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Thread: Hockey anyone?

  1. #101
    Senior Member Bai Qi44's Avatar
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    The Avs didn't lose that many players, but they lost the 2 that matters the most. Losing Foppa means the Avs aren't going to the SC finals. Losing Foote means they're much weaker on D.

    Still, they have a very capable team that can challenge for the division again.

    The Wings look like they're royally screwed! They might lose Datsyuk(sp?) on top of their already much depleted roster with a couple of returning veterans who shold've retired already. It's a question whether or not they can still make the playoffs.

    I'm also not impress with the Oilers. Everyone thinks they're much better with Pronger and Peca, but how many starters did the Oilers lose from those 2 trades? Peca won't outscore York and Pronger might be an upgrade on Edmonton's defence, he can also backfire on them depending on how the new NHL will be played. You need speedy d-man who can handle the puck and Pronger is a pylon sorry to say.
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  2. #102
    Member Kolab's Avatar
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    Why do the red wings always have trouble signing their russian players, it's like its a curse or something? Fetisov, Larionov, Federov, and now Datsyuk. Fetisov left the team, Federov almost left and finally left, Larionov was traded, returned, and left as well. Now Datsyuk will probably miss the entire season unless he works in a out clause with his russian team.

    Question: who do you think is the top three young goaltenders around?

  3. #103
    Senior Member Bai Qi44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kolab
    Why do the red wings always have trouble signing their russian players, it's like its a curse or something? Fetisov, Larionov, Federov, and now Datsyuk. Fetisov left the team, Federov almost left and finally left, Larionov was traded, returned, and left as well. Now Datsyuk will probably miss the entire season unless he works in a out clause with his russian team.

    Question: who do you think is the top three young goaltenders around?
    Well, every team in the league either had or will have trouble signing Russians now that there is a cap and a lot of Russian clubs can offer big salaries. Our Nucks lost Chubarov (a very good checker) to a Russian team. The man makes $1mill a season in Vancouver and would've probably made the same had he stayed. I guess he got a better contract in Russia or roughly the same, but he gets to play in his home country for roughly the same so it's hard to blame him or any Russian.

    As for top 3 goaltenders. It's got to be Loungo, Theodore (if he's still consider young), and maybe Vokun.
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  4. #104
    Senior Member superkaratemonkey's Avatar
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    of all the russian that the nhl have/could lose, datsyuk is the one i'll miss the most (along with kovalchuk). pavel is so good with the puck, and even though hes not a superstar, hes more entertaining to watch then 99% of the players in the league. hes a human hi-lite reel show, i think the nhl will miss him dearly.

    top 3 young goalie? luongo, lehtenon, fleury. in that order

  5. #105
    Senior Member Bai Qi44's Avatar
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    Fleury hasn't done anything in the NHL yet, just like Crosby hasn't done a thing either. It's not a good idea to judge players base on hype. If it was, then Lindros would be up there with Gretzky, Orr, and Lemieux. And Diagle would be a superstar. Pat Fallon is the greatest 2nd overall draft pick ever.


    As far as lehtenon goes, he's even worse than Fleury. The guy's only played 4 NHL games and deserves no mention of a good young goaltender till he proves himself.
    Last edited by Bai Qi44; 09-04-05 at 08:51 AM.
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  6. #106
    Member Kolab's Avatar
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    The trouble with the red wings signing the russian players goes back to 1998, when they almost lost Federov to Carolina. It just seems the red wings can never keep a russian player for long. Example one year they drafted Federov, Lidstrom, and Konstantinov, only Lidstrom remains. And off all the russians they use to have on their team, they have none left.

    Would Nabakov be old or young?
    What of Giguerre? Hope i spell it right?
    How old is Luongo?

  7. #107
    Senior Member superkaratemonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bai Qi44
    Fleury hasn't done anything in the NHL yet, just like Crosby hasn't done a thing either. It's not a good idea to judge players base on hype. If it was, then Lindros would be up there with Gretzky, Orr, and Lemieux. And Diagle would be a superstar. Pat Fallon is the greatest 2nd overall draft pick ever.


