Cheung 3 Fung and the Yeun Ming Elder who kidnapped Cheung Mo Gei

[Ken Cheng]

When the Yeun Ming Elder who kidnapped the young Cheung Mo Gei brought the boy to Mt. Mo Dong, Cheung 3 Fung was able to defeat him easily and rescue the son of his beloved fifth student (Cheung Chui San). Probably nobody else in the martial world at the time could have defeated a Yeun Ming Elder so easily, but why didn't Cheung 3 Fung kill him? Cheung 3 Fung was a patient and merciful man, but the kidnapper was a vicious villain who thought nothing of torturing and nearly killing a young boy (who happened to be Cheung 3 Fung's grand-student). I'm surprised Cheung 3 Fung didn't kill him then and there.

[Anonymous]

Enlightened "Great One" does not kill. [ie. Sweeper]

[Arching_Hero]

So this mean Cheung 3 Fung did killed the Yuen Meing Elder later?

[Black Night Sea]

Zhang San Feng never laid a scratch on him (from the version I‘ve read), but merely stifled him. ZSF didn’t realise until he examined ZWJ’s body that he had suffered a fatal injury. All along, he and everyone else in the crowd presumed that he was a low-classed Mongolian troop with no special abilities. Many were agitated by ZCS’s and YSS’s suicides so weren't really concerned about Xuan Ming Elder's situation. The Xuan Ming elder kept a low profile so wasn’t really a threat at that time in the Jiang Hu.

[Dennis Chen]

My understanding was that anyone on the same level as Mie Jue Shi Tai (Guan Ming Zuo You Shi, 4 Guardians) could edge out 1 Yuan Ming Elder. 2 Yuan Ming Elders could easily defeat any of those people and give even Zhang San Feng a run for his money.

[Guo Xiang]

My understanding was that anyone on the same level as Mie Jue Shi Tai (Guan Ming Zuo You Shi, 4 Guardians) could edge out 1 Yuan Ming Elder. 2 Yuan Ming Elders could easily defeat any of those people and give even Zhang San Feng a run for his money.

Yes, except that the two Elders would not be able to give ZSF a run for his money.

[ToOn99]

Yes, except that the two Elders would not be able to give ZSF a run for his money.

because ZSF was a millionare j/k

[Black Night Sea]

My understanding was that anyone on the same level as Mie Jue Shi Tai (Guan Ming Zuo You Shi, 4 Guardians) could edge out 1 Yuan Ming Elder. 2 Yuan Ming Elders could easily defeat any of those people and give even Zhang San Feng a run for his money.

If it took a talentless fighter like ZWJ to defeat the both of them within 30 strokes. Then they're asking for trouble against a real fighter of ZSF's stature. The QKDNE conveniently eased ZWJ's efforts and honestly only losers like ZWJ and MRF would learn such a diverting technique.

[Dennis Chen]

If it took a talentless fighter like ZWJ to defeat the both of them within 30 strokes. Then they're asking for trouble against a real fighter of ZSF's stature. The QKDNE conveniently eased ZWJ's efforts and honestly only losers like ZWJ and MRF would learn such a diverting technique.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, isn't Tai Chi Quan a 'diverting technique'? Using your opponents power against him/her?

[S Beaver]

If it took a talentless fighter like ZWJ to defeat the both of them within 30 strokes. Then they're asking for trouble against a real fighter of ZSF's stature. The QKDNE conveniently eased ZWJ's efforts and honestly only losers like ZWJ and MRF would learn such a diverting technique.

whether ZWJ is talentless or not is arguable...but he did have a few of the most advanced techniques and strongest internal power abundance exisiting

[Han Solo]

My understanding was that anyone on the same level as Mie Jue Shi Tai (Guan Ming Zuo You Shi, 4 Guardians) could edge out 1 Yuan Ming Elder. 2 Yuan Ming Elders could easily defeat any of those people and give even Zhang San Feng a run for his money.

Don't think so.

Yeung Siu who's one of the L/R emissaries of the Ming Cult couldn't defeat them, and he's probably at the level of the 4 Ming Cult Guardian or better.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Yang Xiao is supposed to be better than the 4 guardians.

[kyss of the sword]

[{quote=hansolo}Yeung Siu who's one of the L/R emissaries of the Ming Cult couldn't defeat them, and he's probably at the level of the 4 Ming Cult Guardian or better]

yang xiao was slighty better then the four kings as he had the 1st level of qiankian reversal skill; left envoy on par with him but no QKDY so might lose to yang xiao. the yuan ming elders were probably at the same level as mie jue, with the advantage of an lethal unortodox skill(jink's palm). the four kings were better then mie jue in their special skills but not in others.
purple dragon had higher inner energy but sword skills below hers ,others skills probably on par.
white eagle higher inner strenght and claws, others maybe not up to hers.
green bat wins in hinggong(light skill) ,others skills below.
gold lion better then her in all but sword(constantly learned new skills from manuals of opponents he killed).

the strenght of the yuan ming elders was not better then mingsect leaders or mie jue but when they fought together , bad a*sed all the way.

[kyss of the sword]

[Originally Posted by Hanky Panky}If it took a talentless fighter like ZWJ to defeat the both of them within 30 strokes. Then they're asking for trouble against a real fighter of ZSF's stature. The QKDNE conveniently eased ZWJ's efforts and honestly only losers like ZWJ and MRF would learn such a diverting technique]

ZWJ is not a loser, he was a martial arts talent on par with yang guo and the greats, if he had trouble in his fights, it wasn't because he 'sucked' but because of his kind nature and ZSF influence , he tried not to kill his opponents and he was outnumbered. the yuan ming elders were no push over, they were at least the same level as the wudang hero(s) song(the 1st disiple, forgot his first name) and a lot more exprienced fighting as a team. one on one , wuji beats the hell out of them. and he did later on fighting both of them at once.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Zhang Wu Ji was a martial arts genius.

