House of Flying Daggers

[Eliar Swiftfire]

my cousin in taiwan told me the movie sucks!

Yes, my mother's cousin's godmom's brother-in-law's daughter's secret lover's uncle's gay lover's sister told me it sucked too.

[Temujin]

*** contains spoiler, read at your own risk ***

I finished watching the HK Edko's DVD DTS version last night. Takeshi used his own voice, even with that horrible Mandarin, that's for sure, and so did Andy Lau.

The movie was filled with artistic choreography, beautiful period costumes, amazing fight scenes (although some gravity-defying dagger throwing scenes are overused), breathtaking sceneries, extravagant although sometimes over-the-top visual effects. It was as if I was watching a set of fast-moving, brilliant artistic photographs from the Master, called Zhang Yi Mou.

This was by no means a blockbuster of its own, another milestone in Zhang's directing career, a lighter version of 'Hero' which focused primarily on love triangle between the three leading characters, Jin (Takeshi), Leo (Andy), and Xiao Mei (Zhang Zi Yi).

Mr. Zhang's talent for visual perfection, a candid reflection of modern moving image is without a doubt, in a league of his own, only surpassed by a very few other Directors worldwide. 'The House of Flying Dagger' offers an visual fiesta during the Peony Pavillion scene, and Takeshi's acting, for once, held his own and gives us a believable look of his role. Yi Zi's acting as a blind showgirl also proved that her usually stagnant performance has evolved and she is now a more versatile actress, who is able to take her talent to another level. She looked stunning as well.

But what a movie needs is a believable storyline, not necessarily complex, and hence a good scripts, and this movie lacks just that. So all the praises and glory for Mr. Zhang stopped here.

After the Peony Pavillion scene, the story moved forward, and nevertheless we were fed with the forest, field, and bamboo forest scene. These follow-up scenes were there to show us how Takeshi and Yi Zi develop their affection in such a short time, and it failed to give me this impression. I did, however, agree that the chemistry between them worked but short of love.

Andy Lau's constant wooden performance also did not help the movie to develop further. He looked tense and physically aging. The rape scene provides evidence of his unsatisfactory performance, although having a much better acting skills than he used to. The love triangle that Mr. Zhang is trying to show us therefore falls short.

The most disappointment I have was the ending scene. It gave me the impression that the story is incomplete and did not have a satisfactory closure to a such beautifully filmed beginning -The Peony Pavillion scene. Is this because Anita Mui passed away during the filming ? So that they had to revised and worked around the story to give it a different ending ? The duel scene between Takeshi and Andy was actually quite descent, but totally ruined when Yi Zi suddenly woke up for her death. Mr. Zhang could have done it differently. The changing season worked to dramatize the final duel, at least for me, as most Asian movies like to do, although this would spark more critiques and more fans scratching their heads due to the illogical arguments as well. Then at the very end, there was an English song when the credit started to roll.

I wish Mr. Zhang all the success in the world, but I beg him to revaluate his roots, which is to provide us with catchy visual galore with quality storyline.

[Yon]

My Aniki's madarine was far better improved... I want to hear his Cantonese... I am melting now~~

I watched this some time ago, and yeah.. it sux, but... I GET TO WATCH.. ANIKI!! MY ANIKI!!!!

**Granny faints*

The theme song "Lovers" is a saver at the end. I fell in love with it, and I realize how much I miss Operas that I watched when I was in Europe.. *sigh*

Aniki was... soo Yummy!

[Dagger Lee]

The movie was good but I was bit disappointed with the ending. Like whatever happened to The House of Flying Daggers?

[alecforever815]

i saw this movie in china during the summer and i was pretty surprised. i've never really liked zhang yi mou's productions, and hero in my opinion wasn't so good, but this movie was pretty decent. of course i'm not andy, takeshi, or zhang zi yi fan, but the overall feel of the movie is pretty good. and some of the scenes are beautiful and i think the fighting scenes and special effects are nicely done

[movie fan#1]

I on the other hand really liked this movie. I think this movie could be of great quality if they worked on the story and plot some more.

[babybunny]

This one was a little bit more entertaining than Hero.

[Laviathan]

I really liked this movie.

Unlike CTHD and Hero, House of Flying Daggers was actually a real Wuxia movie.

The problem with CTHD was that the story was based on a Wuxia novel, and a movie just doesn't have the amount of time to spend on character development which the story deserves. The result is that the viewer gets the idea that there's too many bits and pieces of info given in too little time without ever fully grasping the essence of the story. Hero is more of a historical fantasy movie, where the emphasis is placed on artistic elements... In many cases, the fightings scenes were unnecessary (why would Nameless and Broken Sword fight at the lake?) and did not contribute to the story. It's just eye-candy.

