Han Wu Da Di (Starring Chen Bao Guo as Liu Che)

[chaule]

******** HEAVY SPOILERS, LADY ZHU GE, DON'T READ THIS!!!!!!! **********

I didn't really have a problem with it either. But the Han laws back then didn't allow any military failures (which I think is crazy) so Li Guang couldn't take having to go through the humiliation back home and slashed himself. I mean, Wei Qing wasn't at fault either, he was just following the rule. Yes, it is all a huge tragedy.

Yah, I thought Han's military law at the time was way to strict and unreasonable too. I don't know if the law was created by Han Wu Di or was it has been Han's law since the the beginning of the Dynasty. My guess is that it was Han Wu Di who made that law for he was first extremely strict emperor. Pretty much a dictator and that's one of a few things I don't like about him.

I think the producers tried to glorify Wei Qing as much as possible after they dumbed him down by making Han Wu Di come out with all the war tactics.

Yes, I also thouthgt that it wasn't correct to see Han Wu Di to come up with every war tactics while Wei Qing basically didn't really able to have any, not even advices. Han Wu Di might have been also well verse in military tactics but Wei Qing sure was also a military genius. He sure wasn't just Han Wu Di's fighting arms.

Han Wen Di went to Xi Liu Barracks for the exact same reasons, to find out the military progress of hsi armies and found Zhou Ya Fu. That's why he told Han Jing Di later on to find Zhou Ya Fu if he needed to do battle.

Zhou Ya Fu's story was really a sad one. I really felt sorry for him. He was such a great man but he was simply being dishonor and discard once he wasn't needed anymore. I cried when he died.

There were heaps of pseudo-princessses married off to the Xiongnu and Wu Sun tribes, but no real princesses ever got married. But producers of HWDD argued that they found a Song artefact which said that Princess Nan Gong did get married off to the Xiong Nu, but seriously, if you are pitting a Song artefact against Sima Qian's "Shi Ji", I'd rather believe the "Shi Ji "that she didn't get married off to the Xiong Nu.

By the way, even if she did get sent over, she didn't marry those particular Xiong Nu chiefs because they didn't reign until like a decade or two later. (I remember when this was pointed out, the manic supporters of Princess Nan Gong and Yizhixie went all sad at the Chinese forums and it was hilarious!)

These pseudo-princesses were either daughter of distant royals or maids taught to act like a princess (Qiu Xiang and Qian Er were good examples from the story).

Haha, I would rather believe Shi Ji too.

Well, HWDD got the relationships all wrong, for some weird reason.

In the series, it was simplified to Jun Chen (the dad, and the actor who played Jiu Mo Zhi in TLBB BTW, a real Mongolian) having three sons, Yizhixie, Yu Dan, and Jin Mi Di.

But according to history. Jun Chen was Yizhixie's elder brother. Yu Dan was the heir to the throne, but then when his dad died due to natural causes, his uncle battled him for the throne and Yu Dan's armies lost after a few months and he fled to China. Yu Dan surrendered to Han Wu Di, and was made a Marquis, but died several months later due to illness (and no one knows who his mum is, but it for sure isn't Princess Nan Gong). Yi Zhi Xie became the Xiong Nu Chief.

Mi Di (original name Mi Di, the surname Jin was later given on by Han Wu Di after he surrendered) was the son of a distant Xiong Nu royal, Lord Xiu Tu. Lord Xiu Tu was about to surrender to the Han when he suddenly changed his mind, and was killed by his colleages (as seen in the series) who wanted to.

Because he dad changed his mind, Mi Di was not given any marquis ranks after surrendering and became a stable boy, and later became a close adviser to Han Wu Di and given the surname 'Jin'. (He was rumoured to be Han Wu Di's boyfriend BTW!)

Then back on Yizhixie from the series. He had all this stuff pushed onto him that he didn't do. It was done instead by his ancestor Mao Dun (the one who wrote the marriage proposal to Empress Lui) who ruled around 100 years before.

