Are Wuxia series going to get phased out?

[tangoki]

Hi everyone,
New to here and wanted to say hi. I grew up during the golden era of wuxia like many of you, the 80s and 90s series really captivated my interested and TVB was pumping out those shows quite frequently. With great shows like LOCH, ROCH, HSDS, SOD etc it was hard not to be a fan. The kids today don't have as much exposure to them since TVB hasn't really made one since HSDS 2000 I believe, do you guys think the genre is slowly going to get phased out?

[Ken Cheng]

TVB isn't doing them anymore, but production companies in China and Taiwan are, so wuxia television will likely continue in some form...just not the TVB variety.

[Dirt]

Why'd TVB stop?

[Ken Cheng]

Why'd TVB stop?

I'm guessing it wasn't very cost-effective for them anymore. A wuxia production is always more expensive than most other kinds of productions because of special effects, location filming, etc.

Also, Jin Yong pulled the plug on TVB after that travesty that was HSDS 2000. Without Jin Yong's novels as source material, there isn't much point to doing wuxia. TVB could always adapt Gu Long's or other authors' material or even make their own original stuff, but not being able to do Jin Yong's material puts a damper on things.

[kidd]

The last wuxia adaptation TVB made is 'The Four' in 2008. The adapted from Wen Rui An's 'The 4 Great Constables' novels.

I don't think it's only the cost. TVB is still making series set in ancient and pre-modern era. They just stop making wuxia series. It could be because the ratings of the last few wuxia series they made are not very good. So, they stopped. I'm disappointed with this decision. I still like TVB's wuxia series.

[tangoki]

Yea it's definitely very disappointing to see them stop... I was the biggest fan but since TVB stopped making them I found I haven't really watched any lately until I came across State of Divinity 1996 and decided to re watch it, Fiona is the best!!
I guess for people like me who can't read chinese have to learn to read it or learn mandarin to keep watching wuxias...

[Ken Cheng]

TVB is still making series set in ancient and pre-modern era.

Those are less expensive; hardly any pyrotechnics, CGI, or stunt people involved in those palace dramas. Wuxia series production *automatically* means budgeting for SFX, plus likely extra insurance costs due to the necessary danger of filming.

[Ian Liew]

I think quite a lot of TVB's current younger actors will struggle to carry themselves in wuxia. It's probably due to lack of exposure - you play minor roles first, and then graduate to bigger roles watching your seniors do their stuff. The Four was really nice, but I felt that Ron Ng completely lacked any screen presence as a daxia, and the customary coolness he has in modern serials did not carry over to the serious ancient setting. Sammul wasn't great either, but his role was saved by some excellent comic relief and just sheer likability. Kenneth Ma was real quality, though. Wuxia setting takes a lot more skill to act out, the script is more classy and it's more tiring in terms of makeup and physical effort. A lot of current actors are very .. modern.

TVB's veterans are also not what they used to be. Arguably even more than the main leads, the supporting cast usually carry the serial and lend their strength to provide a strong platform for the young leads to try and shine. In the golden 80s TVB could churn out any turd and despite not all leads being inspired it would still be immensely watchable due to the supporting cast. Like in Face to Fate - it was great throughout, but when Frankie Lam started looking for those old retired warriors to help him in the duel for wulin, watching stalwarts like Chan Wing Chun and Jimmy Au do their stuff was just inspiring. If we just imagine, hypothetically, TVB were going to do LOCH now (or maybe more realistically, Little Li's Flying Dagger), who would you cast in all the roles? It's going to be tough.

[Ken Cheng]

TVB's veterans are also not what they used to be. Arguably even more than the main leads, the supporting cast usually carry the serial and lend their strength to provide a strong platform for the young leads to try and shine. In the golden 80s TVB could churn out any turd and despite not all leads being inspired it would still be immensely watchable due to the supporting cast. Like in Face to Fate - it was great throughout, but when Frankie Lam started looking for those old retired warriors to help him in the duel for wulin, watching stalwarts like Chan Wing Chun and Jimmy Au do their stuff was just inspiring. If we just imagine, hypothetically, TVB were going to do LOCH now (or maybe more realistically, Little Li's Flying Dagger), who would you cast in all the roles? It's going to be tough.

If TVB were to remake LOCH again today, I wouldn't know where to begin in casting characters such as the Greats or Genghis Khan. In the end, TVB could probably do no better than bring back some of the actors who portrayed them during the 1980s and 1990s (it'd be ridiculous in Lau Dan's case, playing North Beggar Hung 7 Gung for the third time).

If TVB were to remake DGSD, who on their current talent roster could believably play Kiu Fung, in terms of physical prowess, appearance, and acting? If TVB were to remake LUK SIU FUNG, who could handle the roles of the title character, Fa Mun Lau, or especially Sai Mun Chui Sheut and Yip Goo Sing?

