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Thread: Nationality Question

  1. #1
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    Default Nationality Question

    Were both Ouyang Feng and DuGu Qiu Bai of Turkish descent?

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Chen
    Were both Ouyang Feng and DuGu Qiu Bai of Turkish descent?
    West Poison Au Yeung Fung made his home in Turkestan, but it's never been said that he was an ethnic Turk (doubtful, considering his "Au Yeung" surname). Dook Goo Kau Bai has been rumored to have been a Siberian.

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    Senior Member Laviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    West Poison Au Yeung Fung made his home in Turkestan, but it's never been said that he was an ethnic Turk (doubtful, considering his "Au Yeung" surname).
    It was stated in the novel that he is a citizen of the Western Regions, and that he was taller than the Han Chinese. So it was more or less implied that he had foreign blood. Maybe his ancestor was a Han Chinese who married a "barbarian", or his family was originally Turk and later adopted a Chinese surname. The fact that Ouyang Feng succesfully pretended to be a barbarian soldier of Genghis Khan and Guo Jing's legions, proves that he looked rather non-Chinese and at least was partially Turk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    Dook Goo Kau Bai has been rumored to have been a Siberian.
    I wonder where this rumour came from?

    The Dugu Tribe was one faction of the Xiongnu (Huns) residing in present-day Inner-Mongolia and Shanxi province. In the Northern Wei Dynasty (北魏 386-534) the Dugu Clan intermarried with the Xianbei royal family and became residents of Henan Province. The first emperor of the Sui Dynasty, Yang Jian, was married to Empress Dugu who gave birth to the infamous tyrant Emperor Yang Guang (he built the Grand Canal).

    Dugu Qiubai, therefore, is of Hun origin, with blood ties to the Xianbei and Han-Chinese ethnicities.
    對 敵 須 狠 , 斬 草 除 根 , 男 女 老 幼 , 不 留 一 人

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    Senior Member Exodus's Avatar
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    What about Tse Tseun was he really a "gwai lo" since he had golden hair?

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    Did the book ever say what Hong Qigong and Hwang Yaoshi were?

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    Hans, their family names pretty much tells it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Chen
    Did the book ever say what Hong Qigong and Hwang Yaoshi were?
    Their ethnicity was Han Chinese.

    But their NATIONALITIES were different. Hong Qigong was a Jin Empire citizen, a slave whose family worked for the Jin rulers. Huang Yaoshi on the other hand was the grandson of a Southern Song official and belonged to the elite.
    對 敵 須 狠 , 斬 草 除 根 , 男 女 老 幼 , 不 留 一 人

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laviathan

    I wonder where this rumour came from?

    The Dugu Tribe was one faction of the Xiongnu (Huns) residing in present-day Inner-Mongolia and Shanxi province. In the Northern Wei Dynasty (北魏 386-534) the Dugu Clan intermarried with the Xianbei royal family and became residents of Henan Province. The first emperor of the Sui Dynasty, Yang Jian, was married to Empress Dugu who gave birth to the infamous tyrant Emperor Yang Guang (he built the Grand Canal).

    Dugu Qiubai, therefore, is of Hun origin, with blood ties to the Xianbei and Han-Chinese ethnicities.
    I vaguely remember Jin Yong mentioning in an interview when questioned about Dugu Qiubai, that he was from Siberia ... not too sure where or when though ... =(

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    Senior Member SkineePanda's Avatar
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    Here is the many multi-cultural characters of Jinyong:

    Princess Fragrance - Uyghur(?)
    Blue Pheonix - Miao
    Ni Mo Xing - Indian
    Yin Kexi - Hui
    Jinlun Fawang - Tibetan
    Wanyan HongLie - Jurchen
    Xiao Feng - Khitan
    Zhao Min - Mongol
    Murong Fu - Xianbei
    Duan Yu - Bai
    KangXi - Manchu
    Princess Sophia - Russian
    Purple Cloth Dragon King - Persian mix
    Xiao Longnu - albino

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkineePanda
    Yin Kexi - Hui
    I thought he was a Persian.

    Chiu Mun's entire family was Uighur as well.

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    Xiao Longnu was an albino?

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    Senior Member Han Solo's Avatar
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    XLN is also a han.
    and she's no albino. Her hair and eyes were described as dark, i think.


    Han solo is obviously a han.

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    I never seen an asian that is albino

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    Senior Member SkineePanda's Avatar
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    She was white as snow, it was a joke.

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    Senior Member Laviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkineePanda
    Princess Fragrance - Uyghur(?)
    The historical Lady Fragrance was an Uyghur, but Jin Yong's Princess Fragrance was of Hui ethnicity.

    Quote Originally Posted by SkineePanda
    Yin Kexi - Hui
    Persian.

    Quote Originally Posted by SkineePanda
    Jinlun Fawang - Tibetan
    In the 3rd edition, Jin Yong changed him into a Mongolian.

    Quote Originally Posted by SkineePanda
    Duan Yu - Bai
    In the 3rd edition of LOCH, Jin Yong verified that the Duan family of Dali were descended from the Xianbei tribe (just like the Murongs). Duan Yu is therefore a mix of Xianbei and Bai.

    Quote Originally Posted by SkineePanda
    KangXi - Manchu
    Strictly speaking, Kangxi is 50% Han, 25% Mongol and only 25% Manchu.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    Chiu Mun's entire family was Uighur as well.
    I beg to differ:

    The historical Chakan Timur was Uyghur, that's correct. But Wang Baobao (Brother of Zhao Min) was Chakan's adopted son, and whose biological father was in fact a Han-Chinese. So the family was surely not entirely Uyghur.

    In the Jin Yong Universe, Zhao Min and her family were Mongols.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laviathan
    The Dugu Tribe was one faction of the Xiongnu (Huns) residing in present-day Inner-Mongolia and Shanxi province. In the Northern Wei Dynasty (北魏 386-534) the Dugu Clan intermarried with the Xianbei royal family and became residents of Henan Province. The first emperor of the Sui Dynasty, Yang Jian, was married to Empress Dugu who gave birth to the infamous tyrant Emperor Yang Guang (he built the Grand Canal).

    Dugu Qiubai, therefore, is of Hun origin, with blood ties to the Xianbei and Han-Chinese ethnicities.
    Dugu Qiubai might just be a nickname he gave himself to indicate how lonely he is being no.1 fighter with no good opponent to fight with. He might not be related to the Dugu family at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kidd
    Dugu Qiubai might just be a nickname he gave himself to indicate how lonely he is being no.1 fighter with no good opponent to fight with. He might not be related to the Dugu family at all.
    First name: OK, might be his own idea...

    But his last name? I mean, it would be pretty pathetic to call yourself Dugu just because you want to emphasize you being lonely, right?

    Anyhoo, Jin Yong just named him Dugu Qiubai because it sounds cool. But Dennis Chen asked about ethnicity, so I tried to give a logical explanation. I'm sure he's not a Siberian...
    對 敵 須 狠 , 斬 草 除 根 , 男 女 老 幼 , 不 留 一 人

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laviathan


    The historical Chakan Timur was Uyghur, that's correct. But Wang Baobao (Brother of Zhao Min) was Chakan's adopted son, and whose biological father was in fact a Han-Chinese. So the family was surely not entirely Uyghur.

    In the Jin Yong Universe, Zhao Min and her family were Mongols.


    *
    Probably there are differences in the three editions of HSDS about Zhao Min's ethnicity. I remember someone here giving a citation from the 2nd (?) edition about Zhao Min being of an Uighur aristocrat family who worked at the Mongolian court.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laviathan
    The historical Lady Fragrance was an Uyghur, but Jin Yong's Princess Fragrance was of Hui ethnicity.
    I recently read this research paper on that and it seems that who she really was (i.e ethnicity, origin) or whether she really existed are still a mystery. The researcher showed that the materials preserved in libraries about the Ching dynasty under Qian Long's rule conflicted each other in many ways (age, ethnicity, origin, was she loved by Qian Long etc.) about this mysterious woman. IIRC there were at least 5 different versions of Princess Fragrance.

    I remember someone here giving a citation from the 2nd (?) edition about Zhao Min being of an Uighur aristocrat family who worked at the Mongolian court.
    That was probably me. Chagan Tuimur and Wang Baobao were two famous historical characters but Zhao Min was purely fictional. Chagan had a daughter but of course she was nothing like Zhao Min.

    To Laviathan: the name Dugu Qiubai must be a nickname, there can't be such a coincidence.

    But his last name? I mean, it would be pretty pathetic to call yourself Dugu just because you want to emphasize you being lonely, right?
    I disagree. It really helps to emphasize "Qiubai". A man seeking a loss and feeling lonely because nobody's good enough to make him defend himself once - SUPAMEGAGIGATERAZETA-Cool.
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

    "I disapprove of what I say, but I will defend to the death my right to say it."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laviathan
    First name: OK, might be his own idea...

    But his last name? I mean, it would be pretty pathetic to call yourself Dugu just because you want to emphasize you being lonely, right?

    Anyhoo, Jin Yong just named him Dugu Qiubai because it sounds cool. But Dennis Chen asked about ethnicity, so I tried to give a logical explanation. I'm sure he's not a Siberian...

    i agree.

    the Dugu surname really does exists in the real world. it can't be a coincidence that jin yong decided to use this to name his character.

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