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Thread: Did Chu Yeun Cheung deliberately ruin Cheung Mo Gei's reputation?

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default Did Chu Yeun Cheung deliberately ruin Cheung Mo Gei's reputation?

    Most of the major heroes in Jin Yong's novels became legendary figures to future generations. In LOCH, such DGSD titans as Kiu Fung, Hui Juk, and Deun Yu were spoken of reverently. Similarly, in HSDS, Gwok Jing and Yeung Gor were remembered as the greatest heroes of their time. In DOMD, Ling Wu Chung was regarded as a prominent wulin figure of his era.

    But there were never any references back to Cheung Mo Gei in novels that post-dated HSDS in continuity, despite the high level of martial arts he achieved and his many heroic accomplishments in the wulin of his era.

    Is it possible that Cheung Mo Gei's heroic legacy was sullied by Chu Yeun Cheung as part of the latter's process of ascending to the position of founding Ming Emperor? Remember: to reach the position of Emperor, Chu first had to set Cheung Mo Gei up to quit as leader of the Ming Cult. Then, Chu Yeun Cheung had to bide his time until Cheung Mo Gei's successor, Yeung Siu, was too old to continue to effectively lead the cult. At that point, Chu Yeun Cheung took over as Cult Leader and, after the Mongols were repulsed and the Ming Dynasty took hold, wiped out the cult. To justify his actions to his followers, Chu Yeun Cheung could not let the Ming Cult look good; they had to be identified as traitors and enemies (much like what Darth Sidious/Emperor Palpatine did to the Jedi Order in STAR WARS: REVENGE OF THE SITH). Hence, it wouldn't do for Cheung Mo Gei to maintain this heroic reputation. I think Chu Yeun Cheung rewrote wulin history and somehow diminished Cheung Mo Gei's legacy.

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    Member immakiku's Avatar
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    That makes a lot of sense. For someone who schemed to take over the throne and intended to hold it, that seems like the best course of action would be to propagate a bad reputation for the Ming Cult and CWJ. Then there's also the thought that his acts were not heroic enough and that not enough people passed the word down (perhaps even CWJ didn't want to be too famous).

    ...Though I don't think the mere fact that CWJ wasn't mentioned in later books is enough to be any proof of this.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Laviathan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    Most of the major heroes in Jin Yong's novels became legendary figures to future generations. In LOCH, such DGSD titans as Kiu Fung, Hui Juk, and Deun Yu were spoken of reverently.
    Only Xiao Feng was mentioned by later generations.

    Duan Yu was merely mentioned by Yideng when he summed up Dali monarchs who became monks.

    Xuzhu is not mentioned at all, only by the narrator.

    Is it possible that Cheung Mo Gei's heroic legacy was sullied by Chu Yeun Cheung as part of the latter's process of ascending to the position of founding Ming Emperor?
    Nope, not necessary.

    Remember: to reach the position of Emperor, Chu first had to set Cheung Mo Gei up to quit as leader of the Ming Cult.
    Doesn't happen anymore, Zhang Wuji quits because he wanted to.

    Then, Chu Yeun Cheung had to bide his time until Cheung Mo Gei's successor, Yeung Siu, was too old to continue to effectively lead the cult.
    Yang Xiao doesn't become leader in the 3rd edition.

    At that point, Chu Yeun Cheung took over as Cult Leader and, after the Mongols were repulsed and the Ming Dynasty took hold, wiped out the cult.
    Zhu Yuanzhang never became leader of the Ming Cult.

    To justify his actions to his followers, Chu Yeun Cheung could not let the Ming Cult look good; they had to be identified as traitors and enemies (much like what Darth Sidious/Emperor Palpatine did to the Jedi Order in STAR WARS: REVENGE OF THE SITH). Hence, it wouldn't do for Cheung Mo Gei to maintain this heroic reputation. I think Chu Yeun Cheung rewrote wulin history and somehow diminished Cheung Mo Gei's legacy.
    Then why did Zhu Yuanzhang name his dynasty after the Ming Cult?

    Yes, Wuji did a lot of good things for the martial arts world and he was the spiritual leader of the Ming Cultists, but frankly, in the field of military and political accomplishments, Wuji didn't do anything. Zhang Wuji was only known by members of Wulin, while the entire realm knows about the military feats of General Zhu Yuanzhang, Prince of Wu.

    So, although it would be logical for Zhu Yuanzhang to persecute the Ming Cult to secure his imperial power, it would be redundant for him to darken Wuji's reputation with slander.

    How can an Emperor, no matter how powerful he is, rewrite WULIN history?

    To the Chinese citizens, to the world, Zhu Yuanzhang is the saviour of the Han-Chinese, the one who gave the Mongols the final deathblow. He is their emperor, and his power is as legitimate as it can get. Normal citizens do not know who Zhang Wuji is, only insiders of the martial arts community know. And no matter what, an emperor cannot change the views of wulin members, he doesn't have to... For he is the ruler of a country, not the lord protector of the martial arts world.
    對 敵 須 狠 , 斬 草 除 根 , 男 女 老 幼 , 不 留 一 人

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    Is it possible that Cheung Mo Gei's heroic legacy was sullied by Chu Yeun Cheung as part of the latter's process of ascending to the position of founding Ming Emperor? Remember: to reach the position of Emperor, Chu first had to set Cheung Mo Gei up to quit as leader of the Ming Cult. Then, Chu Yeun Cheung had to bide his time until Cheung Mo Gei's successor, Yeung Siu, was too old to continue to effectively lead the cult. At that point, Chu Yeun Cheung took over as Cult Leader and, after the Mongols were repulsed and the Ming Dynasty took hold, wiped out the cult. To justify his actions to his followers, Chu Yeun Cheung could not let the Ming Cult look good; they had to be identified as traitors and enemies (much like what Darth Sidious/Emperor Palpatine did to the Jedi Order in STAR WARS: REVENGE OF THE SITH). Hence, it wouldn't do for Cheung Mo Gei to maintain this heroic reputation. I think Chu Yeun Cheung rewrote wulin history and somehow diminished Cheung Mo Gei's legacy.
    I agreed with this part. but i also agreed that Laviathan's pt that zwj has no intention of being king in the first part. hence cyc does have an upper hand in "denoucing" the ming cult. anyway, in real life, such things happen too.

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    The real life emperor zhu yuan zhang is a capable yet despotic emperor . He and yongli are the best emperor ming dynasty can ever have but both are super cruel

    Qing dynasty is a more fortunate one , it has three great like emperors to bulid up a strong foundation but yong zhen is very cruel emperor too
    Last edited by hentaixp; 07-12-05 at 11:43 AM.

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    Senior Member kyss of the sword's Avatar
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    Zhu Yuanzhang named his dynasty ming because many of his followers were ming members, and he didn't actually wipe out the sect, just those who supported wuji and the old guard. after that, the ming sect lost power. it went back into hiding ,so to speak.
    THE KYSS OF THE SWORD IS DEADLY BUT EXQUSITE
    he's the strongest in history but he's the disciple.
    http://www.mangafox.com/manga/histor...ciple_kenichi/

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