Yeung Gor - The Ultimate Swordsman

[Yeung Gor]

actually, JY usually acknowledge GY and XF as the most memoriable and admirable and (can i use the word: superiable? ) more superior than most of his characters

the most charming goes to Ling Hu Chong and the most adorable goes to Duan Yu

Who's GY?

hehe LHC is most charming, so it's not WXB? Interesting.

[Temujin]

Well, if you look at all the examples that JY provides, almost all the fighters who were the inventors of their arts are one of the greatest of fighters in their era. Zhang San Feng was an inventor, he invented Taichi. There are tons of other examples that support fighters who has the creativity to come up with their own arts proved to be superior fighters. Huang Shang inventor of 9 ying is another example. and the list goes on... take time to think about it, you will notice it. So to say there isn't a correlation between fighting talent and creativity isn't right.

Not true at all.

GJ - Not an inventor
ZWJ - Not an inventor
XZ - Not an inventor
XF - Not an inventor
DY - Not an inventor
CJL - Not an inventor
WXB - Not an inventor
HF - Not an inventor
Di Yun - Not an inventor
SPT - Not an inventor
LHC - Not an inventor
DFBB - Not an inventor

Should say more... the list goes on and on.

You misread my post here. I didnt say YG was the "Greatest". You were comparing YG to not just ZSF but XZ, DY, XF, GJ and stated YG isn't as great as them. To that I said, YG is as great as them, and actually there is a stronger case that he can be "greater" (comparing to some of them). ZSF has a great case to be the Greatest, possibly is since you said JY said so himself. I won't disagree here. But comparing to the rest, YG has a good case, esp against XZ and DY. XZ received his martial arts achievements as gifts, hardly work for it. DY talent isn't great and the novel illustrated so but he has superior skills which allows him to beat people and makes mistakes. XF and GJ, I respect greatly because they are similar to YG, talent wise and they earned their skills and reputation.

So Temujin, I feel YG has been greatly underrated (esp by you :P ) and I'm offering a case where he can be spoke of along the lines of the greats you mentioned above.

Dude, look at your original post ... let me quote 'I think a stronger case can be made that YG is greater.'

YG ...... IS NOT .... greater

[TuToo]

Who's GY?

hehe LHC is most charming, so it's not WXB? Interesting.

oops, i meant GJ

nope, it's not WXB, WXB is more of what i wrote in your other thread: the most ideal person in society and also JY's most complicated character that he ever tried to build

http://spcnet.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=9822

[JigSta]

I still don't believe YG could defeat XZ. One hit from XZ would crumble nations...

[Ren Wo Xing]

XZ is a walking nuke....

[Yeung Gor]

Not true at all.

GJ - Not an inventor
ZWJ - Not an inventor
XZ - Not an inventor
XF - Not an inventor
DY - Not an inventor
CJL - Not an inventor
WXB - Not an inventor
HF - Not an inventor
Di Yun - Not an inventor
SPT - Not an inventor
LHC - Not an inventor
DFBB - Not an inventor

Should say more... the list goes on and on.

:

GJ somewhat invented a new version of HL18G, he invented the soft/hard version.

Now lets compare inventors vs not-inventors in the same arts and see who's better.

Zhang Sanfeng vs ZWJ (who's better?)

Inventor (dont know his name) vs DFBB (who's better?)

Dugu Quibai vs LHC (Who's better?)

see my point? There is a correlation between ability to invent your own arts and fighting talent. Of course I'm not saying those who didn't invent aren't great fighters. Clearly some of them are, esp XF. He is the best example of someone who can take an existant art and use it to the fullest. Greatness has many aspects and its subjective, whichever aspect you value the most. Yeung Gor isn't the greatest that I know. But he isn't too far behind either in my opinion.

[Xiao Feng]

"Yang Guo put his sword back into his girdle and used his palm to intercept that blow from the Imperial Priest. When the two huge forces collided, both of them rocked about and the wooden ladder shook a few times like it was going to break. Both of them were shocked and praised the opponent:"I haven't seen him for 16 years, I never imagined his internal power would have increased this much.