I agree that the talent base TVB has today is inadequate for performing a credible wuxia adaptation.

[jadebunny9]

Indeed, the biggest problem with TVB right now is lack of a talent base. Sure, they're bringing back older veterans, but let's face it, who wants to see a 40/50 year old actor playing a young main character? They attempted to do that with HSDS 2000, which got them banned from touching JY's works again. I really cannot see any stars from the younger generation playing these wuxia roles.

Which is really unfortunate, because I really did enjoy the older TVB wuxia dramas. They might not be as good as the mainland Chinese versions in terms of scenery or pretty girls, however, they've got the essence of the story down. After YZ got his hands on XAJH, he's planning on remaking DGSD and ROCH. Now THAT would truly be catastrophic. I wouldn't be surprised if YZ decided to make ROCH into a love triangle between YG, XLN, and YZB. Bleh.

[kidd]

Yeah, Yu Zheng getting his hands on Jin Yong is a catastrophe. He's already saying he will expand on the love story of YLS, LWC and RYY. And add in TFBB too since in his version TFBB's boyfriend looks like LHC.

I think if TVB is willing to look into its pool of young actors, they might get some right casting. When Felix was cast as Guo Jing, he was still quite new and young, right? TVB has more young actors than just Ron, Raymond, Bosco and Kenneth.

If you were asked to think of the casting of a TVB Romance of The 3 Kingdom adaptation, I get you can't either. But, in '3 Kingdom RPG', a lot of second line actors were cast in well-known characters (they have small roles in the series but are important characters in the novel or history) and they did very well.

Check out this very detailed review of 3 Kingdom RPG. The reviewer take about most of the minor characters that appear.

http://point2e-reviews.blogspot.com/...s-rpg-tvb.html

[Ken Cheng]

I think if TVB is willing to look into its pool of young actors, they might get some right casting. When Felix was cast as Guo Jing, he was still quite new and young, right? TVB has more young actors than just Ron, Raymond, Bosco and Kenneth.

I'm more worried about how TVB would cast the supporting characters than the leads. Sometimes, a young actor might prove himself or herself in a lead role, but it takes actors with experience and gravitas to pull off characters such as the Greats, Cheung 3 Fung, Genghis Khan, etc. Does TVB have better options than going back to the well and bringing back the actors who already portrayed those characters decades ago?

[Ian Liew]

I'm more worried about how TVB would cast the supporting characters than the leads. Sometimes, a young actor might prove himself or herself in a lead role, but it takes actors with experience and gravitas to pull off characters such as the Greats, Cheung 3 Fung, Genghis Khan, etc. Does TVB have better options than going back to the well and bringing back the actors who already portrayed those characters decades ago?

Watching Lok Ying Kwan play Xie Xun and the LOCH Huang Yaoshi was quite painful for me, although for some reason he kind of got the ROCH Huang Yaoshi look kind of right. Lawrence Ng's Zhang Wuji wasn't that bad.. if you didn't know who he was and were willing to just watch him on his merit, he did a decent job (although he sometimes felt more tired than innocent). Gigi Lai and Charmaine Sheh also did their roles justice, but the veterans did not quite have the same feel. Eddie Cheung aside, I can't remember anyone else having any captivating screen presence compared to the cast of the 86 version.

[tangoki]

I watched the 2000 Version of HSDS and thought it wasn't too bad either... despite Lawrence being a bit on the older side... I know a few of you guys mentioned that it was this show that got TVB banned from producing wuxia but what specifically was wrong with this version that made it so bad?

[tangoki]

I'm more worried about how TVB would cast the supporting characters than the leads. Sometimes, a young actor might prove himself or herself in a lead role, but it takes actors with experience and gravitas to pull off characters such as the Greats, Cheung 3 Fung, Genghis Khan, etc. Does TVB have better options than going back to the well and bringing back the actors who already portrayed those characters decades ago?

It's true that the current talen at TVB may not be able to portray big characters such as the Greats, Cheung 3 Fung etc but even the great actors like Felix wong got started somewhere... if TVB were allowed to make them again I think slowly the talent would be built and they would be able to produce some good quality series again.. lets hope one day this ban is lifted

[Ian Liew]

I watched the 2000 Version of HSDS and thought it wasn't too bad either... despite Lawrence being a bit on the older side... I know a few of you guys mentioned that it was this show that got TVB banned from producing wuxia but what specifically was wrong with this version that made it so bad?

I think it was the plot liberties - although in that respect HSDS 2000 wasn't the worst by any means - the Golden 80s serials had lots of pointless changes to the plot, and even Crimson Sabre 2000 had some really horrible major changes to the plot. HSDS 2000 was more of the straw which broke the camel's back rather than any revolutionary disaster which prompted Jin Yong to scream in fury.

