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  1. #81
    Senior Member Vicious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moinllieon
    They play the Princeton offense. It's kinda gimmicky, but definitely works in a one-and-done tournament.
    i never understood that, they say it's the princeton offense but it doesn't look anything like the princeton offense. it's like the triangle offense with four guys.
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  2. #82
    Senior Member Brian0032's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XxGetLow4ShoXx
    omg.. i thot UCON would win.. i was like wtf..
    I think that's the 2nd biggest upset in tournament (next to Wake being beat by West Virginia). The most potential upset in the sweet 16, in my opinion, has to be Louisville over Washington or the Utes over Kentucky.

  3. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vicious
    i never understood that, they say it's the princeton offense but it doesn't look anything like the princeton offense. it's like the triangle offense with four guys.
    That's because they are much more talented than the Princeton players and allow the players to spot up once in a while as well as letting Hodge just take over sometimes. But in general, spreading the floor, slowing down the game, and look for backdoor cuts constitutes the Princeton offense.
    春花秋月几时了,
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  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian0032
    I think that's the 2nd biggest upset in tournament (next to Wake being beat by West Virginia). The most potential upset in the sweet 16, in my opinion, has to be Louisville over Washington or the Utes over Kentucky.
    What a game Wake and WV was wasn't it? Not only was it a tight game, the level of play was great as well.
    春花秋月几时了,
    往事知多少?
    小楼昨夜又东风,
    故国不堪回首明月中.
    雕栏玉砌应犹在,
    只是朱颜改.
    问君能有几多愁,
    恰似一江春水向东流.
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  5. #85
    Senior Member James Ko's Avatar
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    The Utes and Wildcats should be an awsome game... they face off so many times. usually Wildcats comes out in the end... I hope this time Utes go all the way.
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  6. #86
    Senior Member Brian0032's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moinllieon
    What a game Wake and WV was wasn't it? Not only was it a tight game, the level of play was great as well.
    In my opinion, probably one of the best games I've ever seen in the NCAA tournament. If you live in NC the atmosphere around college basketball games is crazy. Doesn't matter if you're at a bar or watching it with a bunch of friends. I'm glad NC has some of the top teams in the country though like Duke, UNC, Wake, NC State (some years they're great), and Charlotte (now starting to shine). Without college basketball we'd have nothing. Panthers sucked last year and Bobcats will be horrible for the next 5 years.

    I really do hope that West Viriginia or NC State makes it to the elite eight though. I hate NC State, but I think with the way that both of these teams are playing thye deserve it. I mean who else had Wake Forest going to the Final Four on their bracket? I did...

    These are my elite 8 match up predictions:
    • Illinois vs Arizona
      Louisville vs Texas Tech
      UNC vs NC State
      Duke vs Kentucky

  7. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian0032
    These are my elite 8 match up predictions:
    • Illinois vs Arizona
      Louisville vs Texas Tech
      UNC vs NC State
      Duke vs Kentucky
    Picking NC State over Wisconsin? *tsk tsk*
    春花秋月几时了,
    往事知多少?
    小楼昨夜又东风,
    故国不堪回首明月中.
    雕栏玉砌应犹在,
    只是朱颜改.
    问君能有几多愁,
    恰似一江春水向东流.
    --南唐后主,李煜.

  8. #88
    Senior Member Brian0032's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moinllieon
    Picking NC State over Wisconsin? *tsk tsk*
    It'll happen....

  9. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian0032
    It'll happen....
    Because the 6th best team in the ACC is better than the 3rd best team in the Big 10? Even though the Big 10 and the ACC both have 3 teams in the Sweet 16?
    春花秋月几时了,
    往事知多少?
    小楼昨夜又东风,
    故国不堪回首明月中.
    雕栏玉砌应犹在,
    只是朱颜改.
    问君能有几多愁,
    恰似一江春水向东流.
    --南唐后主,李煜.

  10. #90
    Senior Member SKYLINE GT-R 32's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian0032
    These are my elite 8 match up predictions:
    • Illinois vs Arizona
      Louisville vs Texas Tech
      UNC vs NC State
      Duke vs Kentucky
    I like your prediction on the elite 8.

