Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 40

Thread: Dong Fang Bu Bai vs Xiao Long Nu

  1. #1
    Senior Member Temujin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Wuxialand
    Posts
    2,383

    Default Dong Fang Bu Bai vs Xiao Long Nu

    Dong Fang Bu Bai

    The top most controversial she-male fighter in all Jin Yong novels. Her specialty is off course the needles, amazing speed, and internal power (able to block Ling Hu Chong's DG9J attack with a needle). All of these amazing feats come from the famous sun flower script.

    Xiao Long Nu

    Martial arts wise, perhaps the most prominent female fighter in the entire Trilogy, albeit Huang Rong is said to be more or less at the same level, XLN has the speed, second-to-none lightness of kungfu, jade bee needles skills, L-R techniques which when used effectively could resemble two swordsmen in one body in perfect harmony, and she has the bee calling skills.

    So... is this going to be ...

    a needle vs needle fight ?
    a speed vs speed race ?

    Who will win ? and why ?

  2. #2
    Senior Member JigSta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    972

    Default

    Interesting question.

    I would say DFBB. Only because she did some pretty insane things.
    I wonder if XLN is a match in speed...
    All that's needed to say have been said, why say anything more? The man is drunk, why stay any longer?....
    Quote Originally Posted by Question
    if CarMAN Lee hair is green, then am sure carMAN #$%@ a dog to give birth to you.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Laviathan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    1,480

    Default

    Dragon Girl has better techniques (Quanzhen + Ancient Tomb = flawless). But her internal power was not extremely high.

    Dongfang Bubai has great internal power (like Temujin said, blocking Linghu Chong's sword with just a needle) but his style was not flawless, although he makes up for it with great speed.

    Both were incredibly fast, and there's no way to measure and compare.

    So I really don't know who would win in a battle.

    Must say that in HSDS, Zhang wuji and Shaolin monk Kongxing also fought with inhuman speed. Only experts could see their movements, other members of the Orthodox Schools and Ming Cult only saw two flashes flying around.
    對 敵 須 狠 , 斬 草 除 根 , 男 女 老 幼 , 不 留 一 人

  4. #4
    Senior Member Zhuge Liang's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    864

    Default

    In a needle to needle fight i think XLN is not going to win. DFBB seems much more skilled with them since it is his weapon of choice and he has huge stocks of them since he is sewing day in day out. XLN on the other hand never manages anything special when she used hers. Hers rely on poison whereas DFBB seems to not even need poison but just the accuracy to hit vital points.

    Otherwise i find they exhibited some similarity. DFBB did not show much interest in cultivating kung fu after a while relative to his initial drive. XLN, when teaching Yang Guo did not seem to improve much until he caught up with her and pushed her to practice Yunu Xinjing with him. She was like, oh there was no one to practice with and was rather blasse about it. Perhaps it was a blessing that Granny Sun died since it spared us the possibility of seeing Granny sun topless practicing YNXJ with XLN (if indeed it was possible for 2 females to do so)!!
    Last edited by Zhuge Liang; 02-05-05 at 05:04 PM.
    TristeCoeur on Lady Yang: Someone needs 2 tell her that when u want 2 save people from being killed, u need to hurry the hell up, not play bull#### music & dance around. Her mission failed big time

  5. #5
    Senior Member Temujin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Wuxialand
    Posts
    2,383

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Laviathan
    Dragon Girl has better techniques (Quanzhen + Ancient Tomb = flawless). But her internal power was not extremely high.

    Dongfang Bubai has great internal power (like Temujin said, blocking Linghu Chong's sword with just a needle) but his style was not flawless, although he makes up for it with great speed.

    Both were incredibly fast, and there's no way to measure and compare.

    So I really don't know who would win in a battle.

    Must say that in HSDS, Zhang wuji and Shaolin monk Kongxing also fought with inhuman speed. Only experts could see their movements, other members of the Orthodox Schools and Ming Cult only saw two flashes flying around.
    Interesting deduction Lav !

    I honestly think they're both evenly matched at first, maybe the fist 300-400 stances, but XLN lacks the intellegence to explore the flaws that DFBB might have. The fight will be a splendid show of lightness of kungfu, quickness, speed, agility and precisions. The fight will happen at an amazing speed.

