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Thread: Hypocrisy of the HSDS 6 Sects

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Candide
    I again disagree with this The Wudang heroes had very high status in wulin. They were the equals of the other school leaders (that's why they went there and ZSF didn't). They should not gang up on Yan.
    Heheheh, stretching it a bit aren't we? The fact that Z3F was actually meditating and doing that whole "locking myself up" thing has nothing to do with it?

    The 6 monks did it out of both: respect and desperation. The latter case: it doesn't matter: even if they weren't desperate (i.e not a dead or alive situation), they would have to do it out of respect anyway.
    Uh... no. Once YG got strong enough to take on the Golden Wheel Monk, he did. Once LHC got strong enough to fight against Tian Bo Guang fairly, he did, and beat him. Those 6 monks were so "respectful" of Jiu Mo Zhi that they risked letting Duan Yu die in order to preserve energy for the on-coming fight. In fact, since Jiu Mo Zhi was technically not a "wulin person", there was "no need" to follow wulin rules. After all, they merely ganged up on a strong outsider (much like how the "heroes" ganged up on Xiao Feng at the "Heroes' Gathering"). I guess all of those foes ganged up on Xiao Feng out of respect too.

    The reason, more or less, those people "got away with it" is because their foes (Tian Bo Guang, Golden Wheel Monk, etc.) allowed it because they were trying to eliminate excuses for their foes.
    春花秋月几时了,
    往事知多少?
    小楼昨夜又东风,
    故国不堪回首明月中.
    雕栏玉砌应犹在,
    只是朱颜改.
    问君能有几多愁,
    恰似一江春水向东流.
    --南唐后主,李煜.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moinllieon
    Heheheh, stretching it a bit aren't we? The fact that Z3F was actually meditating and doing that whole "locking myself up" thing has nothing to do with it?
    Has nothing to do with it. If you read HSDS again, you'll see that it's mentioned many times that ZSF's status in wulin means that his students were equals of the other school leaders and could take care of everything for him.

    Uh... no. Once YG got strong enough to take on the Golden Wheel Monk, he did. Once LHC got strong enough to fight against Tian Bo Guang fairly, he did, and beat him. Those 6 monks were so "respectful" of Jiu Mo Zhi that they risked letting Duan Yu die in order to preserve energy for the on-coming fight. In fact, since Jiu Mo Zhi was technically not a "wulin person", there was "no need" to follow wulin rules. After all, they merely ganged up on a strong outsider (much like how the "heroes" ganged up on Xiao Feng at the "Heroes' Gathering"). I guess all of those foes ganged up on Xiao Feng out of respect too.

    The reason, more or less, those people "got away with it" is because their foes (Tian Bo Guang, Golden Wheel Monk, etc.) allowed it because they were trying to eliminate excuses for their foes.
    I know you're right, but I think we're talking about different things here. "Technically" YG et al had to do it out of respect, but what they actually did was a different matter. I never said that they aren't full of Sith. You know what I think about Yang Guo and Linghu Chung
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

    "I disapprove of what I say, but I will defend to the death my right to say it."

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Candide
    Has nothing to do with it. If you read HSDS again, you'll see that it's mentioned many times that ZSF's status in wulin means that his students were equals of the other school leaders and could take care of everything for him.
    Or maybe because ZSF is too lazy to care. Clever he is. Making himself so "respected" that his equals started viewing his underlings as their equals.

    I know you're right, but I think we're talking about different things here. "Technically" YG et al had to do it out of respect, but what they actually did was a different matter. I never said that they aren't full of Sith. You know what I think about Yang Guo and Linghu Chung
    You are making Sith sound like a good thing. Actually, it's a helluva lot more fun.

    http://www.pixelred.com/pages/sw_switch.htm
    春花秋月几时了,
    往事知多少?
    小楼昨夜又东风,
    故国不堪回首明月中.
    雕栏玉砌应犹在,
    只是朱颜改.
    问君能有几多愁,
    恰似一江春水向东流.
    --南唐后主,李煜.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moinllieon
    Or maybe because ZSF is too lazy to care. Clever he is. Making himself so "respected" that his equals started viewing his underlings as their equals.
    What are you talking about? Look at the age difference. ZSF was the equal of those school leaders' grandmasters. Take Emei for instance. If you view ZSF as the equal of Guo Xiang, then Mie Jue should've called the Wudang heroes her "martial uncles".
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

    "I disapprove of what I say, but I will defend to the death my right to say it."