  11. #91
    Senior Member Vicious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moinllieon
    Because the 6th best team in the ACC is better than the 3rd best team in the Big 10? Even though the Big 10 and the ACC both have 3 teams in the Sweet 16?
    Why not NCSt? they're on quite a row dont you agree? Besides when has a team's performance in the tournment EVER been determined by how the rest of the teams in their conference do?
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  12. #92
    Senior Member Vicious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian0032
    These are my elite 8 match up predictions:
    • Illinois vs Arizona
      Louisville vs Texas Tech
      UNC vs NC State
      Duke vs Kentucky
    well i'm hoping for another Duke vs UK classic, they've got a balanced teams to do it too. Either that or i want to see a good Illnois vs UNC game. Damn, Kansas disappointed me.
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  13. #93
    Senior Member Brian0032's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vicious
    well i'm hoping for another Duke vs UK classic, they've got a balanced teams to do it too. Either that or i want to see a good Illnois vs UNC game. Damn, Kansas disappointed me.
    I had one prediction wrong last night and that was the texas tech pick. Can't wait to see heels dominate (again) tonight.

  14. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vicious
    Why not NCSt? they're on quite a row dont you agree? Besides when has a team's performance in the tournment EVER been determined by how the rest of the teams in their conference do?
    Why not NCState? Wisconsin 65 - NCState 56, Michigan State 78 - Duke 68. That is why. Any question?

    As to what a team's performance have to do with their conference. Well, care to explain how 3 Big Ten teams made it to the Elite 8? How 2 ACC teams took it on the chin within 5 minutes of each other? How NO Big 12 team made it to the Elite 8 and only one into the Sweet 16 despite the fact that it was ranked the strongest conference in the RPI? Care to explain how last year all Pac10 teams were knocked out before the Sweet 16? How usually more than one ACC team makes it to the Final Four?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian0032
    It'll happen....
    Yeah, it certainly did happen. Brian, I'm not too confident on your Elite 8 predictions, since you've missed half of your Sweet 16 predictions already.
    Last edited by Moinllieon; 03-25-05 at 11:53 PM.
    春花秋月几时了,
    往事知多少?
    小楼昨夜又东风,
    故国不堪回首明月中.
    雕栏玉砌应犹在,
    只是朱颜改.
    问君能有几多愁,
    恰似一江春水向东流.
    --南唐后主,李煜.

  15. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian0032
    I had one prediction wrong last night and that was the texas tech pick. Can't wait to see heels dominate (again) tonight.
    How did that domination working out for ya? Only took a rather iffy traveling call to get them a 1 point win. Now, out of the last 8, UNC's looked the shakiest.
    Last edited by Moinllieon; 03-26-05 at 01:32 AM.
    春花秋月几时了,
    往事知多少?
    小楼昨夜又东风,
    故国不堪回首明月中.
    雕栏玉砌应犹在,
    只是朱颜改.
    问君能有几多愁,
    恰似一江春水向东流.
    --南唐后主,李煜.

  16. #96
    Senior Member Vicious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moinllieon
    Why not NCState? Wisconsin 65 - NCState 56, Michigan State 78 - Duke 68. That is why. Any question?

    As to what a team's performance have to do with their conference. Well, care to explain how 3 Big Ten teams made it to the Elite 8? How 2 ACC teams took it on the chin within 5 minutes of each other? How NO Big 12 team made it to the Elite 8 and only one into the Sweet 16 despite the fact that it was ranked the strongest conference in the RPI? Care to explain how last year all Pac10 teams were knocked out before the Sweet 16? How usually more than one ACC team makes it to the Final Four?

    Yeah, it certainly did happen. Brian, I'm not too confident on your Elite 8 predictions, since you've missed half of your Sweet 16 predictions already.
    Why not NC State? I already said i thought NC St had an advantage because they've had a good run going. What is your reason? Two game scores after they were played? My question is were you certain only after they played? because you were certainly very quiet before they played.

