear that from you. Thanks

[lido_freak]

He he, I know this is last year series but I really like the characters in this series. Especially Zhao Min by Alyssa Chia. She looks so cute!!! I think she's the cutest Zhao Min in all HSDS series that I have seen. I also like Chow Chi Yuerk by Gao Yuan Yuan. I don't like that she's evil and selfish; what I like is the way she acts and expresses the Chow Chi Yuerk character. She has done it well!
Hey, does anyone know is this series is ATV or TVB or something else??? I don't know so I just started this thread in China series.

*Characters:*
-Alec Su = Zhang Wu Ji and Zhang Cui Shan.
-Alyssa Chia = Zhao Min.
-Gao Yuan Yuan = Chow Chi Yuerk.
-Zhang Guo Li = Sheng Kun.
-Guo Fei Lai = Yan Su Su.
-Tao Hong = Ji Hu Fu.
-Shi Xiao Long = Zhang Wu Ji (young).

oh, love this movie....but then i think he would've been better with the maid girl..i don't know what her name was..but she put disguieses on her face to look ugly at first though...i haven't seen most of the episodes, but i saw the ending...

[Sparky]

Oh gosh do we really have to start this debate again?

the first man she loves doesn't really love her and broke her heart so often. ( Every time he cares for ZM).

ZWJ never promised ZZR love. Just because you love someone doesn't oblige that person to love you back, as we've said numerous times. ZZR simply forced ZWJ into a situation that he was uncomfortable with while betraying his trust, thus resulting in a disastrous wedding...ZWJ can't control who he loves.

Meanwhile, ZM sacrificed a lot for ZWJ, but she never forced ZWJ to fall in love with her. ZZR was unwilling to sacrifice her position in Emei or her sifu for ZWJ, while ZM was. Instead, ZZR attempted to compromise the two and ended up hurting more people. She made a mistake, but because of those mistakes she lost ZWJ.

The world is somehow unfair, why can somebody like ZM have wealth in the beginning killing loads of people than get love in the end. But a person like ZZR who had to suffer since childhood, suffer till the end.

Life isn't fair, and that's not an excuse for your actions. Plus, from your post, you should realize Zhao Min didn't choose to be born into a wealthy family, just like Zhou Zhiruo didn't choose to be an orphan. Besides, if we're talking about their chances of getting Zhang Wuji, ZM started with lower chances than ZZR. If you think ZZR should get ZWJ just because she was born in a lower status than ZM, that's not a good reason. Plus, it's not even the point. The point is that the scenes between ZM/ZWJ clearly show more romance than between ZZR/ZWJ. Why would ZZR fans want her to end up in a marriage where she isn't loved by her husband?

[AsianKid2k]

Does anyone know the name of Yang Gor and Xiao Long Ni's daughter who appeared at end of Heavenly Sword, Dragon Sabre 2003?

[Surferket]

Not supposed to be their daughter at all. This was answered by another poster earlier.

Does anyone know the name of Yang Gor and Xiao Long Ni's daughter who appeared at end of Heavenly Sword, Dragon Sabre 2003?