But House of Flying Daggers has a simple plot which actually works for a Wuxia movie, very refreshing for a change. Takeshi and Zhang Ziyi are fleeing for soldiers, and clashes with the pursuers regularly. The fighting therefore makes sense.

Furthermore, unlike CTHD and Hero, the characters of House of Flying Daggers are pieces in a great game, unable to control their own fate. In CTHD, Jen does not have to steal the Green Destiny Sword. Li Mubai does not necessary have to force her to become his pupil. Their stubborn behaviour decided the course of the movie. In Hero, the King of Qin controls the destiny of the realm, while Nameless controls the fate of the King (life or death)... But the decision of Nameless is influenced by Broken Sword's philosophy. The abovementioned characters are the players who decide the game, while Jin (Takeshi), Leo (Andy) and Xiaomei (Zhang) are merely pawns.

As a constable, Jin has a duty to fulfill. Xiao, being a member of the House of Flying Daggers, has a mission to accomplish. Leo is a spy. These three characters were doomed before the movie even begins, because as pawns of two opposing forces they are bound to be sacrificed for the cause. In the end, the three of them each decide to abandon the cause to pursue their own dreams, but due to their past, they collide again... Only this time, they are the players, not the pieces.

This is in my opinion, very "Wuxia", something I like very much.

That's why in the end, we do not know what happens with the House of Flying Daggers and the government troops. Once the main characters chose to act on their own, they have broken with the two forces. The House of Flying Daggers is not important anymore. I liked it very much, it leaves much room for one's own imagination.

The character Jin is an arrogant playboy, totally unlike Li Mubai (dull and stiff gentleman) or Nameless (emotionless and cold warrior). Jin cannot even be considered a real hero. That's so refreshing! Yes people, the main character of an artistic Chinese martial arts movie does NOT need to be dull and boring, thank you very much.

Zhang Ziyi was NOT annoying, for a change.

Andy Lau had the most difficult role of all. He has to play the villain, perform a rape scene, kill the female lead... and still make viewers relate to his emotions, his pain and agony. It is very hard to play a villain, a traitor, a rapist and a murderer in the same movie and still make the viewers feel pity and sympathy for you. Andy Lau succeeded in this. Yes, i agree he looked tensed and tired, but he still did a good job.

So, I truly feel that there are many elements in House of Flying Daggers which deserve my praise and appreciation.

In the end, there were only a few points I want to comment on:

1. In the beginning, a historical background was given for the movie, but apart from the costume Zhang Ziyi wore at the Peony Pavillion, no details were shown that this story indeed takes place during the Tang Dynasty. Actually, the story could have happened in any era. So, it gave me a rather strange feeling: why give us viewers a Chinese text describing the historical background, when in the actual movie no historical elements are used?

2. The members of the House of Flying Daggers should not have appeared at all, making it more mysterious.

3. Zhang Ziyi suddenly coming back to life.

[PJ]

But House of Flying Daggers has a simple plot which actually works for a Wuxia movie, very refreshing for a change.

a simple story that is predictable, filled with wooden acting from actors whose accents seem to betray their Tang dynasty identity. The romance between Ziyi and Takeshi seems to have come out of nowhere. I can't feel any emotion throughout the movie EXCEPT at the end with Andy Lau's pain.

That's why in the end

But we also had to sit through Takeshi's horrible humming of the "Bei fang you jia ren" tune, which I imagine didn't help most people's viewing experience.

Andy Lau succeeded in this.

Something I can agree with. I hope he does more villain roles like this.

The rest of your remarks I more or less agree with, but unfortunately I do not think Flying Daggers brings any interesting ideas to the cinema or the wuxia genre. Nor does it work for me as an ordinary tale, due to the minimal effort on acting and script.

As a side note, I think all 3 movies suffer from poor acting and rather lifeless Mandarin dialogues. For this reason they are all far from perfect.

[Laviathan]

a simple story that is predictable, filled with wooden acting from actors whose accents seem to betray their Tang dynasty identity.

Yes, the story is predictable, but wooden acting? The only ones who did the acting were Zhang, Lau and Takeshi. And most of the time they were fighting anyway... It wasn't bad.

And I don't understand why people always need to comment on the accents. Yes, Takeshi Kaneshiro is half Japanese, half Taiwanese, while Andy Lau is from Hongkong. They do have an accent. Frankly, the majority of the Chinese people (living in PRC or abroad) have an accent when speaking Mandarin. And there are lots of non-HK actors who speak Cantonese with an accent when they appear in HK productions (Shu Qi for example). But strangely enough, I never hear people complain.

The romance between Ziyi and Takeshi seems to have come out of nowhere.

Yep, it wasn't love, more like sexual attraction (and that didn't really work either, not much chemistry or sparks between those two).

but unfortunately I do not think Flying Daggers brings any interesting ideas to the cinema or the wuxia genre. Nor does it work for me as an ordinary tale, due to the minimal effort on acting and script.