Yang Guo saw that the situation was dire and would not allow him to compete palm strenghs at the ladder again. He took out his sword again and attacked the Imperial Priest with stabbing, slicing the leg palms. The Imperial Priest was standing above and if he used his wheels to fight he would have to bend over and that would bring himself in a disadvantage. Furthermore his wheels were shorter compared to the sword, so he turned around and wanted to go up the platform again.Yang Guo raised his sword and attacked him ferociously in the back, every stance was as quick as lightning. The Imperial Priest did not turn around, and used his ears to determine the attacked positions. He used his wheel to block every stance, it was like he had eyes in the back of his head."

XF, no need to reply again. I know you dont like YG and strongely believe he is nothing compare to XF. No need to call him queer/gay though. Even if JY were to say YG is superior to XF you probably would reject and not accept it. But clearly you can see that YG switch between sword and palm and sword again.. no buts about it.

I want to reply again . I don't like YG, thats true but I don't think he is shit. He is a great afterall. ANd if JY were to come out and say so and so is better, who is to deny it?

Back to the sword/palm switch. By reading that, I get the picture that YG was trying to improvise in the fight rather than using it as a strategy. He was using his sword, until somehow GWM got him into a position whereby he had to match palms with him. The force of the blow pushed them apart. And judging by their reactions and comments, they decided to go back to their weapons would be better. Again back to my previous opinion that fighters only change weapons when necessary either forced to or they decide its better. I mean why disturb the momentum in the middle of a fight by switching weapons unecessarily. Hence the outcome.

Its not that you can't. Its definitely not a good tactic if used to fight an opponent where you keep changing your weapon every now and then. Your putting yourself at a disadvantage. Its like trying to scratch your back in the middle of trading blows. Its folly. Even more so when you have only one arm.

[qiaofeng]

actually he is one of the most talented characters in JY's world.

r u kidding ? duan yu has talent ?? that guy has almost 0 talent in martial arts. the only talent he has demonstrated is stalking pretty girls, which his ling bo wei bu probably helped alot. and also he has lots of talent for fleeing.

that's because he never learned any martial arts till he found the manuscripts. Considering he could reach that level within couples of months, that must be something..

he reached that level only because he had tons of nei li and his 6mai shen jian, beiming and ling bo wei bu. its got nothing to do with talent. give one of the wu brothers or any crappy fighter for that matter his skills and nei li and they will sure as hell surpass him. hes got one of the strongest nei li and sniping skills and what does he do ? he doesnt practice it or anything, he just stalks wang gu niang all the time. what a loser.

and to yeung gor's posts about inventing, the reason that those inventors u mentioned are top fighters is simply cus u gotta have a certain level of mastery in martial arts to be able to invent new skills. its however not a prerequisite. sweeper is probably the top fighters. and he didnt invent anything, at least it wasnt mentioned. the xiaoyao elders can kick the asses of those guys u mentioned, and they didnt invent anything either. and the list goes on. yang guo is talented in creating, learning and fighting. but hes not that powerful. as far as actual fighing talent goes, no one can match qiaofeng. and zhang wuji is probably better at learning and understanding martial arts. imho fighting wise, hes slightly below guo jing. he can most probably own zhang wuji and duan yu. but guys like xiaoyao elders, xu zhu and qiaofeng would most definately squash him. xu zhu may not have much fighting talent, but his godly nei li and superior xiao yao skills more than makes up for it. no matter how u put it, having 1 arm is a serious disadvantage vs these guys. he may have been able to hold up vs zhou botong, but age has caught up to him. + hes not in the same league as those guys ive mentioned

[Yeung Gor]

I still don't believe YG could defeat XZ. One hit from XZ would crumble nations...