    1. 3 Big Ten teams in the Elite Eight b/c: MichSt is ending its season well with a group of senior filled team. Wisconsin hasn't had to play a team higher than a 10 seed. And Illnois is just too good, but not good enough to make MSU and Wisc win.

    2. 2 ACC teams lost tonite because: Duke was upset in a close game to the forementioned Mich St. NCSt lost to a higher seed, maybe they also wanted Duke to lose too, i'm not sure.

    3. Big 12 was ranked the highest conference and had the most teams in the tournment but it failed to get even one #1 seed. Most people do not have them as the top conference and the teams went .500 in the tournment as expected.

    4. I dont care to explain how no Pac10 teams did last year, maybe you care to explain how Arizona is in the Elite Eight even though no other Pac10 teams did, did they not get the memo?

    5. From your meticulous game scoring, you probably already know that there can't be more than one ACC team in this year's Final Four. Maybe this is another example of how a team doesn't perform according to how their conference does, i'm not sure yet.

    Now that i've answered your questions, maybe you can be so polite as to answer the question i posted first? When has a team's performance in the tournment EVER been determined by how the rest of the teams in their conference do?

    And since you like to critic other people's predictions, maybe you can give your predictions too, especially since there's a Big Ten vs ACC team lined up. Illnois and MichSt are doing so well, Wisc must be able to beat UNC. Care to go with your predication before the game ends?
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  17. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vicious
    Why not NC State? I already said i thought NC St had an advantage because they've had a good run going. What is your reason? Two game scores after they were played? My question is were you certain only after they played? because you were certainly very quiet before they played.
    Well, since I predicted UW would win and gave out a couple of reasons as to why they would win before the game, I didn't feel like repeating my points, or driving home the point that I'm right until.... I was proven right. I wasn't certain UW would win as only a fool would pretend to be certain of anything, especially in the tourney. But I certainly hope you weren't certain NCState would either, at least, not as certain as Brian seemed to be.

    I didn't feel like having to point out the obvious to counter your argument. That since NCState and UW are playing each other and neither won their conference tourneys, that means NCState's "good run" (2 games in a row) was about as good as Wisconsin's good of a run (2 games in row). Some "advantage".

    Let's see, what other reasons do I need?

    Oh yeah:

    1) Wisconsin had a better record and a better RPI.
    2) Bo Ryan of Wisconsin has never lost to a lower seed.
    3) Didn't I already mention something about UW being the 3rd best team in the Big 10 and NCState being the 6th best team in the ACC? Or did you forget about the statement you were originally replying to?
    4) The ACC isn't as strong as people thought, and the Big Ten isn't as weak either.
    5) Hodge is the best player on the floor, but overall, UW has more talent.
    6) Wisconsin made it to the Big Ten Tournament Championship game. NCState didn't make it to the ACC, so UW actually had a "better" run. (Actually, UW has had a "better" run than UNC, but you aren't going to find me saying UW will beat UNC. Nor do I think you'll say "why not UW?" because of their "good run.")

    The reasons why NCState "could win"

    1) Hodge is the best player between the 2 teams.
    2) The ACC is a better overall conference than the Big Ten (and I still believe that).
    3) The Princeton offense is hard to get used to.
    4) Upsets happen in the tourney.
    5) That NCState is better than their record suggests (which I don't believe but you can still argue it).
    6) That NCState matchs up well against Wisconsin (which I don't believe but you can still argue it).

    But since you didn't bring any of that up, I didn't feel obligated to justify my pick with more reasons than I originally gave. Though.... since I predicted and gave out more reasons than anybody else around for why UW should win I certainly did more than Brian did to justify his pick. I mean, yeah I was quiet, I made a prediction, there's quietness for ya.

    1. 3 Big Ten teams in the Elite Eight b/c: MichSt is ending its season well with a group of senior filled team. Wisconsin hasn't had to play a team higher than a 10 seed. And Illnois is just too good, but not good enough to make MSU and Wisc win.
    2 things.

    1) UW hasn't played a team higher than a 10 seed, true. But "why not NCState?" I hope you were not first arguing that NCState should have beat UW because of their "advantageous" good run and then turn around and not give any credit to UW for beating them. If you are just going to dismiss NCState as "just a 10 seed", then why did you ask me "why not NCState"?