    As far as lehtenon goes, he's even worse than Fleury. The guy's only played 4 NHL games and deserves no mention of a good young goaltender till he proves himself.
    when talking about young goaltenders, u've gotta look at potential, and thats what pushes lehtenon and fleury to the top of the list. its true they havent played much in the nhl, but they've played in other leagues and dominated. hasek didnt play in the nhl till 28, but does that mean he wasnt a good goalie till 28? also, you cant tell me that auld (who struggled badly in the ahl last year) is a better prospect then lehtenon (who dominated the ahl last year) just becuz the former played a few games in the nhl. sure, theres always a chance they'll be busts and never stick in the league, but base on their talent and successes, they should becomes good player in the nhl.

  8. #108
    Senior Member superkaratemonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kolab
    The trouble with the red wings signing the russian players goes back to 1998, when they almost lost Federov to Carolina. It just seems the red wings can never keep a russian player for long. Example one year they drafted Federov, Lidstrom, and Konstantinov, only Lidstrom remains. And off all the russians they use to have on their team, they have none left.

    Would Nabakov be old or young?
    What of Giguerre? Hope i spell it right?
    How old is Luongo?
    i dont think its a red wing only problem when it comes to keeping russian players. every team loses them. look at bure, mogilny, zubov, yashin, etc, they arent playing w/ the team that draft them. but its not that russians are different or greedy, not many players stick w/ the team that drafted them. yzerman, sakic, lidstrom, and lemieux are the only ones still playing for their original team.

    nabby, giggy and luongo are all still relatively young, i think goalies under 30 are young.

  9. #109
    Senior Member trizz251's Avatar
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    young goalies -- luongo, fleury, vokun

    people go where the money go usually. but then playing in the nhl means you get more publicity in the world hockey community. to me goalies under 30 are young, cause for some reason once you hit 30 you are starting to become a veteran

  10. #110
    Member Kolab's Avatar
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    Actually I thought once you get to 30, you hitting your prime years? Maybe I'm wrong.

  11. #111
    Senior Member superkaratemonkey's Avatar
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    it depends on your position. for forwards, you can hit your prime very early, even in your teen years like kovalchuk or nash. for dmen, it usually takes a bit longer to adjust to the nhl game, so they usually hit their prime in mid 20s. for goalies, it depends on each individuals, some hit their prime earlier and some later.

  12. #112
    Senior Member Bai Qi44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superkaratemonkey
    when talking about young goaltenders, u've gotta look at potential, and thats what pushes lehtenon and fleury to the top of the list. its true they havent played much in the nhl, but they've played in other leagues and dominated. hasek didnt play in the nhl till 28, but does that mean he wasnt a good goalie till 28? also, you cant tell me that auld (who struggled badly in the ahl last year) is a better prospect then lehtenon (who dominated the ahl last year) just becuz the former played a few games in the nhl. sure, theres always a chance they'll be busts and never stick in the league, but base on their talent and successes, they should becomes good player in the nhl.

    Well, potential is certainly there for those two goailes, but since they've done squat in the NHL means that they could still be big time flops. That's why I don't consider them as good young goalies until they've proven themselves. They might be good in junior, but the NHL is the most elite hockey league in the world and a lot of players perform differently once they play there (usually on the negative side). Btw, I don' t consider Auld a good goalie at all. He was average even when he had to stepped in for Cloutier last year. His performance was just average. And like your key word suggest "SHOULD" does not mean will. As for Hasek. No one considered him to be good till he was actually playing in the NHL and stealing games for the Sabres.



    i dont think its a red wing only problem when it comes to keeping russian players. every team loses them. look at bure, mogilny, zubov, yashin, etc, they arent playing w/ the team that draft them. but its not that russians are different or greedy, not many players stick w/ the team that drafted them. yzerman, sakic, lidstrom, and lemieux are the only ones still playing for their original team.

    nabby, giggy and luongo are all still relatively young, i think goalies under 30 are young.

    Actually, it's much more of a problem now signing Russian players than it ever was. It's not only the big names you're naming, but even sub par players like Chubarov are being signed in Russia. There were always problems in the past signing big name Russian players (or any other big name players from other nations) because they wanted more $$$ and they knew they were going to get it eventually. That has changed now however. There are a few factors for this recent trend.

    1) A lot of Russian clubs have the $$$ now to sign players unlike in the past when they were much poorer. There's a strong interest in hockey in Russia. I think it's the No. 2 sport behind only soccer.