Mao Dun was the eldest son, but his dad preferred his little brother and when coerced by his new wife, the dad sent Mao Dun off to the Da Yue Zhi (the Turkish-Iranish tribe in the series) and then started a war, hoping that his son would be killed. But Mao Dun found out and escaped and planned revenge and killed his dad while on a hunting trip (same as in series, but different character), after practising on his wife and horse (another point). He also killed his little brother and stepmother as well.

Then after becoming Xiong Nu chief, he waged war on the Da Yue Zhi tribe, and pushed into the Middle-East after beheading their ruler and making his skull into a wine goblet (see, another thing Yizhixie didn't do).

And in the seige of Ma Yi, it was Jun Chen who lead the troops, not Yizhixie. And he surely survived that last battle (escaped after the Li Guang thing) and died a few years later due to illness.

Stuff he did do was personally lead troops against the Han and defeated two of their armies, causing Zhao Xin to surrender with all the military secrets.

Seriously, I was horrified at the gigantic deviations from the Xiong Nu side, but then thinking about it, I think it makes the series more interesting and easier to understand. I just don't get why they made Yizhixie the son instead of the brother, there was nothing he could not do as the brother that he could of if he was the brother.

Thanks for all the informations. How did you know so much about them? I didn't remember reading anything about them in the Shi Ji or maybe because my Shi Ji version was not fully translated therefore all those details about Xiong Nu weren't included?

He was homosexual with Han Wu Di and that got Empress Dowager Wang pissed. Then he was riding Han Wu Di's carriage once, and this brother of Empress Dowager Wang (not Tian Fen, she had many more brothers) thought it was Han Wu Di and knelt. He felt humiliated when he saw it was Han Yan and complained to the Empress Dowager, who ordered his death.

Ah yes, I remember it now. Han Yan was Han Wu Di's boyfriend. If my memory serves me correctly, I remember Ji An (suddenly became one of Han Wu Di's teacher in here) got pissed off at him and wanted Han Wu Di to kill him too. Ji An was also one of my favorites of Han Wu Di's reign. He was such a bold and straight forward man. So respectable.

I like Ma Shao Hua a lot! I think he has this very warm and caring look on him. Dou Ying was my favourite character in the whole series!

Hehe, we are pretty much the same here. Dou Ying was also my favorite character in this series. The first time I ever know about Dou Ying was in Da Han Tian Zi and oh my, they reduced him to became a low pety and useless man. Then I came to respect him after found out how he really was from Shi Ji and Ma's portrayal of Dou Ying made me like and respect him even more.

BTW, what did you think about the deleted scenes? Were they needed?

Some deleted scenes are not so important. Doesn't matter much. But there are deleted scenes I think defenitely needed. For example, the scene where Han Wu Di's favorite teacher (what was his name?) returned and suggest Han Wu Di to read Lao Zi's books as well because they have military tactics. I think it was defintely needed in order to show why Han Wu Di finally decided to read Daoism books as well and became so well verse in military art. It showed how his character grown. Very important. That was also the first cut scene I realized.

[chaule]

Have you started watching already? good for you. Liu Zhi and Ah Jiao are the two most adorable kids in the whole series! That episode was one emotional episode - I cried so much!

Really? You think the kid played Liu Zhi was adorable? Me, on the contrary, didn't like him at all. I like the young man who played Liu Zhi's older brother instead. He was really cute.

Hey, when you come to the character Guo Jie, tell me if you recognise what role he played in SGYY! Try and picture him without the beard. I didn't realise until the second rewatch!

chaule, did you recognise him?

I only know that he look familiar. When I see him, I know I defenitely saw him somewhere but just couldn't recall.

[chaule]

I was doing captures for some people at Baidu, so I just included this one in for chaule:

Baby-face

$this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid204/pb1621261d42419b917a99aa7ec8f0cfa/ef7bb2ed.jpg')

Haha, thanks for the pic. Baby-face indeed.

[charbydis]

Pretty much a dictator and that's one of a few things I don't like about him.