Actually, I agree one hit from XZ (assuming he can use his full inner power) would kill anyone in one shot (maybe Sweeper can take it). However, it doesnt appear he can do so. He has hit others with a hit and they still continue to fight. Now in this case, YG can beat him with his sword skill. Of course YG would have to rely heavily in his Gumu Lightness Kungfu/9 ying to dodge all of XZ's attack, he'll have to be 100% focus and quick, which he has pull off before vs superior fighters.

Tough fight to win, definitely, but YG might just pull it off.

[qiaofeng]

yang guo doesnt stand a chance against him. xu zhu has 200+ years of bei ming zhen qi. unlike duan yu he did practice his kung fu. so he did get much better. he fought jiu mo zi, who is one of the top fighters to a draw using mainly hei hu tou xin. and wasted ding chu qiu. true, he took a while, but thats cus he was afraid of his poison, he didnt have to thou, cus his godly nei li would protect him. inner energy wise, hes lightyears ahead of yang guo. yang guo can eat all the snake bladder he wants but he'll never even come close to xu zhu's level. teachnique wise, yang guo's heavy sword is very a advanced technique, but i feel its still a little lower than the xiaoyao techniques xu zhu learnt. and if i remembered correctly, yang guo never mastered the highest state, which is the swordless state(correct me if im wrong cus im not very sure abt this).

+ i dont think yang guo has that much natural talent to beat xu zhu, who has slightly superior techniques and way superiour nei li. yang guo can at most fight to a draw with guys his level. eg. zhou botong, huang yaosi.+ did i mention that yang guo has 1 arm ? he can get diao xiong to help him peck out xu zhu's eyes, xu zhu will blow a hole in diao xiongs brain and still have enuff to waste yang guo. im no yang guo hater, but xu zhu is just too damn strong for yang guo to handle

[Xiao Feng]

GJ somewhat invented a new version of HL18G, he invented the soft/hard version.

Now lets compare inventors vs not-inventors in the same arts and see who's better.

Zhang Sanfeng vs ZWJ (who's better?)

Inventor (dont know his name) vs DFBB (who's better?)

Dugu Quibai vs LHC (Who's better?)

see my point? There is a correlation between ability to invent your own arts and fighting talent. Of course I'm not saying those who didn't invent aren't great fighters. Clearly some of them are, esp XF. He is the best example of someone who can take an existant art and use it to the fullest. Greatness has many aspects and its subjective, whichever aspect you value the most. Yeung Gor isn't the greatest that I know. But he isn't too far behind either in my opinion.

How about these cases?

ZWJ and inventor of QKDNY (whos better)
GJ and HS (inventor of 9 Yin) (whos better)
DGQB and YG (whos better)

[ToOn99]

r u kidding ? duan yu has talent ?? that guy has almost 0 talent in martial arts. the only talent he has demonstrated is stalking pretty girls, which his ling bo wei bu probably helped alot. and also he has lots of talent for fleeing.



he reached that level only because he had tons of nei li and his 6mai shen jian, beiming and ling bo wei bu. its got nothing to do with talent. give one of the wu brothers or any crappy fighter for that matter his skills and nei li and they will sure as hell surpass him. hes got one of the strongest nei li and sniping skills and what does he do ? he doesnt practice it or anything, he just stalks wang gu niang all the time. what a loser.

and to yeung gor's posts about inventing, the reason that those inventors u mentioned are top fighters is simply cus u gotta have a certain level of mastery in martial arts to be able to invent new skills. its however not a prerequisite. sweeper is probably the top fighters. and he didnt invent anything, at least it wasnt mentioned. the xiaoyao elders can kick the asses of those guys u mentioned, and they didnt invent anything either. and the list goes on. yang guo is talented in creating, learning and fighting. but hes not that powerful. as far as actual fighing talent goes, no one can match qiaofeng. and zhang wuji is probably better at learning and understanding martial arts. imho fighting wise, hes slightly below guo jing. he can most probably own zhang wuji and duan yu. but guys like xiaoyao elders, xu zhu and qiaofeng would most definately squash him. xu zhu may not have much fighting talent, but his godly nei li and superior xiao yao skills more than makes up for it. no matter how u put it, having 1 arm is a serious disadvantage vs these guys. he may have been able to hold up vs zhou botong, but age has caught up to him. + hes not in the same league as those guys ive mentioned

no I wasn't , the fact that DY can learn 6MSJ ( no one ever fully "masterr" it for years), BMSG so easily shows he is so talented. Being a good fighter and being talented are two different matters. ZWJ was a lousy fighter but would you say that he is no talent at all ?.