    DFBB might have an incredible amount of internal power, but XLN can certainly even that out with her superb techniques including mixing and combining several techniques of swordplays. Don't forget that eventhough DFBB can utilize her needles with amazing power and precision, XLN also has the cloth (ribbon) with the metal balls as her favorite weapon, and this weapon is very unique because it acts as tool to hit pressure points from a distance.

    This would be an advantage for XLN for a while, because she can utilize this techniques from a distance, while DFBB although very fast and has tremendous internal power can't really attack from too far way, XLN can use her ribbon with balls to her advantage, not too mention her bees can distract DFBB.

    The only thing I'm not too sure is, due her lack of intellegence, how effective can XLN set up a plan to use the many martial arts skills that she has to finally overcome DFBB.

    It will be quite a battle. If XLN can use her brain, for once , then I believe she has a chance, otherwise forget about it.
    Last edited by Temujin; 02-05-05 at 07:38 PM.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Han Solo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    5,555

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Temujin
    The only thing I'm not too sure is, due her lack of intellegence, how effective can XLN set up a plan to use the many martial arts skills that she has to finally overcome DFBB.

    It will be quite a battle. If XLN can use her brain, for once , then I believe she has a chance, otherwise forget about it.
    Geesh, XLN is simple minded, not stupid or an idiot.

    In matters of martial arts, she has talent, and intelligent to apply it.

    How else would she be able to learn all her martial arts?

    How else would she triumph in her fights?

  7. #7
    atlantean0208
    Unregistered

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Han Solo
    Geesh, XLN is simple minded, not stupid or an idiot.

    In matters of martial arts, she has talent, and intelligent to apply it.

    How else would she be able to learn all her martial arts?

    How else would she triumph in her fights?
    most people group XLN with GJ and ZBT and directly deduct her as lack of intelligence as oppose to simply having a simple minded because of lack of relationship with the outside world.

    If ZBT is lack of intelligence how is it possible that he can create vacant fist and L/R technique and in the case of GJ his effort in 18 DP refinement using 9 yin and his understanding of big dipper formation

    it is clear that only simple minded person can fully grasp the L/R technique but not a person with a lack of intelligence

  8. #8
    Senior Member Laviathan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    1,480

    Default To Temujin

    Dragon Girl is actually very intelligent, but due to her upbringing she is ignorant of many worldly things. That doesn't mean she is stupid. In her fights with Golden Wheel Monk and the other Mongol warriors, she showed that she has great analytical skills and strategic intelligence in combat. But due to her nature, she will not come up with cunning tricks like Huang Rong or Yang Guo. Heck, when it comes to "normal" intelligence (like, understanding things) she seemed smarter than the young Guo Jing.

    So that's very different than, for example, Xuzhu. I consider Xuzhu to be extremely dumb and untalented martial arts-wise. I mean, he grew up in the Shaolin Temple and trained martial arts for 20 years, yet he was even lousier than a common Xingshu School member. He also lacked perseverance (always daydreaming). If it wasn't for Wuyazi, Xuzhu would never have become a martial arts master. Everyone with hundreds of years of internal power inside their body can become great. That has nothing to do with talent.

    Anyway, Dragon Girl is not dumb at all, but Dongfang Bubai is of course much smarter.
    對 敵 須 狠 , 斬 草 除 根 , 男 女 老 幼 , 不 留 一 人

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    184

    Default

    ive always felt that dongfang bubai is terribly underrated

    he held off xwt, rwx, and lhc wif needles, something i feel even the top martial artists might have problems with

    i can imagine lhc alone giving xln a good fight, and that rwx+lhc would overwhelm her.

  10. #10
    Senior Member qiaofeng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Gai Bang
    Posts
    472

    Default

    zhou botong isnt dumb, hes just a nutcase. xiaolongnu shld be able to at least draw or maybe even defeat dongfang by a few moves. her yunu shuxin jian is very powerful. she held off the 4 mongol fighters and jinlun fawang singlehandlely. her superior qinggong and godly speed makes it even deadlier. i dont think shes gonna lose to dongfang bubai interms of qinggong n speed. her biggest flaw is her lack of inner energy. but her superior technique allowed he to defend herself against the mongol fighter n fawang, all of which had higher inner energy.