Me too.

Yes, I also thought that it wasn't correct to see Han Wu Di to come up with every war tactics while Wei Qing basically didn't really able to have any, not even advices. Han Wu Di might have been also well verse in military tactics but Wei Qing sure was also a military genius. He sure wasn't just Han Wu Di's fighting arms.

True. This version of Wei Qing is so humble and obedient. I like him! But I think they overated Huo Qu Bing and underated Wei Qing here. Wei Qing definately won more battles and created more tactics than insluded in here.

Zhou Ya Fu's story was really a sad one. I really felt sorry for him. He was such a great man but he was simply being dishonor and discard once he wasn't needed anymore. I cried when he died.

I actually thought he was partly responsible for his own downfall as well. If he hadn't been so arrogant and non-understanding, Han Jing Di may not have been afraid that his power would overide his young son. I don't think he suits a political life, I was sad when he returned. he could have been so happy and safe int eh country. Why did he come back?

Thanks for all the informations. How did you know so much about them? I didn't remember reading anything about them in the Shi Ji or maybe because my Shi Ji version was not fully translated therefore all those details about Xiong Nu weren't included?

It is partly in the Shi Ji (mostly about Mao Dun and Jin Mi Di), but what you should have a go reading is "Xiong Nu Lie Zhuan". Or you can look some stuff up on the internet, which I did because I knew something was wrong the first moment the family was introduced, and indeed there was.

Hehe, we are pretty much the same here. Dou Ying was also my favorite character in this series. The first time I ever know about Dou Ying was in Da Han Tian Zi and oh my, they reduced him to became a low pety and useless man. Then I came to respect him after found out how he really was from Shi Ji and Ma's portrayal of Dou Ying made me like and respect him even more.

Yes, I was frist exposed to the character in DHTZ and I was shocked. But then I bought Shi Ji and saw another interpretation. That one in DHTZ is so shallow!

Some deleted scenes are not so important. Doesn't matter much. But there are deleted scenes I think defenitely needed. For example, the scene where Han Wu Di's favorite teacher (what was his name?) returned and suggest Han Wu Di to read Lao Zi's books as well because they have military tactics. I think it was defintely needed in order to show why Han Wu Di finally decided to read Daoism books as well and became so well verse in military art. It showed how his character grown. Very important. That was also the first cut scene I realized.

You heard they cut out filming Hou Qu Bing's battle at Lang Xu mountain right? It was originally in the script, but they never covered it. It pissed me because I was disappointed with the inaccuracy of the desert battle.

His teacher is Wei Wan.

[Lady Zhuge]

Hey, when you come to the character Guo Jie, tell me if you recognise what role he played in SGYY! Try and picture him without the beard. I didn't realise until the second rewatch!

He's one of the Zhao Yun actors in SGYY! It wasn't hard for me to recognize him because I remember him from "Tian Xia Liang Cang" as well.

[charbydis]

He's one of the Zhao Yun actors in SGYY! It wasn't hard for me to recognize him because I remember him from "Tian Xia Liang Cang" as well.

Yay! Did Chaule get it?

I couldn't believe it at first because he looked so different. He looked quite ncie and clean in SGYY but he looks so ragged in here!

So I gather that you have watched up to the teenage Li Che Part? What do you think of that young actor? I think he acts pretty well.

[Lady Zhuge]

So I gather that you have watched up to the teenage Li Che Part? What do you think of that young actor? I think he acts pretty well.

I'm actually past that part now. Chen Bao Guo is now Liu Che. The actor who played Liu Che right before him bears a very striking resemblance to Chen Bao Guo (as he should since they play the same character); excellent casting! I thought the little kid they had playing Liu Zhi was very cute, but the teenage Liu Che looked more like a servant boy. I agree that his acting was decent, though. Jiao Huang is a good actor, but I thought he was a bit too old for the role of Jingdi. He looked about the same age as Gui Ya Lei who played his mother.