    2) the NHL cap is limiting teams from offering Russian players more or equal to what they're being offered in Russia.

    3)If clubs like Detroit can't sign players like Datsyuk, there are only a few teams with cap space to sign him and that depends on them wanting to spend the money or not cause I know the Sabres, Wild, and Caps definititely will not spend the $$$ even though they are way under the cap. So even if the Wings wanted to trade him, they won't get any good offers or offers at all.


    As far as how one should classify how young a goaltender should be, it really depends on your own definition. I agree with Trizz cause my own definition does not include any goalie around the age of 30 to be young anymore. I consider anyone 27 or younger to be young. I think Theodore is around that age, but if he's older, then I guess he's not a young goalie to me anymore.
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  13. #113
    Senior Member superkaratemonkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bai Qi44
    Well, potential is certainly there for those two goailes, but since they've done squat in the NHL means that they could still be big time flops. That's why I don't consider them as good young goalies until they've proven themselves. They might be good in junior, but the NHL is the most elite hockey league in the world and a lot of players perform differently once they play there (usually on the negative side). Btw, I don' t consider Auld a good goalie at all. He was average even when he had to stepped in for Cloutier last year. His performance was just average. And like your key word suggest "SHOULD" does not mean will. As for Hasek. No one considered him to be good till he was actually playing in the NHL and stealing games for the Sabres.
    actually hasek was considered the best goalie not in the nhl back in his 20s. it was just difficult to get him over the the states, and once he was there he was playing behind belfore. he was widely considered a good goalie even b4 his sabres days.
    i agree somewhat with your argument about lehtonen being unproven, but fleury was playing exceptional in the first 2 months of the 03/04 season. he faces 40+ shots all the time and kept the pens in games. sure, he was burnt out after christmas and was sent down to the minors, but if pitt had a halfway decent team, fleury would've challenge for the 04 ROY award imo.
    anyways, mabbe i spent too much time over at hfboard.com, cuz i put alot of stock in players potential. can lehtonen flop? sure he could. but since his potential is a superstar goalie, and he had developed as schedule, i dont see why he wouldnt become the superstar goalie he was projected to be, so i rate him ahead of vokoun, theodeur, etc.

  14. #114
    Senior Member trizz251's Avatar
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    hey about theodore, ever since that great season he had, he never did any better has he? i'm beginning to think he's a one hit wonder

  15. #115
    Senior Member Bai Qi44's Avatar
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    Monkey, Ok. I guess I can give you Fleury considering that Pittsburgh had a horrid defense. Still, I have to see more out of him.

    As for Hasek. I did not know that. If he was considered good before playing in the NHL, he still should prove himself first (and he did) in the NHL. Goalies are much harder to judge than skaters cause goalies play the toughest position in hockey.

    Trizz. Theodore has actually been pretty good. Check out his numbers.
    at hockeydb.com I don't think I should consider him a young goalie anymore though cause he's like 29.
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  16. #116
    Senior Member superkaratemonkey's Avatar
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    i didnt watch as many mtl games as i wanted the last few yrs, but from what i've heard, theodore had been good since his hart trophy winning year, but not as dominate as that season tho. still, most would consider him a top 5 goalie in the league, so hes still pretty good. he had some personal/family issue (dad/brother accused of being in a mob) so he mite've been distracted.

  17. #117
    Senior Member trizz251's Avatar
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    stevens and damphousse calls it over, and theres no news with messier yet, where do you guys think he's gonna go. i think he should just call it over

  18. #118
    Senior Member superkaratemonkey's Avatar
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    macinnis retired today too. i think him and stevens are sure HOFers, i have alot of respect for them and will miss watching them on the hilites. i dont like damphousse so im glad to see him go. messier should retire, but i've been saying dat for yrs now....he'll goto edmonton

  19. #119
    Senior Member trizz251's Avatar
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    nah i don't know, maybe it's rumours, i'm not even sure if he'll show up in edmonton and what is he gonna do even if he is in edmonton?

  20. #120
    Senior Member superkaratemonkey's Avatar
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    edmonton need a second/third line center with skill right? and they need somebody to mentor their youngster right? and even with peca and pronger, they can always use more leadership rite? seems like messier is a perfect fit there imo.

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