Demi-Gods Semi-Devil's underlying point

[palmchange]

What is different about DGSD? Is there any underlying philosophy or hidden story?

For example:

In SOD,
-there is the idea about Castrating yourself to learn a certain kung fu.
-the idea about making friends with the Evil-sect and not care what others think because you both love and understand music at the same level.
-The idea about falling in love with a girl from the Evil-sect and not caring what people think
-the irony of being an obidient student to your master and having the utmost respect for him and believing he's a good guy.

In ROCH,
-the idea of teacher/student love relationship.

In LOCH,
-different because the hero is not the usual bright and talented.



Is there anything about DGSD that makes it stand out from other wuxia novels?

I know there is the brother/sister relationship thing in the beginning but it never happened and they weren't real siblings anyway right?

[Candide]

There are many main themes in DGSD, one of them is: the more powerful you become, the more miserable you will be (unless you become enlightened). Then there's the issue of racism/nationality and a few other kinky stuff.

[HuangYushi]

To quote the author JY on his own works:

• SOD - to highlight the different personalities of people who are involved in politics, political pursuits and politicking.
  That's why SOD/XAJH remains one of my favourite JY stories - because its underlying theme is the very issue that has bugged mankind since time immemorial, i.e. power and politics.
  
  
• ROCH - to highlight the impact of societal norms and customs on people.
  
  
• LOCH - to create a story using characters with simple, pure and unsophisticated personalities, in order to enable these characters to make deep impressions in readers' minds -- in accordance with the traditional style of the wandering oral storyteller in the olden days.
  
  
• DGSD - to highlight the joys and sorrows of life through a wide variety of personalities, against a backdrop of Buddhist belief (according to the prologue to the novel).
  Along the way, the story grew and expanded so much that it ended up covering a wide range of themes about personal growth/viewpoints, relationships, family, patriotism, etc.

To palmchange:
If you read the actual novel in Chinese, you will have a better picture of the obvious themes as well as the less obvious ones.

[Suet Seung]

To quote the author JY on his own works:

• SOD - to highlight the different personalities of people who are involved in politics, political pursuits and politicking.
  That's why SOD/XAJH remains one of my favourite JY stories - because its underlying theme is the very issue that has bugged mankind since time immemorial, i.e. power and politics.
  
  
• ROCH - to highlight the impact of societal norms and customs on people.
  
  
• LOCH - to create a story using characters with simple, pure and unsophisticated personalities, in order to enable these characters to make deep impressions in readers' minds -- in accordance with the traditional style of the wandering oral storyteller in the olden days.
  
  
• DGSD - to highlight the joys and sorrows of life through a wide variety of personalities, against a backdrop of Buddhist belief (according to the prologue to the novel).
  Along the way, the story grew and expanded so much that it ended up covering a wide range of themes about personal growth/viewpoints, relationships, family, patriotism, etc.

To palmchange:
If you read the actual novel in Chinese, you will have a better picture of the obvious themes as well as the less obvious ones.

HuangYuShi, I always enjoy reading your posts. Very informative.

[Dennis Chen]

I think HSDS is a story about the relationship of man to his fellow man.

[Zhuge Liang]

A common theme is that what is just may not be what the majority espouses and often to do the right thing you have to directly oppose them.

Also that you can be a total hypocrite but still be respected as long as you are discreet about it.

And in most of his novels, Jin Yong's message is not to piss off women lest you hit the jackpot and they turn out like Li Mochou, MieJue etc.

[bliss]

A major theme in DGSD I felt was irony. People who chase something endlessly end up with nothing at all. People who don't really want power and fame somehow end up with it anyway. For example, Murong Fu and Jio Morzhi, they both end up with squat in the end. In the meanwhile, Duan Yu who hated martial arts and Xu Zhu some random idiotic monk end up as demigods with ridiculous martial arts and power. Such is the irony in life.

[Dennis Chen]

Jiu Mozhi gained enlightenment at the end. That's worth alot.

[HuangYushi]

HuangYuShi, I always enjoy reading your posts. Very informative.

Thank you! Long-term hazards of being an ex-journalist......

[bliss]

Jiu Mozhi gained enlightenment at the end. That's worth alot.

I meant in context to what he originally was after, which was martial arts.

[Du Gu seeking a win]

I think HSDS is a story about the relationship of man to his fellow man.

*
My view : HSDS revolutionizes wuxia novels.

Q: What is the usual wuxia novel all about?
A: It is mainly about revenge.

In HSDS the main protagonist ZWJ dispenses with revenge.
If I may rephrase Neil Armstrong's quip (on the moon):
A small step of a human being but a gigantic leap in the wuxia genre

The leitmotiv is also about the question:
how would a naive, kind hearted and forgiving person like ZWJ fare in a world full of deceit (Zhu Cheng Ling, Zhu Yuan Zhang etc.) and deviousness ('the gang of four' girls)

[Du Gu seeking a win]

I meant in context to what he originally was after, which was martial arts.