Ah Jiao is so annoying, even moreso than the one in DHTZ. She certainly lives up to her name.

I felt sorry for Zhou Ya Fu. Yes he was kind of arrogant, but he didn't deserve to die. I didn't think he would after his wife stopped him from committing suicide, but that just turned into false hope.

[charbydis]

I'm actually past that part now. Chen Bao Guo is now Liu Che. The actor who played Liu Che right before him bears a very striking resemblance to Chen Bao Guo (as he should since they play the same character); excellent casting! I thought the little kid they had playing Liu Zhi was very cute, but the teenage Liu Che looked more like a servant boy. I agree that his acting was decent, though. Jiao Huang is a good actor, but I thought he was a bit too old for the role of Jingdi. He looked about the same age as Gui Ya Lei who played his mother.

Ah Jiao is so annoying, even more so than the one in DHTZ. She certainly lives up to her name.

I felt sorry for Zhou Ya Fu. Yes he was kind of arrogant, but he didn't deserve to die. I didn't think he would after his wife stopped him from committing suicide, but that just turned into false hope.

Which one are you talking abotu? i was talking about the teenage one who got crowned? Were you talking about the one who was ultra agressive and starting shooting stones at Zhi Du? I dont; like that kid, he reminds me of my cousin.

hehe, did you know that teenage Liu Che (the one who was fooling around with Liu Ning), palyed by Du Chun, is the son of the actor who played Nian Gen Yao in YZHC?

I think the little kid looks cute too, but chaule doesn't like him!

I got a bit freaked out when I realised that CBG was playing 17, but after a while, you forget about it. I don't like the Ah Jiao here - she's just spoilt and jealous, but not bitter enough (if you hear the Chang Men Fu, it is very bitter). I prefer the one in DHTZ.

Well, I felt more sorry for Zhi Du's death than Zhou Ya Fu. Zhi Du died for a very tragic reason - he knew of a secret and had to be silenced. I think during that part, I really hated Empress Dowager Dou for a second.

I currently rewatching the whole thing again.

[Lady Zhuge]

Oh okay, so we were talking about two different actors. I didn't like the aggressive adolescent/young teenage one much either.

Maybe chaule thought you were referring to the aggressive adolescent/young teenage actor instead of the little kid.

No, I didn't know that Du Chun's father is Du Zhi Guo. Thanks for that bit of trivia. Hopefully he'll develop into as good of an actor as his dad.

CBG's makeup job was really well done. I didn't dwell on his real age vs. Liu Che's age in the series for very long at all.

Zhi Du's death was sad too. You only hated the Empress Dowager for a second?

I'm not even once through this series yet, but I already hope to watch it again someday when I can give it more complete attention. Right now it's one of my "help keep me awake while I study" tools.

What part are you at on the rewatch?

[charbydis]

Oh okay, so we were talking about two different actors. I didn't like the aggressive adolescent/young teenage one much either.

Maybe chaule thought you were referring to the aggressive adolescent/young teenage actor instead of the little kid.

No, I didn't know that Du Chun's father is Du Zhi Guo. Thanks for that bit of trivia. Hopefully he'll develop into as good of an actor as his dad.

CBG's makeup job was really well done. I didn't dwell on his real age vs. Liu Che's age in the series for very long at all.

Zhi Du's death was sad too. You only hated the Empress Dowager for a second?

I'm not even once through this series yet, but I already hope to watch it again someday when I can give it more complete attention. Right now it's one of my "help keep me awake while I study" tools.

What part are you at on the rewatch?

I just got pass where Princess Nan Gong got married off and the civil war is ending! Wow, that was a tear jerker!

CBG's makeup for when he is older is even more great! I didn't even recognise him! I think they stuck all this fake skin on him to make him look wrinkly.

Well, I hated the Empress Dowager for being to biased towards her younger son tot he embarassment fo her older one, as well as going too far to push for the death for Zhi Du. I thought she would have had a much further vison to see the importance of Zhi Du continuing to defend his bordertown and keep the whole city safe, versus the pain of Princess Nan Gong getting whipped (I think he lied, the letter was probably written by the eunuch).

