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Thread: Why did the Siu Yiu Sect have so much trouble obtaining 1YF, HL18P, BDST, and YGG?

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default Why did the Siu Yiu Sect have so much trouble obtaining 1YF, HL18P, BDST, and YGG?

    The Siu Yiu Sect had the most powerful martial arts in the wulin of DEMIGODS & SEMIDEVILS, and since DGSD is generally considered the era wherein the peak levels of the best fighters were the highest, one could say that the Siu Yiu Sect had the most powerful martial arts in the entire Jin Yong Canon. Moreover, the Siu Yiu Sect also had a library of pirated martial arts manuals representing nearly all the known martial arts styles up to the era of the Northern Sung Dynasty...with four notable exceptions: the Dali Deun Royal Family's 1 Yeung Finger Technique (and its more advanced extension, 6 Mak Divine Swords), the Beggar's Union's Hong Lung 18 Palms and Beat Dog Stick Technique, and the Shaolin Temple's Yik Gun Ging. Why did the Siu Yiu Sect have so much trouble obtaining these martial arts techniques? The Deun Royal Family, the Beggar's Union Chiefs, and the Shaolin monks were formidable opponents, but none of them were more powerful than the Siu Yiu Sect's best fighters. If the Siu Yiu Sect wanted these martial arts, it doesn't seem likely that they would be unable to obtain them.

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    Senior Member Laviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    Why did the Siu Yiu Sect have so much trouble obtaining these martial arts techniques? The Deun Royal Family, the Beggar's Union Chiefs, and the Shaolin monks were formidable opponents, but none of them were more powerful than the Siu Yiu Sect's best fighters. If the Siu Yiu Sect wanted these martial arts, it doesn't seem likely that they would be unable to obtain them.
    Wuyazi and Li Qiushui were still young at the time, of course they already were superior martial arts sages, but it is not impossible that there were other masters who could rival them. In other words, during the days of DGSD no one from the Duan Family, Shaolin or Beggar Brotherhood was more powerful than the best Xiaoyao fighters, but 70 years ago things might have been somewhat different.

    In Chapter 35, Tianshan Tonglao told Xuzhu that she and the Shaolin grandmaster Lingmen (teacher of abbot Xuanci) were friends. She admits that she was the equal of Lingmen when it comes to wulin-status, and it is possible that they were equals too in the field of martial arts skills. This is not strange at all, considering that Tonglao was quite young and Lingmen was already an old Shaolin monk. Apart from Lingmen, there might be some more experts.

    So, Tonglao, Wuyazi and Li Qiushui might have had some difficulties obtaining the treasures of these clans. Besides, Xiaoyao is a small school, while Shaolin, Beggars and Duans are numerous.
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    Senior Member Zhuge Liang's Avatar
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    Duan Family Arts - Certainly the the 1Y Finger might be obtainable. However, the monks at Tian Long Temple destroyed the manuals when JMZ tried to take them by force. Even on abducting Duan Yu and torturing him, he did not tell him the proper method.

    Shaolins Yik Gun Jing - Even if they overpowered the monks, they may not find it since not many ppl knew where it was.

    Beggar Clans arts - I guess only the beggar chief knows it. Even if they can beat him it is unlikely he would tell - neither XF or his predecessor seemed like they would do so. Perhaps the ones before them might. I'm guessing the elders that know the formulas are specially chosen to not reveal the arts.

    More pragmatically, the pirated library becomes accessible to the Mo Yong family so it might mess up the story if the Mo Yungs & JMZ can access these arts, nullifying certain events and altering skill levels.