[Yeung Gor]

I want to reply again . I don't like YG, thats true but I don't think he is shit. He is a great afterall. ANd if JY were to come out and say so and so is better, who is to deny it?

Back to the sword/palm switch. By reading that, I get the picture that YG was trying to improvise in the fight rather than using it as a strategy. He was using his sword, until somehow GWM got him into a position whereby he had to match palms with him. The force of the blow pushed them apart. And judging by their reactions and comments, they decided to go back to their weapons would be better. Again back to my previous opinion that fighters only change weapons when necessary either forced to or they decide its better. I mean why disturb the momentum in the middle of a fight by switching weapons unecessarily. Hence the outcome.

Its not that you can't. Its definitely not a good tactic if used to fight an opponent where you keep changing your weapon every now and then. Your putting yourself at a disadvantage. Its like trying to scratch your back in the middle of trading blows. Its folly. Even more so when you have only one arm.

Well, I agree it can be a bad strategy switching between palm and sword. But YG has only one arm and it's the main reason he went against the "norm". I was only pointing out that the whole switching between hand and sword wasn't something I made up completely. The novel itself gave me the idea, so that's why I use that strategy vs someone as tough as XF. If XF launches his HL18G, YG has only two option, dodge or trade with Sad Palms, and I'm pointing out that he could put his sword back in his girdle and trade palm. XF is too good of a fighter to keep using Sad Palms vs him, so YG will have to mix it up with Sword techniques to gain any advantage.

[Xiao Feng]

Actually, I agree one hit from XZ (assuming he can use his full inner power) would kill anyone in one shot (maybe Sweeper can take it). However, it doesnt appear he can do so. He has hit others with a hit and they still continue to fight. Now in this case, YG can beat him with his sword skill. Of course YG would have to rely heavily in his Gumu Lightness Kungfu/9 ying to dodge all of XZ's attack, he'll have to be 100% focus and quick, which he has pull off before vs superior fighters.

Tough fight to win, definitely, but YG might just pull it off.

During the Shaolin fight he wasn't in full control. But its been said that at the end of the novel, XZ pretty much had his powers in full control. Like RenWoXing said, he's a walking nuke. YG pretty much can't hurt him if XZ is serious. And its interesting you should point out that YG's gu Mu lightness kungfu is going to help him against arguably the fastest man ever.

[qiaofeng]

no I wasn't , the fact that DY can learn 6MSJ ( no one ever fully "masterr" it for years), BMSG so easily shows he is so talented. Being a good fighter and being talented are two different matters. ZWJ was a lousy fighter but would you say that he is no talent at all ?.

the reason no one fully mastered it was simpily cus i requires lots of nei li just to learn just 1 finger. thats y the tianlong si monks only learnt 1 each. duan yu has sucked tons of nei li, so it wasnt a problem for him. so its due to his nei li, not his talent, and if he did master it, it wont get stuck all the time. hell he didnt even fully master bei ming shen gong. he cant suck whenever he wants, it just happens by accident. thats y i say hes got almost 0 talent. and zhang wuji did suck a fighter. but hes a good talent in learning kungfu theories

[Ken Cheng]

And its interesting you should point out that YG's gu Mu lightness kungfu is going to help him against arguably the fastest man ever.

Hui Juk is the Flash?