That's why I never quite liked the Empress Dowager even until the end. I prefer women like Princess Nan Gong who can put the greater good over personal benefits.

[Lady Zhuge]

Tian Feng (or more accurately, the actor who plays him) seems so out of place in this series. He has a Taiwanese accent or something. They should have dubbed his voice.

[charbydis]

Tian Feng (or more accurately, the actor who plays him) seems so out of place in this series. He has a Taiwanese accent or something. They should have dubbed his voice.

Really, I thought it added to the humour. His accent is really funny - reminds me of Richie Ren. I think he did a good job as the two-faced Tian Fen.

[Lady Zhuge]

Really, I thought it added to the humour. His accent is really funny - reminds me of Richie Ren. I think he did a good job as the two-faced Tian Fen.

He's funny all right, but still out of place in the grand scheme of things. I just want to laugh whenever he opens his mouth. What did his father do, have an affair with a Taiwanese woman?



I'm up to the part where Liu Che's aunt (the oldest princess) had some of her lackeys abduct Wei Qing. It would have been a lot smarter to use a less conspicuous carriage to do so, 'cause Wei Qing's buddies could tell even in the dark that the carriage was from the princess' locale.

[charbydis]

I'm up to the part where Liu Che's aunt (the oldest princess) had some of her lackeys abduct Wei Qing. It would have been a lot smarter to use a less conspicuous carriage to do so, 'cause Wei Qing's buddies could tell even in the dark that the carriage was from the princess' locale.

I think that's the point. It showed that the lack of respect and the arrogance that the Grand Princess has for the law, she think she is above everything because she helped Liu Che get the throne. It explains why he hates her so much and never grew to like Ah Jiao. It sort of also explains his preferences in women.

I already am up to the part where Wei Qing is off to war!

[charbydis]

Hey Lady Zhuge, have you finished yet? I have finished the rewatch.

Have you figured out whether you have the cut version or not?

[chaule]

I actually thought he was partly responsible for his own downfall as well. If he hadn't been so arrogant and non-understanding, Han Jing Di may not have been afraid that his power would overide his young son. I don't think he suits a political life, I was sad when he returned. he could have been so happy and safe int eh country. Why did he come back?

Yes, he was a little arrogant. But that has always been his personality and I think Jing Di knew it very well. Yet, he was completely ok with it when he needed him and when he doesn't need him anymore, he start to feel trouble with it and made all kind of things to suppress him and finally take his life. That's one of the thing that I don't like most about emperors, they are quite ungrateful and cruel at times.

Yes, I was first exposed to the character in DHTZ and I was shocked. But then I bought Shi Ji and saw another interpretation. That one in DHTZ is so shallow!

Haha, so we both got to know Dou Ying from DHTZ and change our view on him from Shi Ji.

You heard they cut out filming Hou Qu Bing's battle at Lang Xu mountain right? It was originally in the script, but they never covered it. It pissed me because I was disappointed with the inaccuracy of the desert battle.

No, I didn't know about the cutting at all. So, did they filmed it but cut it out during editing or they changed their mind and didn't film it at all?

[chaule]

He's one of the Zhao Yun actors in SGYY! It wasn't hard for me to recognize him because I remember him from "Tian Xia Liang Cang" as well.

Yay! Did Chaule get it?.

I still couldn't recall him as Zhao Yun even after Lady Zhuge mention it. Lady Zhuge, you have a good memory. Then one night, it just suddenly pop into my head and I remember that he was the second actor played Zhao Yun, am I right?
As of Tian Xia Liang Cang, was he the servant of the young main character's father (sorry, I only saw it once on TV thus couldn't remember much)? I think he died in the end, am I right? I think his character there was very dark and looked evil at times. I didn't like his character there.