  11. #11
    Senior Member c13:4567's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    629

    Default

    hmm, i never thought of Xu Zhu as a dumb guy, martial arts wise or non-martial arts wise. maybe its because he comes across, to me, as a really down to earth, naive, easy going, excessively honest and kind hearted guy with no worldly desires (initially) except practice buddhism. but he is not dumb.


    and i thought his memory uptake skill is quite good but this of course, does not equate intelligence. moreover, i imagine learning all those 'xiao yao pai' wu gong from tian shan tong lao would need a certain level of intelligence, although having greaT internal energy probably helps too.

    i think i need to reread his story again since its been such a long time.
    Last edited by c13:4567; 02-06-05 at 04:00 PM.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Laviathan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    1,480

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by c13:4567
    hmm, i never thought of Xu Zhu as a dumb guy, martial arts wise or non-martial arts wise. maybe its because he comes across, to me, as a really down to earth, naive, easy going, excessively honest and kind hearted guy with no worldly desires (initially) except practice buddhism. but he is not dumb.
    Down to earth? Nope. Always day-dreaming. No wordly desires? He did fantasize about girls, but due to lack of knowledge on the subject, his fantasies were a bit odd. Yes, he is a very na鴳e and kind-hearted person, but someone who has lived and trained in Shaolin for his entire life, and having learned Arhat Fist and part of Weito Palm... And not being able to use it. That's really saddening.

    Quote Originally Posted by c13:4567
    and i thought his memory uptake skill is quite good but this of course, does not equate intelligence. moreover, i imagine learning all those 'xiao yao pai' wu gong from tian shan tong lao would need a certain level of intelligence, although having greaT internal energy probably helps too.
    A certain level of intelligence? Well, one cannot be a complete retard of course. But let's face it, with 70 years of Beiming energy inside his body, everyone can learn great martial arts. He needed only to guide the energy through the meridians according to the technique. And he still needed a lot of time and strict guidance from Tonglao to do so. Duan Yu also absorbed energy, and he could learn Liumai Shenjian just by watching the charts for a short period of time. And uan Yu was neevr trained in the martial arts, while Xuzhu was.

    So, I don't understand why people say that Xuzhu has talent, while at the same time they consider You Tanzhi to be a morone. I mean, at least You Tanzhi gained internal power by practicing himself (although he had help from the cocoon worm).
    對 敵 須 狠 , 斬 草 除 根 , 男 女 老 幼 , 不 留 一 人

  13. #13
    Senior Member Zhuge Liang's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    864

    Default

    I am reading the ROCH manga, translated (poorly by Comicsone) and LMC remarks that the bee needles are one of the 2 ancient tomb concealed weapons. What is the other?
    TristeCoeur on Lady Yang: Someone needs 2 tell her that when u want 2 save people from being killed, u need to hurry the hell up, not play bull#### music & dance around. Her mission failed big time

  14. #14
    Senior Member c13:4567's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    629

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Laviathan
    Down to earth? Nope. Always day-dreaming. No wordly desires? He did fantasize about girls, but due to lack of knowledge on the subject, his fantasies were a bit odd.
    i see. i humbly stand corrected. upon rereading the part when tong lao tempted him with meng gu, jin yong did say he fantasized quite a bit abt girls, even before he met meng gu.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laviathan
    Yes, he is a very na鴳e and kind-hearted person, but someone who has lived and trained in Shaolin for his entire life, and having learned Arhat Fist and part of Weito Palm... And not being able to use it. That's really saddening.
    maybe he just isn't into wu gong as much as he is into buddhism. or maybe...nah, forget it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Laviathan
    So, I don't understand why people say that Xuzhu has talent, while at the same time they consider You Tanzhi to be a morone. I mean, at least You Tanzhi gained internal power by practicing himself (although he had help from the cocoon worm).
    well, i never regarded xuzhu to be a genius like yang guo but neither have i thought of him as a dumb guy or a retard. i imagine him to be a guy of at least average intelligence or slightly better than average, with tremendous luck.

    but then again, you are the resident hardcore expert of jin yong wuxia novels, not me...


    btw, sorry if this is too off topic.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Laviathan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    1,480

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by c13:4567
    well, i never regarded xuzhu to be a genius like yang guo but neither have i thought of him as a dumb guy or a retard. i imagine him to be a guy of at least average intelligence or slightly better than average, with tremendous luck..
    He does have a certain talent for the healing arts.When Tonglao told him about her stagnated growth when she was a child, Xuzhu immediately could apply his Shaolin medicinal knowledge to fgure out what meridian was harmed. And he could use Xiaoyao knowledge to cure Ah Zhi and others. But in all other areas except for medicine, he's below average.