[Wu Xing]

To Yang Gor:

The part of novel that you show explain that YG's sword cannot resist GWM's attack (that's why he switch to his palm attack). I think Xiao Feng's understanding of your sword/palm switching means switching 'often' and use as the strategy. The example that you show YG switch to plam and 'stop' and then 'go' with his sword (not switch back & forth and so on). YG (at least in this example) didn't switch very often and he switch when there is a kind of 'freezing' moment (right after palm-to-palm with GWM). This is a special case and it is not a good strategy to rely on.

Nevertheless, this example shows that YG may not be the best swordman since the best swordman in JY's universe should be able to counter GWM's attack with sword instead of switching to palm attack. The nature of the true sword stylist is not force against force (at least directly). If ZBT can use his vacant fist against GWM, this means that FCY should be easily use his sword against GWM (in my opinion).

To Yang Gor & qiaofeng:

You might underestimate DY and you might not know how good DY really is. DY is a well-around scholar and have a good understanding of I Ching. Without any martial art background, he can learn LBWB and BMSG alone by himself and this is before he suck the internal strength from others (no one explain to him but he got a little advantage that he's familiar with I Ching). After he sucks a lot of internal energy from others and learn some of the qi control method from his uncle, he was able to learn 6MSJ by himself through the drawing and by seeing his uncle and high monks of Tian Long temple using 6MSJ fighting with JMZ. Of course, he got advantage that he has a lot of internal energy at that time. Nevertheless, I'm truely believe that these are the things that Wu brothers cannot do.

Moreover, with almost no fighting experience, he was able to use 6MSJ, right away after he just finish learning by himself, and literally "beat" JMZ in the 'qi' level fighting (but, after losing, JMZ caught DY with his tricky lower level fighting skill). This is I'm sure that Wu brothers cannot do.

Then, with a bit more experience but no knowledge of basic hand/leg fighting, he can beat MRF at Shaolin temple (with some suggestion from XF) and WYY's mother's house (this is by himself). With some help from WYY, he can use his LBWB and be able to beat "a group" of average fighter (sometimes without 6MSJ & BMSG). Again, this is I'm sure that Wu brothers cannot do.

In my opinion, DY is very talent and would be perfect if he didn't obsess with WYY. DY has some bad scholar types of habit and got clumsy sometimes. But this is because he has no experience (he hardly leave his palace at the beginning of the DGSD) and I believe that he is quite skillful at the end of the story. Note that there is an evident show that he might be able to control his BMSG when he travel to the competition for the Princess. And I tell you, if DY didn't obsess with WYY (based on the novel), XZ role will be taken by DY (since it is because his obsessed mind that don't allow him to able to solve the chess game. Note: DY is one of the best chess player in DGSD).

Cheers.

[Xiao Feng]

Well, I agree it can be a bad strategy switching between palm and sword. But YG has only one arm and it's the main reason he went against the "norm". I was only pointing out that the whole switching between hand and sword wasn't something I made up completely. The novel itself gave me the idea, so that's why I use that strategy vs someone as tough as XF. If XF launches his HL18G, YG has only two option, dodge or trade with Sad Palms, and I'm pointing out that he could put his sword back in his girdle and trade palm. XF is too good of a fighter to keep using Sad Palms vs him, so YG will have to mix it up with Sword techniques to gain any advantage.

Thats my point, if he keeps switching swords and palms he's putting himself at a DISadvantage. He's basically opening himself up for attack. And the fact that his scabbard is at the back worsens things plus he doesn't have another arm to block or counter.

[Yeung Gor]

How about these cases?

ZWJ and inventor of QKDNY (whos better)
GJ and HS (inventor of 9 Yin) (whos better)
DGQB and YG (whos better)

Asssuming they use the same arts to fight each other. I favor the Inventors.

[Xiao Feng]

To qiaofeng:

Dude, DY has talent. I don't like the chap but he's got serious talent. If he's serious about martial arts, no one in DGSD would be able to stop him bar the 2 freaks of course. Thats why lots of ppl including me don't like him. He's got everything going for him yet he forsakes everything for a girl. He's heir to the throne, he's got talent, he's got the 3 best skills ever ever and he's willing to give that all up for a GIRL!!! The boy needs a big spanking.