    Moreover, they already posessed cosmic arts which were roughly equal to these anyway in general terms. I think they practiced other clans arts as a sidenote for curiosity etc rather than as a substitute for their own arts lest they neglect depth for breadth.
    Last edited by Zhuge Liang; 02-16-05 at 05:04 PM.
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    Senior Member KJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    Moreover, the Siu Yiu Sect also had a library of pirated martial arts manuals representing nearly all the known martial arts styles up to the era of the Northern Sung Dynasty...with two notable exceptions: the Dali Deun Royal Family's 1 Yeung Finger Technique (and its more advanced extension, 6 Mak Divine Swords), the Beggar's Union's Hong Lung 18 Palms and Beat Dog Stick Technique, and the Shaolin Temple's Yik Gun Ging. Why did the Siu Yiu Sect have so much trouble obtaining these martial arts techniques? The Deun Royal Family, the Beggar's Union Chiefs, and the Shaolin monks were formidable opponents, but none of them were more powerful than the Siu Yiu Sect's best fighters. If the Siu Yiu Sect wanted these martial arts, it doesn't seem likely that they would be unable to obtain them.
    Isn't that 4 exceptions? They couldn't get HL 18 Palms because it was not written down in a manual. They probably figured they cannot force the Beggar Clan chief to write down the martial arts for them. With Yi Ying Jing, the monks didn't even think too much of it, since it was in sanskrit and nobody could learn it.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KJ
    Isn't that 4 exceptions?
    Originally, it was two, then I remembered two more.

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    Senior Member kyss of the sword's Avatar
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    the Siu Yiu Sect oldies were among the most powerful in DGSD but you can't really tell how powerful they were since they didn't actually fight with any top exponents, all Tianshan Tonglao ever killed and bullied were second rate fighters from unorthodox clans, xuzhu with Wuyazi's inner power was powerful but he didn't fight with any powerful enemies till he got Li Qiushui and tianshan tonglao's inner power as well. the three of them might not have been above abbot Xuanci individually. remember, he wasn't defeated by Ding Chun Qiu who was wuyazi's best student. he only lost You Tan Zhi who had the icy silk worm poison with yiyinji power and ding chun qiu lost to you tan zhi as well. so if abbot xuanci=ding chun qiu (practise xiao ya pai skills for forty yrs at least) =~ xiao ya pai oldies(individually). that may mean JMZ and the murong(elder) and xiao feng and father may be better then the xiao ya pai oldies. xuzhu only was better then JMZ after getting all the XYP oldies inner power and practising the XYP skills which increased his inner energy more.
    Last edited by kyss of the sword; 02-17-05 at 12:09 AM.
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    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyss of the sword
    the Siu Yiu Sect oldies were among the most powerful in DGSD but you can't really tell how powerful they were since they didn't actually fight with any top exponents, all Tianshan Tonglao ever killed and bullied were second rate fighters from unorthodox clans, xuzhu with Wuyazi's inner power was powerful but he didn't fight with any powerful enemies till he got Li Qiushui and tianshan tonglao's inner power as well. the three of them might not have been above abbot Xuanci individually. remember, he wasn't defeated by Ding Chun Qiu who was wuyazi's best student. he only lost You Tan Zhi who had the icy silk worm poison with yiyinji power and ding chun qiu lost to you tan zhi as well. so if abbot xuanci=ding chun qiu (practise xiao ya pai skills for forty yrs at least) =~ xiao ya pai oldies(individually). that may mean JMZ and the murong(elder) and xiao feng and father may be better then the xiao ya pai oldies. xuzhu only was better then JMZ after getting all the XYP oldies inner power and practising the XYP skills which increased his inner energy more.
    NO.

    With Wuyazi's inner power alone, XZ had enough inner force to counter DCQ's san xiao poison. The shaolin elders dropped like flies.

    And with 30% control over his inner power, he could throw JMZ back with 1 basic punch.

    Wuyazi never taught DCQ his best techniques because he saw DCQ's lousy character. DCQ is not a good guide to Wuyazi's power.

    In fact, I think DCQ screwed himself. If he had been nicer to WYZ and not been so impatient, he would have inherited Bei Ming Sheng Gong amongst other things. With Bei Ming, he can go leech all 2000 of his students and become superman.

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    Senior Member Han Solo's Avatar
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    With the relatively poor strength of the Beggar Clan's chief and Shaolin Abbot approx. 30+ years before the start of DGSD (XYS beating all of them single-handedly), it is hard to imagine that the Xiao Yao trio not capable of achieving similar actions against the immediate predecessor of those 2 sect leader.

    It would be more likely that they didn't obtain the rest when WYZ and LQS began to seclude themselves from the world, and even more likely that their efforts of obtaining the rest of the manuals dissipated when they have their family breakdown.

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    Senior Member kyss of the sword's Avatar
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    have to agree with that, actually, abbot xuanci was a little low on the power to compare with the XYP oldies, just couldn't find anyone else suitable. but, i still think the XYP oldies might not have been at the same level as old murong, JMZ, xiao feng and his dad, except for wuyazi. maybe a bit above at the duan evil and young murong level.
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    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyss of the sword
    . but, i still think the XYP oldies might not have been at the same level as old murong, JMZ, xiao feng and his dad, except for wuyazi. maybe a bit above at the duan evil and young murong level.
    Thats stretching it. LQS practised Xiao Wu Xiang Gong for nearly 80 years or more. JMZ only studied it for 30. And Xiao Yao pai takes in only the most talented students. Look at the power of LQS's soul searching skill. And the power of her palm blasts.

    If you look at Xu Zhu after he took in WYZ's power alone, you can see the staggering amount of energy these elders had.

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    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    After XZ just got WYZ's inner power, when he didn't even know how to use it properly, it was enough to make him immune to DCQ's poison attacks - the kind that killed XCH and Shaolin Xuan-level monks easily and made MRF dodge like hell was chasing after him. It was even to the point that DCQ was too afraid to use poisons on him again, for fear that the poisons might get pushed back to him (which would kill him). I believe that MRB, XYS and XF were still one level below that of the XY elders.

    Back to Han's previous question: they might be a lot better than the Beggar Clan leader and the Shaolin Abbott, but that doesn't mean they could easily obtain the martial arts they wanted, and these two guys always had lots of followers - not easy to kidnap them even.
    Last edited by Candide; 02-18-05 at 01:56 AM.
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    Senior Member Han Solo's Avatar
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    If they put their energy and mind behind it, it is impossible for them not to get the manuals. There's no need to kidnap anyone.

    For Shaolin, it is a simple job of going into the Scripture Keeping Area and simply steal everything. MRB and XYS were able to stay at Shaolin for years before anyone find them out. And i think that a single night raid is much easier to do.
    Also the XYP have far superior hing gung, making it much easier to steal.

    For the Beggar Clan, no matter how stubborn anyone is, i think that they would definitely surrender any secrets once the life and death testament were hit into them.

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    hm..i thot the beggar sect members were willing to stand up and sacrifice themselves when dcq fought youtanzi...

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    It just might be that they might have been friends with the beggar sect and shaolin elders/leaders. So they would not do such things to their friends.

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    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    The beggars were really stubborn and weren't afraid of death. The Life & Death thingy wouldn't do much if they killed themselves. As for Shaolin, maybe they didn't want to try that since they knew about a certain someone being there all the time....
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

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    Senior Member Han Solo's Avatar
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    Which again in a round about way strengthen the relationship between XYP and Sweeper Monk.

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    Wait, they did get hold of all the shaolin 72 arts though.

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    Senior Member Han Solo's Avatar
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    Yeah, they got the 72 supreme skills of shaolin, but missed yjj.
    Also missing HL18Palm, YYZ and 6MSJ. Meaning that they must have Dog Beating Stance, right?

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    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    They do. Remember MRF was practicing that and WYY commented that he was going too fast?
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

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    Senior Member Han Solo's Avatar
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    I thought WYY said that she extrapolated what the Dog Beating stances look like as the copy that she has is incomplete?

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