    Quote Originally Posted by c13:4567
    but then again, you are the resident hardcore expert of jin yong wuxia novels, not me... .
    Nah, don't say that. I always make mistakes, and I'm being corrected all the time. I'm very lazy, you know, so I often glimpse through the novels without carefully reading them.

    Quote Originally Posted by c13:4567
    btw, sorry if this is too off topic.
    No problem. I don't think Temujin would mind.
    對 敵 須 狠 , 斬 草 除 根 , 男 女 老 幼 , 不 留 一 人

  16. #16
    Senior Member Han Solo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    5,555

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Laviathan
    Down to earth? Nope. Always day-dreaming. No wordly desires? He did fantasize about girls, but due to lack of knowledge on the subject, his fantasies were a bit odd. Yes, he is a very na鴳e and kind-hearted person, but someone who has lived and trained in Shaolin for his entire life, and having learned Arhat Fist and part of Weito Palm... And not being able to use it. That's really saddening.


    A certain level of intelligence? Well, one cannot be a complete retard of course. But let's face it, with 70 years of Beiming energy inside his body, everyone can learn great martial arts. He needed only to guide the energy through the meridians according to the technique. And he still needed a lot of time and strict guidance from Tonglao to do so. Duan Yu also absorbed energy, and he could learn Liumai Shenjian just by watching the charts for a short period of time. And uan Yu was neevr trained in the martial arts, while Xuzhu was.

    So, I don't understand why people say that Xuzhu has talent, while at the same time they consider You Tanzhi to be a morone. I mean, at least You Tanzhi gained internal power by practicing himself (although he had help from the cocoon worm).

    Would this just because the difference between the martial arts of Shaolin and Xiao Yao i.e. XZ is more suited to learn Xiao Yao's martial arts like a duck taking to water?

  17. #17
    Senior Member qiaofeng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Gai Bang
    Posts
    472

    Default

    its probably due mostly to the teaching methods. the monks are probably lousy teachers. n i think the monks train in a group. someone with xu zhu's level of intelligence needed more personal coaching. tiansan tonglao give him lots of personal coaching and was practically flogging him to learn tiansan 6 yang zhang and tiansan ze mei shou. not to mention at that point hes got 70 yrs of beiming zhenqi, which helps alot

  18. #18
    Senior Member Laviathan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    1,480

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Han Solo
    Would this just because the difference between the martial arts of Shaolin and Xiao Yao i.e. XZ is more suited to learn Xiao Yao's martial arts like a duck taking to water?
    Firstly, Shaolin is the oldest martial arts school in Jin Yong's world, and their teachings are so broad and profound that it suits everyone (although it is better suited for males).

    Secondly, what Xuzhu learned were basics, and in martial arts basics do not differ much between schools. A punch is a punch, a kick is a kick, a horse stance is a horse stance. What Xuzhu learned was Arhat Fist, which is a kind of Long Fist form. Long Fist forms are basic throughout the martial arts world. Xiao Feng learned Taizu Long Fist, Zhang Wuji learned Wudang Long Fist, Yuan Chengzhi learned Ten Brocades of Long Fist... Both Wuji and Chengzhi learned Long Fist at an age of 10, and after a short period of time they could use it for basic self-defense. Also, Xuzhu also practiced Shaolin neigong, but his internal power is almost zero. Compared to Guo Jing who was also considered to be a slow learned: young Guo Jing was lousy when it comes to learning techniques, but he was great in cultivating internal power, within 2 years he already reached an advanced level.

    Furthermore, Shaolin is a more no-nonsense style with clear techniques and methods. Xiaoyao is much more complex and incomprehensible in nature. Both schools are profound and superb, but while Shaolin is considered to be suited towards all different types of people, Xiaoyao only chooses those with superb intellect. It seems that, under normal circumstances, Shaolin is actually a better choice for Xuzhu than Xiaoyao. Of course, he did receive Wuyazi's Xiaoyao power, so it is only natural that he could adapt to Xiaoyao martial arts fairly easily. But that has nothing to with Xuzhu's nature, personality or intelligence, IMO, just the nature of his Beiming energy.