At the end, Jiumoti was lightened of his martial arts

[palmchange]

A major theme in DGSD I felt was irony. People who chase something endlessly end up with nothing at all. People who don't really want power and fame somehow end up with it anyway. For example, Murong Fu and Jio Morzhi, they both end up with squat in the end. In the meanwhile, Duan Yu who hated martial arts and Xu Zhu some random idiotic monk end up as demigods with ridiculous martial arts and power. Such is the irony in life.

I agree with that. Well at least from what I saw in the last version of DGSD. Never read the book.

What about Qiao feng in this novel? He seemed to be a top fighter that got mad easily and spent his life tried to defend his character and figure out his origins, then in the end he just killed himself...

[Suet Seung]

I agree there is irony in DGSD. The contrast between Duan Yu and Mo Rong Fu is very clear. Duan Yu being the next heir of the Dali Throne...a position MRF always wanted and tried to pursue as ruler of the Yan empire. But failed no matter what he did. Some people have all the luck and others just don't.

[c13:4567]

A major theme in DGSD I felt was irony. People who chase something endlessly end up with nothing at all. People who don't really want power and fame somehow end up with it anyway. For example, Murong Fu and Jio Morzhi, they both end up with squat in the end. In the meanwhile, Duan Yu who hated martial arts and Xu Zhu some random idiotic monk end up as demigods with ridiculous martial arts and power. Such is the irony in life.

i don't think irony is the best description but i agree with you too.

of the 3 sworn brothers, xiao feng is the most proactive in his thinking and doings. he wanted to change circumstances, pursue the truth, take revenge but his life ended up the most bitter. xu zhu is the most passive but because of this, he started out with nothing and ended up with everything. duan yu is kinda in between, he started with nobility and wealth but doesn't care for those things throughout. all he wanted and chased for is love, love for his family, friends, wang yuyan, nature, mankind...etc. and he ended up with alot more.

i don't know if this has anything to do with Buddhist belief or just personalities and circumstances of life.

[Red Piggy]

i love tianglongbabu because the novel has so many mini stories and each of them is unique with their own motivation and goals but every character is somehow interrelated and affected one another within the novel

[wuming]

How does the title of this story relate to point(s) of the story itself?

Demi gods semi devils?

Sky dragon eight steps (literal)?

Contrast with LOCH, ROCH and HSDS which have at least some reference to the stories themselves.

[HuangYushi]

How does the title of this story relate to point(s) of the story itself?
Demi gods semi devils?
Sky dragon eight steps (literal)?
Contrast with LOCH, ROCH and HSDS which have at least some reference to the stories themselves.

In the prologue to DGSD, JY describes eight different Buddhist figures, including Yaksha, Ashura, etc, and highlights their different personalities. These 8 figures are called "tian long ba bu" as a whole.

Although there are no supernatural Buddhist figures -- perhaps, the sweeper monk notwithstanding -- in DGSD, JY used "tian long ba bu" as the title of the story. The story itself is meant to highlight the joys and sorrows of life through a wide variety of personalities, against a backdrop of Buddhist belief.

I would hazard a guess that when TVB made DGSD in 1982 (with Leung Kar Yan, Ken Tong, Felix Wong and Idy Chan), they decided to translate "tian long ba bu" as "Demi Gods and Semi Devils" because of the reference to the 8 Buddhist figures. Since then, the name DGSD became "stuck" as the most common name for "tian long ba bu".

The Zhang Jizhong version (2003, with Hu Jun, Jimmy Lin and Gao Hu) was called "Heaven Dragon, Eighth Episode" in English -- a literal translation of the words "tian long ba bu".

[palmchange]

what were some of the buddhist themes in DGSD?

I only watched the 2003 movie, never read the book so i don't know if they're similiar.

[HuangYushi]

what were some of the buddhist themes in DGSD?
I only watched the 2003 movie, never read the book so i don't know if they're similiar.

The 2003 version contains most of the major events in the book, but it is not exactly completely totally faithful to the original text, which is 50 chapters long. It is quite hard to squeeze all that into 40 episodes or so.

I am not familiar with Buddhist teachings in general, so besides what JY explicitly writes about in the prologue to the novel, and specific bits and pieces here and there in the story, I cannot say much about it. Sorry.

But if you can read Chinese characters, you can get a copy of DGSD (2nd edition) online at the link below:
http://qiqi.com/cgi-bin/bk2.pl?fd1=b...inyong&in=jy11

If you prefer to read in English, there are links in the Wuxia Translations Forum:
http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=6435