It's true that the current talen at TVB may not be able to portray big characters such as the Greats, Cheung 3 Fung etc but even the great actors like Felix wong got started somewhere... if TVB were allowed to make them again I think slowly the talent would be built and they would be able to produce some good quality series again.. lets hope one day this ban is lifted

Even in the old days when Felix was just starting out, TVB had a rich pool of veterans to draw from. In DGSD 81, when Felix started out as Xu Zhu, we had Patrick Tse, Cheung Ying Choy, Lau Siu Ming, Yeung Chak Lam, Kenneth Chun Kong, and the late Kwan Hoi San, Shek Kin and Lau Hak Seen, among others, as supporting veteran cast. TVB today can only dream of having such support. Without a good supporting cast, a wuxia serial will be quite painful to watch, unlike modern serials which can probably get away with mediocre acting, especially if it's a typical TVB gag series. TVB will not want to produce something they know will bomb.

Forget Jin Yong, which are mainly epic stories which require a very strong veteran presence for all the rich and varied characters. Let's assume Gu Long.. something simple. Not Luk Siu Fung, because there are too many colourful characters in there too across the popular novels. Imagine.. Sentimental Swordsman Ruthless Sword. Forget the main characters - it shouldn't be too hard to find a single decent middle aged guy for Li Xunhuan, and some young talented upstart for Ah Fei. A couple of pretty girls for Lin Xianer and Sun Xiaohong shouldn't also be too hard, and TVB's other lesser stars can probably play the other cool characters like Guo Songyang, Jing Wuming, Lu Fengxian... and the kelefes will handle the rest. Who will you choose to play Shangguan Jinhong and Old Man Sun? If either of these are poorly casted, it will make for a very miserable serial. Just two veterans, and I can't think of any regular veteran who fits the role. We don't have any qianbei-type of actor anymore, and no, Lok Ying Kwan will not do either character justice. His roles seem to have shrunk a lot in recent years too... maybe they belatedly figured out that he lacked charisma.

[kidd]

There's still Lau Dan, Chan Wing Chun, Law Lok Lam, Chun Pui.

[Ian Liew]

There's still Lau Dan, Chan Wing Chun, Law Lok Lam, Chun Pui.

Lau Dan? Wow - he's still acting? He was... Shangguan Jinhong in the Romantic Swordsman 78 (at least for a few minutes)! He would most definitely qualify for virtually any role!

Chan Wing Chun is actually a far better actor than TVB gave him credit for - I always wondered why he never got bigger roles. Law Lok Lam and Chun Pui are also great actors, although I'm struggling to picture them in wuxia these days. Chun Pui would probably make a decent SGJH, actually.

Are Har Yu and Miu Kiu Wai still around? The thought of the mature Miu Kiu Wai as Li Xunhuan is actually quite a salivating one!

[Ken Cheng]

There's still Lau Dan, Chan Wing Chun, Law Lok Lam, Chun Pui.

To use a sports analogy, the bench has some experienced and proven veterans, but it's old and lacks depth. Compare the depth of TVB's veteran character actor bench today to the bench it had during the 1970s and 1980s, and you find that it's alarmingly thin. For example, imagine that TVB decided to do LOCH 2013, and brought back Lau Dan to play North Beggar Hung 7 Gung *again*. While I'm sure we can count on Lau Dan to do a good job once again having owned the character during the 1980s and 1990s, just the idea that TVB has no other recourse than to have the same actor play the same character for the third time in as many productions just shows a dismaying lack of imagination and talent depth.

Moreover, even if TVB were to get Lau Dan to be Hung 7 Gung again, who could really pull off East Heretic Wong Yerk See, West Poison Au Yeung Fung, South Emperor 1 Deng, and Chow Bak Tung today? TVB completely lacks the talent depth to credibly fill all these roles. Its bench is just too thin.

[Ken Cheng]

I think it was the plot liberties - although in that respect HSDS 2000 wasn't the worst by any means - the Golden 80s serials had lots of pointless changes to the plot, and even Crimson Sabre 2000 had some really horrible major changes to the plot. HSDS 2000 was more of the straw which broke the camel's back rather than any revolutionary disaster which prompted Jin Yong to scream in fury.

I think HSDS 2000 was especially egregious. Jin Yong never complained about the 1980s or 1990s TVB adaptations of his work. In fact, for years, he cited ROCH '83 as his favorite adaptation of any of his works, and that adaptation was loaded with changes and deviations from the original text (as were most 1980s adaptations).

I think that the difference was that during the 1980s, the changes respected the *essence* of Jin Yong's original stories, and were done with a sense of dignity. By the time of HSDS 2000, however, it seemed like TVB had lost the essence of Jin Yong's works in its adaptations.