    So, to say that Xuzhu is more suited to learn Xiaoyao's martial arts is turning the logic upside down. An analogy: let's say I am in the restaurant business, I am a lousy entrepeneur and I screw up the whole thing. Then suddenly I inherit a fortune and shares of a 5 star hotel. Since then, I am a wealthy, successful man. Would you say that my success was due to me being more suited for the hotel business than the restaurant business? You would probably say that I was lucky. If I would have pursued a career in the hotel business, without the inheritance, I might have screwed up even worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by qiaofeng
    its probably due mostly to the teaching methods. the monks are probably lousy teachers. n i think the monks train in a group. someone with xu zhu's level of intelligence needed more personal coaching. tiansan tonglao give him lots of personal coaching and was practically flogging him to learn tiansan 6 yang zhang and tiansan ze mei shou. not to mention at that point hes got 70 yrs of beiming zhenqi, which helps alot
    Not all the monks were lousy teachers, not possible in a school like Shaolin. Xuzhu did receive private lessons from Xuandu (the highest ranking monk at Shaolin, being the older kungfu brother of the abbot) for more than a half year.

    So, IMO, don't blame the style. Just blame the person.
    對 敵 須 狠 , 斬 草 除 根 , 男 女 老 幼 , 不 留 一 人

  19. #19
    Senior Member CC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    4,970

    Default

    Look, I am not totally convinced myself but ...

    Its not really known or explicitly stated that inner power alone without some aptitute is enough to master the advanced XY techniques. I can't think of any other JY character to compare since YTZ was not exposed to other advanced techniques after YJJ.

    He did show intelligence with his healing skills. Heck, eyeball swapping seems pretty advanced even by 2005 standards. And thats got nothing to do with the bajillion points of inner force he had.

    Back on topic :

    I have a hard time visualising DFBB losing to any fighter short of Xiao Feng's level.
    In my mind, even Xiao Feng will win by 'half-a-stroke'. RWX and LHC are fearsome fighters and XWT is at least elite class.
    Last edited by CC; 02-07-05 at 07:06 AM.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Laviathan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    1,480

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CC
    Its not really known or explicitly stated that inner power alone without some aptitute is enough to master the advanced XY techniques. I can't think of any other JY character to compare since YTZ was not exposed to other advanced techniques after YJJ.
    Yes, but throughout the entire DGSD novel, the message was: "With great amount of inner power, learning martial arts is very easy". And yes, some aptitude is neccessary, one cannot be completely braindead. But even morones like Hou Tonghai (LOCH) would become demigods after an energy transfer from Wuyazi.

    Quote Originally Posted by CC
    He did show intelligence with his healing skills. Heck, eyeball swapping seems pretty advanced even by 2005 standards. And thats got nothing to do with the bajillion points of inner force he had.
    Uhuh, he does have a talent for the healing arts.

    Quote Originally Posted by CC
    I have a hard time visualising DFBB losing to any fighter short of Xiao Feng's level.
    In my mind, even Xiao Feng will win by 'half-a-stroke'. RWX and LHC are fearsome fighters and XWT is at least elite class.
    Well, Dongfang's speed makes him extremely dangerous, but apart from being fast, Xiao Feng is superior to him any other field of combat. But yeah, it will be a tough fight.
    對 敵 須 狠 , 斬 草 除 根 , 男 女 老 幼 , 不 留 一 人

Similar Threads

  1. Bai Ma Xiao Xi Feng
    By junzi in forum Wuxia Translations
    Replies: 194
    Last Post: 04-28-16, 08:45 AM
  2. Zheng Xiao Dong
    By Serynsatina in forum Actors
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 08-31-07, 01:22 PM
  3. Bai Ma Xiao Xi Feng
    By beautysword in forum Wuxia Translations
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 10-16-05, 04:41 AM
  4. Murong Fu Vs. Dong Fang Bu Bai
    By Divine Condor in forum Wuxia Fiction
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 10-11-04, 10:40 AM
  5. Bai Xiao Shengs Book of Weapons
    By Stance in forum Wuxia Fiction
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 03-14-04, 09:16 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •