Some Facts and Factoids

[Han Solo]

1) The Ming monetary and weight system
1 liang or 1 tael = 10 jian
1 jian = 10 fen
1 fen = 10 li. (Li is the smallest denomination)

2) There was an eunuch during the Ming dynasty called Guo Jing. This eunuch is the grand defender of Datong, and was involved in the diplomacy-envoy trips to Central Asia including Samarkand and Heart in 1420. He is also often involved with the Mongolian from his post in Datong. Guo Jing is noted for an episode when he wounded the prode of the Oirat tribe, leading to a raid by them and a subsequent engagement by the Ming army which ended up as a disastrous defeat for the Ming, losing 100,000 soldiers.

3) The ice bed in the Ancient Tomb that YG slept in during ROCH and the ice room in Xi Xia in DGSD may be based on the Shin Hu’s imperial palace where the summer pavilion was air-conditioned with ventilating shafts connected to underground pts where ice was stored.

4) The wet nurse in the Ming dynasty who was depicted in the Legend of the White Hair Maiden, was not the first wet nurse who rose to such prominence. In the Toba-Wei Dynasty (A.D. 424 to 451), there was one emperor who bestowed upon his wet nurse an imperial title equal to the rank of a dowager empress. This wet nurse even teamed up with palace eunuchs to force the heir-apparent’s biological mother to commit suicide lest she outranks her.

5) Even during the reign of Tang Tsai Tung, Shaolin had a big gathering of martial experts. Some 2,500 kung-fu experts dwelt under the palatial roofs of the immense Shaolin monastery not far from Loyang. The awesome Shaolin “Pagoda Forest” nearby, shere some 250 tall, ornate obelisks still stand abve the graves of the martial monks, was started during this period.

6) The binding of women’s feet first came into fashion during the Five Dynasty ear, following the end of Tang and before the start of Sung. Entranced by the sight of a concubine dancing atop a six-foot, lotus-carved golden pedestal, a poet–ruler of Nanking sighed “With every step, a lotus grows”. Soon these golden lotuses became a fashion and then a symbol of feminine chastity.

7) The name “Cathay”, used to describe China in medieval China was based on “Kitai” who in turn is the name of the Khitans.

8) “Man’s highest joy is conquest, defeat your enemies, pursue them, seize their possessions, ride their horses, and rape their wives and daughter.” – Genghis Khan.

9) Genghis Khan was stopped from burning and destroying the whole Tangutan populace by a Khitan scholar who convinced the khan that “although one can conquer by horseback, one cannot rule from horseback.” - ?ancestors of Ye Lu Chi.

10) The conquest of Kaifeng which was under the Jurchens, was completed under the command of Ogotai Khan, long after the death of Genghis Khan. – unlike the story portrayed in LOCH.

Han Solo

[HuangYushi]

Very intriguing information! Thanks for posting it.

1 liang or 1 tael = 10 jian
1 jian = 10 fen
1 fen = 10 li. (Li is the smallest denomination)

Just wondering, do you mean "qian" [钱] instead of "jian"?
Then, "1 liang [两] = 10 qian [钱] = 100 fen [分] = 1000 li [厘]" makes sense.

[Han Solo]

Bump.

Share your factoids please.

Han Solo

[odbayarb2000]

Please provide your source in number 8. It's rather insulting my forefather.

[Han Solo]

http://hnn.us/roundup/archives/11/2008/5/

"The desire to conquer the world — or even just one’s neighbors — is hardly an Islamic invention. Genghis Khan is not a name: It’s a title. It means “universal ruler.” The man history knows as Genghis Khan believed it was his divinely ordained mission to lead the Mongols to global domination.

And he loved his work. “Man’s highest joy is victory: to conquer his enemies,” he said, “to pursue them; to deprive them of their possessions; to make their beloved weep; to ride on their horses; and to embrace their wives and daughters.”..."

This is not the only source for this quote.

This quote can be found in other history books as well.

Han Solo

[pannonian]

The Jin poet-historian Yuan Haowen was born in 1190. A prodigy, he started composing verses from a very young age. In 1206, on his way to an exam, he encountered a goose catcher, who carried two dead geese. Yuan asked him about the geese, and was told their story. The catcher had caught and killed one of the geese, but the other one escaped. Upon seeing that its mate was dead, the other goose didn't fly away, but killed itself by flying into the ground. Yuan composed a verse inspired by this incident, reflecting on the nature of love. This verse is the one that Li Mochou was so fond of in ROCH.

Yuan later became an official in the Jin government. On the fall of the Jin, he retired from government, and wrote on history and poetry. He is one of the major historical sources on the Jin and early Yuan.

[odbayarb2000]

http://hnn.us/roundup/archives/11/2008/5/

"The desire to conquer the world — or even just one’s neighbors — is hardly an Islamic invention. Genghis Khan is not a name: It’s a title. It means “universal ruler.” The man history knows as Genghis Khan believed it was his divinely ordained mission to lead the Mongols to global domination.

And he loved his work. “Man’s highest joy is victory: to conquer his enemies,” he said, “to pursue them; to deprive them of their possessions; to make their beloved weep; to ride on their horses; and to embrace their wives and daughters.”..."

This is not the only source for this quote.

This quote can be found in other history books as well.

Han Solo

I strongly believe this quote created by someone else than Chinggis Khagan.

Chinggis Khagan made illegal to kidnap women in his codified law. Who made such law wouldn't boast something like that.

Also following is his letter to Qui Chu Ji.

------

[Chinghis Khan's letter of invitation to Ch'ang ch'un]

//[p.37] Heaven has abandoned China owing to its haughtiness and extravagant luxury. But I, living in the northern wilderness, have not inordinate passions. I hate luxury and exercise moderation. I have only one coat and one food. I eat the same food and am dressed in the same tatters as my humble herdsmen. I consider the people my //[p.38] children, and take an interest in talented men as if they were my brothers. We always agree in our principles, and we are always united by mutual affection. At military exercises I am always in the front, and in time of battle am never behind. In the space of seven years I have succeeded in accomplishing a great work, and uniting the whole world in one empire. I have not myself dis- tinguished qualities.



But the government of the Kin is inconstant, and therefore Heaven assists me to obtain the throne (of the Kin). The Sung to the south, the Hui ho to the north, the Hia to the east, and the barbarians in the west, all together have acknowledged my supremacy. It seems to me that since the remote time of our shan yü such a vast empire has not been seen. But as my calling is high, the obligations incumbent on me are also heavy; and I fear that in my ruling there may be something wanting. To cross a river we make boats and rudders. Likewise we invite sage men, and choose out assistants for keeping the empire in good order. Since the time I came to the throne I have always taken to heart the ruling of my people; but I could not find worthy men to occupy the places of the three (kung) and the nine (k'ing). With respect to these circumstances I inquired, and heard that thou, master, hast penetrated the truth, and that thou walkest in the path of right. Deeply learned and much experienced, thou hast much explored the laws. Thy sanctity is become manifest. Thou hast conserved the rigorous rules of the ancient sages. Thou art endowed with the eminent talents of celebrated men. For a long time thou hast lived in the caverns of the rocks, and hast retired from //[p.39] the world; but to thee the people who have acquired sanctity repair, like clouds on the path of the immortals, in innumerable multitudes. I knew that after the war thou hadst continued to live in Shan tung, at the same place, and I was always thinking of thee. I know the stories of the returning from the river Wei in the same cart, and of the invitations in the reed hut three times repeated. But what shall I do? We are separated by mountains and plains of great extent, and I cannot meet thee. I can only descend from the throne and stand by the side. I have fasted and washed . I have ordered my adjutant, Liu Chung lu, to prepare an escort and a cart for thee. Do not be afraid of the thousand li. I implore thee to move thy sainted steps. Do not think of the extent of the sandy desert. Commiserate the people in the present situation of affairs, or have pity upon me, and communicate to me the means of preserving life. I shall serve thee myself. I hope that at least thou wilt leave me a trifle of thy wisdom. Say only one word to me and I shall be happy. In this letter I have briefly expressed my thoughts, and hope that thou wilt understand them. I hope also that thou, having penetrated the principles of the great tao, sympathisest with all that is right, and wilt not resist the wishes of the people.



Given on the 1st day of the 5th month (May 15),1219.

http://depts.washington.edu/silkroad...changchun.html

----



I believe who wrote something like this wouldn't boast about violating others' women.


Chinggis Khagan's own wife suffered the fate of women. He loved his wife dearly all of his life. He wouldn't suggest himself to molest other's wife.

[tape]

It seems a bit hard to believe that he only has one coat and "one food". He is incredibly humble in this letter, and it could very well have just been written by someone else to urge the taoist to come visit, with the truths a bit skewed.

Iirc, he did indeed rape and take many wives for his own from quite a few articles I've read. Sources are incredibly biased one way or another I'm sure, but it doesn't make much sense for a brutal conqueror like him to live as humbly as this letter makes him out to be.

[odbayarb2000]

I have counted how many women Chinggis Kagan actually kept from war spoils. It seems he kept 5 more women other than her legitimate wife, Borte. (Maybe 6, fate of Khadan is very vague in history ) Other than that no first hand source tells about his violation of others' women.

History is biased. The countries conquered by Mongols, left the most biased historical accounts. They claim Chinggis Khagan had 100s of wife without first hand source. I can't believe who spent most of his life on horse back, had a time sport hundreds of women.

I am not trying to deny what Mongols did in thirtheen century. Yes, millions of people died. But that's only one side of the history. Chinggis Kagan is nation founder, charismatic leader and true Mongol. He wasn't the ruthless barbarian as others described.

[tape]

No doubt, but there are not many conquerors/rulers/kings/emperors that did not enjoy beautiful women wherever they went, even at the expense of others. Most are civilized and not ruthless or barbaric, but when it comes to women it often is another story.

Since history is biased and accurate accounts are hard to come by, I'm just going by what to me is more probable. (that he will take someone else's woman if he desired it)

Ability, charisma, power, and brilliance are very separate from their personal sex/lust life.

[bliss]

I believe Gengis Khan stole that quote from Conan the Cimmerian

[Guo Xiang]

Since history is biased and accurate accounts are hard to come by, I'm just going by what to me is more probable. (that he will take someone else's woman if he desired it)

Ability, charisma, power, and brilliance are very separate from their personal sex/lust life.

Taking women has a lot to do with power, or rather, the show of it.

First of all it's humiliating to the men and to the race in question, and it may also be an attempt to spread the genetic bloodline while diluting the one that had lost the war.

As they put it, "胜者为王,败者为寇" - Losers have no rights to and for anything.

[tape]

I know, which is why it's much more probable that he did not respect others' wives, especially enemy's, and took them if it so pleased him in any way.

Unless there is pretty concrete evidence or almost unanimous agreement from most sources, I'm inclined to not really believe in noble conquerors that did not eventually fall into greed and lust of some sort.

[Banh Mi]

Unless there is pretty concrete evidence or almost unanimous agreement from most sources, I'm inclined to not really believe in noble conquerors that did not eventually fall into greed and lust of some sort.

I'm not sure about evidence, but it's been noted that Alexander of Macedonia was an honourable guy. He had a harem but I don't think there's been any record of him raping. On the other hand, he showed quite a bit of restraint.

When he captured Darius' family, he treated them with the respect due royalty. He encouraged equality in his conquered states.

[Guo Xiang]

I'm not sure about evidence, but it's been noted that Alexander of Macedonia was an honourable guy. He had a harem but I don't think there's been any record of him raping. On the other hand, he showed quite a bit of restraint.

When he captured Darius' family, he treated them with the respect due royalty. He encouraged equality in his conquered states.

Maybe it's partly down to him being a bisexual.

[Ken Cheng]

I'm not sure about evidence, but it's been noted that Alexander of Macedonia was an honourable guy. He had a harem but I don't think there's been any record of him raping. On the other hand, he showed quite a bit of restraint.

When he captured Darius' family, he treated them with the respect due royalty. He encouraged equality in his conquered states.

Alexander was a canny politician as well as a great military mind. He knew it would be much easier to rule over an empire in which he was respected and loved rather than just feared.

[Banh Mi]

Maybe it's partly down to him being a bisexual.

I just wanted to point out that there was a conqueror who respected his conquered within reason.

Alexander was a canny politician as well as a great military mind. He knew it would be much easier to rule over an empire in which he was respected and loved rather than just feared.

Yeah, what I like most about him is his charisma and peculiar character. Best illustrated with this story.

Alexander the Great met Diogenes, then a very old man. The powerful young conqueror, being solicitous of the old philosopher, asked what, if anything he could do for him. Diogenes replied, "I have nothing to ask but that you would remove to the other side, that you may not, by intercepting the sunshine, take from me what you cannot give". As Alexander took his leave, he said "If I were not Alexander, I would be Diogenes."

[pannonian]

Alexander was a canny politician as well as a great military mind. He knew it would be much easier to rule over an empire in which he was respected and loved rather than just feared.

That may have been partly the case, but his actions elsewhere suggest he was inspired by the life of Kyros the Great, as related by Xenophon. Achilles the warrior and Kyros the statesman seem to have been his twin role models.