[charbydis]

SPOILERS

Yes, he was a little arrogant. But that has always been his personality and I think Jing Di knew it very well. Yet, he was completely ok with it when he needed him and when he doesn't need him anymore, he start to feel trouble with it and made all kind of things to suppress him and finally take his life. That's one of the thing that I don't like most about emperors, they are quite ungrateful and cruel at times.

I think that is the irony of life, it happens to all emperors, great or not, willing or not. Han Wu Di did it as well. So did the Xiong Nu guy. I feel so sad for everyone - of you under-perform, they kill you, and if you over-perform, they kill you too.

Haha, so we both got to know Dou Ying from DHTZ and change our view on him from Shi Ji.

Oh yeah. I guess it happened with most people as well. DHTZ wasn't a great historical series, but it sure did motivate poeple to fidn out more about him and the peple around him.

No, I didn't know about the cutting at all. So, did they filmed it but cut it out during editing or they changed their mind and didn't film it at all?

The wrote it but they didn't film it right at the end! In fact, did you hear they cut out the discussing strategies scenes for the final battle (I mean filmed but edited out) . The whole war seemed so rushed.

I was so disappointed. the desert war had one of the worst conclusions ever - what idiots can't tell 3000 men from 30,000 men?

[chaule]

Which one are you talking about? i was talking about the teenage one who got crowned? Were you talking about the one who was ultra agressive and starting shooting stones at Zhi Du? I dont; like that kid, he reminds me of my cousin.

Oh okay, so we were talking about two different actors. I didn't like the aggressive adolescent/young teenage one much either.

Maybe chaule thought you were referring to the aggressive adolescent/young teenage actor instead of the little kid.

Oh, it was the little kid you two were talking about. That kid was ok. I didn't like or dislike him. I was hoping for a cuter kid.

hehe, did you know that teenage Liu Che (the one who was fooling around with Liu Ning), palyed by Du Chun, is the son of the actor who played Nian Gen Yao in YZHC?

Huh, he's the actor played Nian Geng Yao's son? I liked the actor that played Nian Geng Yao as well. I thought he did great.

I got a bit freaked out when I realised that CBG was playing 17, but after a while, you forget about it. I don't like the Ah Jiao here - she's just spoilt and jealous, but not bitter enough (if you hear the Chang Men Fu, it is very bitter). I prefer the one in DHTZ.

Yes, Ah Jiao in this series is so much more annoying than DHTZ's.

Well, I felt more sorry for Zhi Du's death than Zhou Ya Fu. Zhi Du died for a very tragic reason - he knew of a secret and had to be silenced. I think during that part, I really hated Empress Dowager Dou for a second.

Yes, I felt very sad for Zhi Du as well. He was so loyal to the emperor and so talented and that also made me really dislike Empress Dowager for it. I think she was too emotional driven there. She had been wanted to kill him eversince the case of her younger son.

[charbydis]

Huh, he's the actor played Nian Geng Yao's son? I liked the actor that played Nian Geng Yao as well. I thought he did great.

No, Nien Geng Yao was played by Du Zhi Guo. The actor who played the 17 year old Liu Che was Du Chun. Du zhi Guo is his father in real life. I dont see the resemblance but hey, they both act great!

Yes, Ah Jiao in this series is so much more annoying than DHTZ's.

Yes, all I can see in her here is brattiness and brattiness. She doesn't give the sadness or disappointment that the one in DHTZ gave. It is so hard to feel for her though I do pity teh real Empress Chen.

Yes, I felt very sad for Zhi Du as well. He was so loyal to the emperor and so talented and that also made me really dislike Empress Dowager for it. I think she was too emotional driven there. She had been wanted to kill him ever since the case of her younger son.

There are so many talented people killed in this series! It is so depressing! No offense, Empress Dowager Dou is a great woman, but she isn't a great ruler. She's too emotional and keeps holding onto personal grudges.

I prefer Empress Wang who also had grudges, but will give way if you reason with her (e.g. Empress Wang gave in to Zhu Fu Yan as soon as she heard about King Yan's incest, and gave up protecting him) . Empress Dowager Dou is just over her head.