    2) I never claimed that Illinois was the reason why I thought UW will win. I suggested that UW, the 3rd best team in the Big Ten was better than the 6th best team in the ACC. And considering what turned out to be the relative strength of the two conferences, that should be a pretty safe claim.

    2. 2 ACC teams lost tonite because: Duke was upset in a close game to the forementioned Mich St. NCSt lost to a higher seed, maybe they also wanted Duke to lose too, i'm not sure.

    3. Big 12 was ranked the highest conference and had the most teams in the tournment but it failed to get even one #1 seed. Most people do not have them as the top conference and the teams went .500 in the tournment as expected.
    And ACC had two #1 seeds, and I see most of them have made it through the Elite 8. Louisville is a #4 seed, and hey, they've made it this far. Seeds are a big flaky, you know that, I know that. Just pointing out the fact that Big 12 is supposedly a power conference, yet they went right down the tubes. Kansas went down to Bucknell? Texas went down to Nevada, Oklahoma went down to Utah? Hey, when your conference regular season champion loses to Bucknell in the first round, that's not saying much about the rest of the teams in your conference that didn't win the conference regular season does it?

    Also, if you "expected" the Big 12 to go around .500 in the tournament. Then you are basically making some statements about how well you expect certain Big 12 teams to do in the tournament right?

    4. I dont care to explain how no Pac10 teams did last year, maybe you care to explain how Arizona is in the Elite Eight even though no other Pac10 teams did, did they not get the memo?
    Yes, because when I say there is a relation I meant there was an "absolute" relationship. I mean, teams should just compare their conference records and decide the winner like that. Why even play the game?

    Of course, you could argue the weakness of the Big 12 trumped the weakness of the Pac 10. But that would actually fit the general trend that I'm suggesting here, so I understand it if you don't want to use that argument. Besides. the Pac 10 isn't nearly as down this year as they were last year. Two teams in the Sweet 16 ain't too shabby.

    So maybe they got the memo after all.

    5. From your meticulous game scoring, you probably already know that there can't be more than one ACC team in this year's Final Four. Maybe this is another example of how a team doesn't perform according to how their conference does, i'm not sure yet.
    I said "usually" didn't I? Did the meaning of that word change recently? But anyways, since so far the ACC, as a whole, has done well (but not great). It fits. I think collectively, they have the 2nd best record in the tourney after the Big 10 (and the order could very well switch by the time we get to the Final 4), it fits.

    Now that i've answered your questions, maybe you can be so polite as to answer the question i posted first? When has a team's performance in the tournment EVER been determined by how the rest of the teams in their conference do?
    Heh, you completely missed the point. If you play against quality opponents, you get tougher, you become more prepared for the grind of the tourney. The quality shows in the tourney (usually, and I stress the word "usually"). So the more teams within your conference advances through the tournament, the better overall quality are within your conference, and the more prepared you are for the tournament run. That's why there are things such as "better conferences". That's why people usually feel the ACC is the best conference, because teams from that conference frequently do better than all others in the tourney. That's why the ACC gets 2 #1 seeds and Big 12 and the Big East gets none even though both of them put more teams into the tournament than the ACC. That's why, last year, NOBODY thought Stanford's outstanding Pac-10 record was worth crap because they were NOT prepared for tough opponents in the tourney. I never said it was the only freaking determining factor, but you can't convince me that a team that wracked up 30 wins in a bad conference is as well prepared as teams that grinded out 20 wins in the ACC. And hell, if there are 3 teams in the Big 10 that's good enough to get into the Sweet 16, then I'd assume that those teams have played against some quality oppositions within their conference and that finishing 3rd in the Big Ten is a pretty good thing.