I agree. House of Flying Daggers is not a movie you can watch more than once. CTHD and Hero have a certain depth, they have elements which can make them interesting. House has great fighting scenes, and that's about it. But it is quite refreshing, at least to me.

As a side note, I think all 3 movies suffer from poor acting and rather lifeless Mandarin dialogues. For this reason they are all far from perfect.

I understand, but then again, what movie do you consider a good wuxia film?

[Moinllieon]

And I don't understand why people always need to comment on the accents. Yes, Takeshi Kaneshiro is half Japanese, half Taiwanese, while Andy Lau is from Hongkong. They do have an accent. Frankly, the majority of the Chinese people (living in PRC or abroad) have an accent when speaking Mandarin. And there are lots of non-HK actors who speak Cantonese with an accent when they appear in HK productions (Shu Qi for example). But strangely enough, I never hear people complain.

I'd like to this opportunity to state that I, in fact, do NOT have an accent when speaking Mandarin. Go me! I rule!

[Laviathan]

I'd like to this opportunity to state that I, in fact, do NOT have an accent when speaking Mandarin. Go me! I rule!

Hmm, IIRC, your family is from Hunan, right? You sure you don't have Hunan accent?

[Moinllieon]

Hmm, IIRC, your family is from Hunan, right? You sure you don't have Hunan accent?

My grandfather is from Jiangxi, my grandmother is from Zhejiang, my mother's family is from Liaoning, my mother is from Guizhou, my parents lived together in Nanjing, and I grew up in Wuhan. If I do have an accent it would be one hell of an interesting one. But unfortunately, I can't even pick up a Wuhan accent after spending half of my life there. That's what I get for learning my Chinese from television, the scurge of all accents. Most Chinese people are all very surprised that I'm from the mainland and that I've been in America for 10+ years when they first talk me because my Chinese is "better" than theirs. It's a ego-trip, let me tell ya.

BTW, is there a generic Hunan accent? Living in Hubei, we kinda looked down on Hunan.

In related news, I don't have an accent when speaking English either (the watered-down American version, of course).

[Dagger Lee]

a simple story that is predictable, filled with wooden acting from actors whose accents seem to betray their Tang dynasty identity. The romance between Ziyi and Takeshi seems to have come out of nowhere. I can't feel any emotion throughout the movie EXCEPT at the end with Andy Lau's pain.



But we also had to sit through Takeshi's horrible humming of the "Bei fang you jia ren" tune, which I imagine didn't help most people's viewing experience.



Something I can agree with. I hope he does more villain roles like this.

The rest of your remarks I more or less agree with, but unfortunately I do not think Flying Daggers brings any interesting ideas to the cinema or the wuxia genre. Nor does it work for me as an ordinary tale, due to the minimal effort on acting and script.

As a side note, I think all 3 movies suffer from poor acting and rather lifeless Mandarin dialogues. For this reason they are all far from perfect.

I agree with you about Takeshi's singing. I just couldn't stand it. The love story didn't make much sense to me at all.

[expression]

Heh, is there a "standard accent" for Mandarin? Or is it just that everyone will have his own "accent" to this National language?

[Dagger Lee]

We should probably start a thread about Mandarin accents

[Moinllieon]

We should probably start a thread about Mandarin accents

Probably a good idea... but not here. Sorry for taking this thread off topic. Anyways, back to uh... the movie.

[Yon]

Probably a good idea... but not here. Sorry for taking this thread off topic. Anyways, back to uh... the movie.

OO.. I will start. Takeshi Kaneshiro was HOTTTTTTTTT! He rocked my world while I was watching the movie. My dear friend and I licked the poster outside of movie theater.. LOL.. J/k

[Laviathan]

My grandfather is from Jiangxi, my grandmother is from Zhejiang, my mother's family is from Liaoning, my mother is from Guizhou, my parents lived together in Nanjing, and I grew up in Wuhan. If I do have an accent it would be one hell of an interesting one. But unfortunately, I can't even pick up a Wuhan accent after spending half of my life there. That's what I get for learning my Chinese from television, the scurge of all accents. Most Chinese people are all very surprised that I'm from the mainland and that I've been in America for 10+ years when they first talk me because my Chinese is "better" than theirs. It's a ego-trip, let me tell ya.

Wow, with such a diversity within your family, it's amazing that you don't have an accent. Excellent!

BTW, is there a generic Hunan accent? Living in Hubei, we kinda looked down on Hunan.

Oops, sorry. I wasn't sure you were from Hubei or Hunan. Hunan accent is very thick, in general...

OK, back to the movie.

[realdeal]

Hehe, I kinda wish that you guys keep talking about accents. Fun topic.