That being said, he was a terrible, terrible, terrible fighter.

[Athena]

The Xuanming Elders should be ranked under the Du elders of Shaolin but above many others (including Yang Xiao, Fan Yao, Yin Tianzheng, Xie Xun, Wei Yixiao, Miejue Shi-Tai and the remaining 5 Heroes of Wudang).
Zhang Wuji was very certain that even if Xie Xun wasn't blind, he would not be a match for either Lu Zhangke or He Biweng.
When Zhang Wuji saw Xie Xun fighting Granny Goldenflower, he rated Xie Xun as the same level as Yin Tianzheng and above Wei Yixiao.
And according to the novel, Yin Tianzheng, Yang Xiao and even Fan Yao were equals.

[Athena]

A rather old post of mine, but quite relevant to this thread.

Xie Xun is a good fighter and a good martial artist. He is about the same level as Yin Tianzheng, Fan Yao, Yang Xiao, Miejue Shi-tai etc.
Duwei, Dujie and Dunan were even more powerful than (individually) than any of the Xuanming elders (also individually). And He Biweng, Lu Zhangke were much stronger than Xie Xun, Zhang Wuji was very certain that even if Xie Xun was not blind he could never defeat either one of the Xuanming Elders.
So, Xie Xun could never be able to defeat Shaolin elders of the Du generation in actual combat.
Yuanzhen (Cheng Kun) was about the same level as I think Dujie and Dunan. Note, that Duwei was somewhat superior to his two other martial arts brothers.
Furthermore, Fang Dongbai, A' Er and A San were also excellent martial arts experts. Each of them could be better than Yang Xiao and Fan Yao. (Just because the sword stances, techniques and/or theories of Fan Yao are higher than Fang Dongbai does not mean he is superior to Fang Dongbai in actual combat).
Abbot Kongwen, reverends Kongzhi and Kongxing were probably also as good as Xie Xun or even better.

The people Xie Xun killed were all respectable martial artists with a good name but did not have very high martial arts.

Two extra characters who play really a minor role in HSDS are often forgotten. But their martial arts are very high, perhaps even better than Yang Xiao and Fan Yao. At least the two of them should be equal to them. These two mysterious experts are Po Tai and Hao Mi, also known as The Two Demons of Hejian Prefecture. Both were elderly men with long black beards. One uses a acu-sealing rod and the other uses a pair of judge's brushes, they attacked the three Shaolin elders when Zhang Wuji had just explained Cheng Kun's intentions.
The Two Demons and five other experts attacked, because the three old monks were distracted by Zhang Wuji their formation could not be used to stop these eight experts.
So, three attacked Duwei, another three attacked Dunan and Hao Mi, Po Tai attacked Dujie. They were even gaining the upper hand. Note Dujie was the second martial arts brother of the three Dus. Dunan was the third brother, Yin Tianzheng and Yang Xiao were only able to roughly tie with Dunan. While these two were able to gain the upper hand. I think that is most impressive.
.

[Exodus]

Although ZWJ got lucky, learned 9 Yang, QKDNE and Tai Chi Fist/swordplay he still had alot of problem facing opponents that were alot weaker.

He had some trouble in the bright peak, and he only won just because he had the deepest internal energy. I bet XF could win at the peak quite easily without breaking a sweat

ZWJ just lacked the killer/fighting instinct that would make him truly great!

[Candide]

Although ZWJ got lucky, learned 9 Yang, QKDNE and Tai Chi Fist/swordplay he still had alot of problem facing opponents that were alot weaker.

A lot of problems? I disagree. He wasn't very sharp against those opponents but he didn't have "a lot of problems". Opponents like the Xuan Ming elders weren't "a lot weaker" than him either. He could defeat them but to kill them is very difficult. The Xuan Ming elders have reached a level that ZWJ had to fully concentrate to use QKDNY level 7 against them. When ZWJ coudln't concentrate, he didn't dare to use this level since they were very powerful and any mishap would lead to his own fire deviation.

He had some trouble in the bright peak, and he only won just because he had the deepest internal energy.

Of course he would have some troubles. He didn't know any worthy technique then and he had to beat them while keeping face for them at the same time. That was a very hard task.

I bet XF could win at the peak quite easily without breaking a sweat

Beat them up, XF can. Make friends at the same time and convince them to go home... not an easy task even for XF.

ZWJ just lacked the killer/fighting instinct that would make him truly great!

That I agree with.

[Ken Cheng]

The Xuanming Elders should be ranked under the Du elders of Shaolin but above many others (including Yang Xiao, Fan Yao, Yin Tianzheng, Xie Xun, Wei Yixiao, Miejue Shi-Tai and the remaining 5 Heroes of Wudang).

Oddly, when Fan Yiu told Mit Jeut See Tai that he had tricked Ho But Yung into believing that he (Fan Yiu) and Mit Jeut See Tai had produced Chow Chi Yerk as an illegitimate daughter, Ho But Yung was terrified of the enraged Mit Jeut See Tai. Did he need to be afraid? Mit Jeut See Tai was infamously fierce, but her martial arts were weaker than that of Ho But Yung's. Moreover, she had not recovered her inner power after having been poisoned by the Mongols (she had taken the antidote, but it had not yet taken full effect, so she was still very weak). It didn't seem like Ho had anything to worry about, but he was terrified of Mit Jeut See Tai.