    And since you like to critic other people's predictions, maybe you can give your predictions too, especially since there's a Big Ten vs ACC team lined up. Illnois and MichSt are doing so well, Wisc must be able to beat UNC. Care to go with your predication before the game ends?
    Actually, I only criticized one particular pick (to go with taking shots at UNC to mess with Brian since I'm not a fan of UNC). So I made one pick, the opposite of Brian's pick for the UW-NCState game, which as it turns out, I was RIGHT. My prediction came true. What have you done? You haven't made predictions (unless you count "why not NCState?", then in that case you would have been wrong).
    Last edited by Moinllieon; 03-26-05 at 08:28 PM.
    春花秋月几时了,
    往事知多少?
    小楼昨夜又东风,
    故国不堪回首明月中.
    雕栏玉砌应犹在,
    只是朱颜改.
    问君能有几多愁,
    恰似一江春水向东流.
    --南唐后主,李煜.

  18. #98
    Senior Member James Ko's Avatar
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    Utes loses so they just got man handle by the Wildcats again... if this is suppose to be the year they break out of that hole now they dig themselves to 0-6.

    Too bad Bogut is jumping to the NBA... I would have thought if they kept him another year the Utes would have run when March comes around next year.
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  19. #99
    Senior Member Brian0032's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moinllieon
    How did that domination working out for ya? Only took a rather iffy traveling call to get them a 1 point win. Now, out of the last 8, UNC's looked the shakiest.
    Dude I almost had a heartattack watching the last minutes. What the hell's going on with their offense? Oh well, hope they can play better next game. It looked like they weren't playing with any passion or anything in that game. Villanova did play good dfense though, so I have to give them credit for that.

  20. #100
    Senior Member Vicious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moinllieon
    I didn't feel like having to point out the obvious to counter your argument. That since NCState and UW are playing each other and neither won their conference tourneys, that means NCState's "good run" (2 games in a row) was about as good as Wisconsin's good of a run (2 games in row). Some "advantage".

    2 things.

    1) UW hasn't played a team higher than a 10 seed, true. But "why not NCState?" I hope you were not first arguing that NCState should have beat UW because of their "advantageous" good run and then turn around and not give any credit to UW for beating them. If you are just going to dismiss NCState as "just a 10 seed", then why did you ask me "why not NCState"?

    2) I never claimed that Illinois was the reason why I thought UW will win. I suggested that UW, the 3rd best team in the Big Ten was better than the 6th best team in the ACC. And considering what turned out to be the relative strength of the two conferences, that should be a pretty safe claim.

    Actually, I only criticized one particular pick (to go with taking shots at UNC to mess with Brian since I'm not a fan of UNC). So I made one pick, the opposite of Brian's pick for the UW-NCState game, which as it turns out, I was RIGHT. My prediction came true. What have you done? You haven't made predictions (unless you count "why not NCState?", then in that case you would have been wrong).
    First of all, one easy mistake to make about the Big 12: Kansas was not the conference regular season champion nor the conference tourney champion. Oklahoma was the regular season champ and OK St was the conference champion. Easy mistake to make, KU gets so much coverage.

    I didn't make any predications but neither did i criticized other people's predictions or wait until after the game is over to say "that's why" either. You seem to have your definition of a "good run" as the number of wins in a row. But it's obvious that's not what i meant, since we both know UW and NCst didn't win their conferenc tourney. NCSt had a better run because they've just beaten WF a #2 seed, lost to Duke a #1 seed, and beaten UConn a #2 seed. UW hasn't won against a ranked team since January. Basically it's what you said about playing against quality teams.

    Where did you give out a couple of reasons why WU would win before the game?
    Quote Originally Posted by Moinllieon
    Because the 6th best team in the ACC is better than the 3rd best team in the Big 10? Even though the Big 10 and the ACC both have 3 teams in the Sweet 16?
    Those aren't reasons, they're just another ranking that doesn't say anything beyond what they're seeded, suggestions if you will. If anything you're the one who said NCSt's princeton offense should work. Of course i'll give credit to UW for winning but like the las vegas people i can't give them the same that i would if NCst won.

    As for the rest i'm going to stay quiet and wait for the games to be over. I'll be ready with my "i told you so" speech if it turns out my way and continue to be quiet otherwise. Go heels!
    Last edited by Vicious; 03-26-05 at 04:43 PM.
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