  5. #25
    Senior Member Laviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candide
    The 6 monks did it out of both: respect and desperation. The latter case: it doesn't matter: even if they weren't desperate (i.e not a dead or alive situation), they would have to do it out of respect anyway.
    The Six Monks of Dali are, of course, right in that they teamed-up to face Jiumozhi. I mean, this is not a duel according to Wulin rules: Jiumozhi is there to steal their ancestral manuel of Liumai Shenjian by force, and the monks are totally entitled to defend their temple's property. If a burglar entered my home, me and my stepfather and my brothers can gang up to subdue the thief... We're not going to fight one-on-one just because it seems "fair". That would be ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Candide
    5) In that case, the 6 schools wouldn't hold back at all. It was war, after all, although their actions were the opposite of what they preached and exactly the same as what they accused the Ming cult of.
    Look, the six schools formed an alliance to destroy the Ming Cult, and obviously they outnumber the Ming Cult members. They could have easily massacred them, but Revenrend Kongzhi still gave the Heavenly Eagle Cult a chance to survival by accepting one-on-one combat. Please note that they played according to the rules as set by Eagle Lord Yin Tianzheng. As long as there's still one Eagle Cult member standing, the Ming Cult would remain unharmed. I mean, the Six Orthodox Schools were winning the battle and they could have easily finished them. But they still acted according to Wulin rules, so it's a bit harsh to call them hypocrites int his particular situation... I mean, you might as well say that it was "unfair" for the SIX Schools to team-up against the SINGLE Ming Cult, or that it was unfair of the Brits, Sovjets and Americans to team-up against Nazi-Germany (that's more or less how the Orthodox Schools saw their cause).
    Last edited by Laviathan; 01-22-05 at 09:42 AM.
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  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Candide
    What are you talking about? Look at the age difference. ZSF was the equal of those school leaders' grandmasters. Take Emei for instance. If you view ZSF as the equal of Guo Xiang, then Mie Jue should've called the Wudang heroes her "martial uncles".
    I was just messing around. In terms of seniority and the "generation" thing, ZSF is of a generation above most of the leaders. Can't a guy have a little bit of a fun at an old geezer's expense?
    春花秋月几时了,
    往事知多少?
    小楼昨夜又东风,
    故国不堪回首明月中.
    雕栏玉砌应犹在,
    只是朱颜改.
    问君能有几多愁,
    恰似一江春水向东流.
    --南唐后主,李煜.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moinllieon
    Can't a guy have a little bit of a fun at an old geezer's expense?
    No you can't, naughty boy. Now go sit in the corner or I'll...spank you.

    But they still acted according to Wulin rules, so it's a bit harsh to call them hypocrites int his particular situation...
    The thing is, I don't think they were doing it because they wanted to adhere to the rules. I believe Kongzhi accepted the Eagle Lord's rules in a similar way to a cat playing with a mouse that it caught...
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

    "I disapprove of what I say, but I will defend to the death my right to say it."

  8. #28
    Senior Member Laviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candide
    The thing is, I don't think they were doing it because they wanted to adhere to the rules. I believe Kongzhi accepted the Eagle Lord's rules in a similar way to a cat playing with a mouse that it caught...
    I don't know about the other guys, but it was stated that Yin Tianzheng forced Kongzhi to comply to Wulin rules. I can imagine that most people of the Orthodox Schools did not agree with this, since their victory was almost secured and there's still a certain risk in settling it by one-on-one combat.
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