Yang Guo as Romantic (Byronic) Hero

[Dennis Chen]

http://www.umd.umich.edu/casl/hum/en...b/CHARACTE.htm

Fits Yang Guo to a tee.

[Ken Cheng]

It describes Yeung Gor almost perfectly (I bet Jin Yong read some Byron in his youth), except for that one part that said that romantic heroes often concealed secret sex crimes that they committed. Yeung Gor was many things, but one thing he wasn't was a sex fiend. For a guy who rebelled against society in so many ways, he had a very strong sense of decency when it came to treating members of the opposite sex. It's one of his best attributes.

[dbx]

Well I think anyone would would label any hero as Byronic just hasn't read enough. If you only read English Lit and think that English lit is the source of all good and proper literature then you would call the Byronic hero a Byronic hero, any exposure to a large amount of literature outside of English and you will find Byronic heros everywhere else, long before Byron was even alive.

[Dennis Chen]

Well I think anyone would would label any hero as Byronic just hasn't read enough. If you only read English Lit and think that English lit is the source of all good and proper literature then you would call the Byronic hero a Byronic hero, any exposure to a large amount of literature outside of English and you will find Byronic heros everywhere else, long before Byron was even alive.

I put 'Byronic' in brackets after 'Romantic'.

By your reasoning, Joseph Campbell hasn't read enough because he called Sun Wu Kung, Hercules, Beowulf and Horus all 'Epic' (an English word and an English definition adapted from Greek) Heroes when the heroes existed long before even the advent of modern English.

But, that's okay, I can see that you are a scholar in the 'Multi-Culturalist' vein.

So, how would the Chinese Literary Tradition (is it okay for me to call it this?) define Yang Guo?

How would the Indian Literary Tradition define Yang Guo?

How would the African Oral Tradition define Yang Guo?

How would the Austro-Aborigine Oral Tradition define Yang Guo?

How would the Indigenous-American Oral Tradition define Yang Guo?

How would the Incan Tradition define Yang Guo?

How would the Aztec Tradition define Yang Guo?

etc.

etc.

etc.

[dbx]

You're missing the point.

I put 'Byronic' in brackets after 'Romantic'.

By your reasoning, Joseph Campbell hasn't read enough because he called Sun Wu Kung, Hercules, Beowulf and Horus all 'Epic' (an English word and an English definition) Heroes.

So how would the Chinese Literary Tradition (is it okay for me to call it this?)define Yang Guo?

I think you missed the point too.
Romantic(Byronic Heros) are pretty much the new "tragic" heros. Instead of defying the Gods, they defied society. The convention of man versus the judgement of God.

Byron was a product of his time, the Enlightenment in Europe was attempting to replace God with reason.

I don't think I would try and categorize Yang Guo at all, he is just a hero, Yin Xiong. He is Xia, no more no less.

[dbx]

I put 'Byronic' in brackets after 'Romantic'.

By your reasoning, Joseph Campbell hasn't read enough because he called Sun Wu Kung, Hercules, Beowulf and Horus all 'Epic' (an English word and an English definition adapted from Greek) Heroes when the heroes existed long before even the advent of modern English.

But, that's okay, I can see that you are a scholar in the 'Multi-Culturalist' vein.

So, how would the Chinese Literary Tradition (is it okay for me to call it this?) define Yang Guo?

How would the Indian Literary Tradition define Yang Guo?

How would the African Oral Tradition define Yang Guo?

How would the Austro-Aborigine Oral Tradition define Yang Guo?

How would the Indigenous-American Oral Tradition define Yang Guo?

How would the Incan Tradition define Yang Guo?

How would the Aztec Tradition define Yang Guo?

etc.

etc.

etc.

The essence of heroism is not in words, it is somewhere beyond words.
I do not concern myself with tradition too much.

[Dennis Chen]

sign, signifier, signified.

overall, nice evasion.

[dbx]

sign, signifier, signified.

nice evasion.

There is no evasion, just as there are no plurals, tenses, pre-fixes or suffixes in Chinese.

[Dennis Chen]

What is 'xia' if not a tradition?

[Dennis Chen]

just as there are no plurals, tenses, pre-fixes or suffixes in Chinese.

What does this have to do with the conversation?

[dbx]

What does this have to do with the conversation?

When you understand what I have said, there will be no need to continue this conversation.

[dbx]

What is 'xia' if not a tradition?

Xia is Xia, what is Xia, do you know?
It is something beyond words. There are no qualifications to be a Xia Ke. There are no qualifications to be a Yin Xiong. One merely is or one is not. Just as Xia is Xia and what is not Xia is not Xia.

[Dennis Chen]

When you understand what I have said, there will be no need to continue this conversation.

Basically, all I need to do is tell you have right thinking and I have wrong thinking. That you are enlightened and I live in a cave full of shadows.

Do you know what sign, signifier, signified is?

[Dennis Chen]

Xia is Xia, what is Xia, do you know?
It is something beyond words. There are no qualifications to be a Xia Ke. There are no qualifications to be a Yin Xiong. One merely is or one is not. Just as Xia is Xia and what is not Xia is not Xia.

So, Wei Xiao Bao is also a 'Xia Ke'? Tian Bo Guang is an 'Ying Xiong'? How does one know which is which and what is what?

What are you going to tell me next?... 'No, try not, do or do not, there is no try'?

Even the most enlightened Buddhist monk knows that as long as there is pain and suffering in the world there will be 'right' and 'wrong'.

You're a troll, sitting comfortably in a chair in front of a computer spouting Disneyesque philosophy. Go out into the world, see the kind of daily suffering that people go through and then come back and see if you can still hack out your shallow, 'May the Force be with you', pseudo-spirituality.

[Xiao Feng]

LOL!!!

Dennis my man, you're fighting a losing battle. He'll just post MORE "almost" intelligent, "nearly" wise comments in reply. Just forget and ignore.

[Candide]

You can't win against a pseudo-philosopher. Give up, Dennis.

About romanticism and Yang Guo, I think it fits him almost perfectly, except that he was an illiterate (or almost) and didn't know things "romantic" people do back then: poetry, music, painting... XLN seems to be good at music though. I wonder if that is the reason why their descendant, Lady Yang, was showing off stupid music everywhere she went.

[dbx]

Basically, all I need to do is tell you have right thinking and I have wrong thinking. That you are enlightened and I live in a cave full of shadows.

Do you know what sign, signifier, signified is?

You assume too much.

And I was talking about the quote you're using being unable to be said the same way in Chinese. As there is no tense, prefix, suffix and plural.

Oh yes, I am a non-native speaker of English.

Spend more time attacking my points, I was talking about Tragic heros earlier.
If you attack my points, perhaps we can deconstruct this misunderstanding.

[dbx]

You can't win against a pseudo-philosopher. Give up, Dennis.

About romanticism and Yang Guo, I think it fits him almost perfectly, except that he was an illiterate (or almost) and didn't know things "romantic" people do back then: poetry, music, painting... XLN seems to be good at music though. I wonder if that is the reason why their descendant, Lady Yang, was showing off stupid music everywhere she went.

Ad hominium. I am not a philosopher at all.

[dbx]

I miss wrote a post.

[dbx]

So, Wei Xiao Bao is also a 'Xia Ke'? Tian Bo Guang is an 'Ying Xiong'? How does one know which is which and what is what?

What are you going to tell me next?... 'No, try not, do or do not, there is no try'?

Even the most enlightened Buddhist monk knows that as long as there is pain and suffering in the world there will be 'right' and 'wrong'.

You're a troll, sitting comfortably in a chair in front of a computer spouting Disneyesque philosophy. Go out into the world, see the kind of daily suffering that people go through and then come back and see if you can still hack out your shallow, 'May the Force be with you', pseudo-spirituality.

Is Wei Xiao Bao a Xia Ke? Is Tian Bo Guan a Yin Xiong? I do not know?
Why must you assume so much.
Right and wrong are very personal perogatives.
And you resort to ad hominium attack now? Why don't you tell me the kind of daily suffering people go through. I am not a spiritual person at all.