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Thread: Third edition changes

  1. #201
    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athena
    However, at that moment he did not reveal his true identity yet. Because, he now knows someone else is on a killing spree and the Heroes Gathering at Shaolin in future will be an excellent time to clear Xiao Feng’s name. He and his other 4 martial arts brothers took their leave with that.
    .[/I]

    Wasn't the Heroes Gathering at Shaolin initiated much later by Quan Guan Qing and YTZ? At the time XF went to look for Zhiguang Da Shi, the whole heroes gathering plot at shaolin hadn't been hatched yet right?

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athena
    - After Xiao Feng was rescued, the Beggar’s Association wanted him back as leader. But he declined, Xiao Feng thought of way. He wanted Xuzhu to learn the Dog Beating stick and the 18 Dragon Subduing Palms, when the Beggars Association would find a suitable leader that person could learn these 2 skills from Xuzhu.
    Xiao Feng added that the last 10 stances of the 28 Dragon Subduing Palms were redundant, they were in fact repetitions, variations of the 18 previous palms. If the practitioner understands the essence of the Dragon Subduing Palms there is no need for the last 10 palms at all. He and Xuzhu sort of filtered out the good parts of the last 10 redundant stances and integrated those good parts into the earlier 18 palms.
    Many years later, a unnamed young beggar who rose in the ranks of the Beggar’s Association was appointed by the elders to seek out Xuzhu. Xuzhu tested that young beggar and deemed him worthy and taught him the Dog Beating Stick and the 18 Dragon Subduing Palms.
    What was Xiao Feng's reasoning for this? Unless he knew he was going to die or commit suicide, there's no reason he couldn't teach the new leader once he had been selected.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athena
    These are the more noticeable changes, I will add some others later on.
    Can you tell me more about Duan Yu's love life? I mean...I'm very interested to know how he ends up with Mu Wanqing (MWQ), Zhong Ling (ZL) and that Xixia palace maid. Some of questions that I really want to know are the following,

    - how did MWQ/ZL learn that DY is not their half-brother?
    - how did DY know & end up with Xixia palace maid?
    - what is the order of DY's girlfriends/wives (i.e., who come first, second and last)? If possible, could you give me a brief story behind this order?
    - how did MWQ accept the other two as DY's wives?

    Sorry about asking many questions. But I'm very curious about it.

  4. #204
    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    These changes don't sound that bad, but...how do I say this...

    ...it's as if in the Lord of the Rings, Tolkien suddenly decided, after years of them being classics, that, "Hey, I don't think Saruman really was such a bad guy. I'm going to make him misguided." Etc. etc. etc...

    Continuity/errors fixed is one things, but changes to the storyline...*shrug* I dunno

  5. #205
    Senior Member Du Gu seeking a win's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athena
    I will jot down those sloppy mistakes of him later on, when I read those mistake parts a bit clearly.

    *
    I believe one of the sloppy mistakes should be 'Jiumozi learning XWXG in 3 years time' after 'searching for DY again, he accidentally found the XWXG manual in the Wang mansion'. Since the whole story (TLBB) only covers a period of about 2 years, how could that be?

  6. #206
    Senior Member Trinie's Avatar
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    Hi Athena!
    Thank you sooo much for telling us the changes to the 3rd edition!! I am soo happy that it is finally out!!!So some of the rumours regarding the fact that WYY came back to her cousin before are true. Did Wang Yu Yan try to learn a martial arts skill that preserved youth?? Did it backfire and make her become old? Did the 4 Jian's like DY too?? What happened to them?? I am glad that Duan Yu ended up with MYQ and ZL since they deserve him more.
    Respect other people's opinions and views. If we learn how to do that than all of these fights and arguments will not occur.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athena
    Later on, Li Qiushui grew tired of Ding
    Someone posted on the Chinese forums a while ago, that Li Qiushui also wanted to kill Ding Chunqiu. What had actually triggered these motives? Is that another reason why she left those writings for her descendant (Duan Yu) to kill all those members of the Xiaoyao Sect? Why couldn’t she do it herself, and is Lingbo Weibu and Beiming Shengong really enough for DY to fulfil her wishes? Won’t it be more reasonable if she added in Xiaowu Xianggong? Questions have been raised of Li Qiushui’s sister’s connection with those writings from the 2nd edition but it seemed to be one part that’s left void in the newly revised edition.

    Also, that person talked of how Jin Yong managed to fill out the blank spots of Murong Bo using “Yi bi zhi dao, huan shi bi shen” to kill Xuanbei, in the process circulating suspicions that the Gusu Murong Family were the culprit. Well, Jin Yong wrote that Xuanbei was a tough cookie for Murong Bo to handle, and Murong Bo could find no other way to kill him. Upon saying that though, shouldn’t Xuanbei’s martial arts be on par with his fellow ‘Xuan’-ranked monks, or does he boast a stronger martial art pedigree than the others? Surely Murong Bo must’ve had plenty more tricks up his sleeve esp. if you take his unmatched Canghe Finger into account. All it needs is just a single hit, and Xuanbei’s heart will be teared open. Why take so much trouble, and in the end let his son be the scapegoat of his own crimes?

    Apparently, Xiao Yuanshan wasn’t involved with the killings that unfolded behind Xiao Feng’s back, and that Bai Shijing was the one who killed Elder Xu. In addition, (assuming it’s true) what business does an (80?) yr old beggar like Elder Xu have with Madame Ma and his subsequent fling with her?

    I know it sounds odd for me overwhelm you with so much questions even when I’m going to purchase it, but they’ve been queries I’ve been dying to know the answer of. If some explanations are provided I’ll be very grateful. The other more in-depth information I can gather from reading experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Athena
    Duan Yu realised that he never really loved Wang Yuyan, but loved the statue. He projected his love for the statue on Wang Yuyan and let her go. In contrast to Wuya Zi who remained oblivious till the end, Duan Yu could break the vicious circle on time. And he let her go, Wang Yuyan also pushed the jade statue and therefore freeing Duan Yu of his “curse.” It was very Zen, but logical.
    Nevertheless, he still looked upon her as his sister right? And do you mean “心
    魔” when you said “curse”? As that is a Buddhist term, and I can tell he wanted to promote the value of Buddhism more through this drastic change.

  8. #208
    Moderator kidd's Avatar
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    It sounds even lamer now for LQS and TSTL to fight over the fickle-minded WYZ. In the DGSD 96 adaptation, WYZ only loves LQS's sister. This at least shows that he is a faithful guy. But here, this guy first loves TSTL, but after she cannot be a full grown woman, he go and a marry LQS, but than got himself attached to a statue.
    Last edited by kidd; 10-07-05 at 06:19 AM.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

  9. #209
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Ah, great, thanks a lot Athena!!

    Plus Madame Ma revealed she had it off with elder Xu as well
    It always seemed that way to me. Good to confirm.

    Bai Shijing was executed by the Merits Awarding Elder
    How ironic, considering Bai Shijing himself is the Rule Execution elder. I always admired his loyalty to Xiao Feng.

    Also I NEVER once thought negatively of Abbot Xuanci. The changes really upped my admiration even more.

    Meh, doesn't really matter.

    It's surprising how much your memory distorts things anyways. I go back and read novels I read a while ago and it seems completely different even though it's physically the same book. Human memory tends to exaggerate some things, drop others and create bridges where there were none.
    Me agree.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  10. #210
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    Thanks a lot, Athena.

  11. #211
    Senior Member Athena's Avatar
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    A few corrections.....

    I misread that part about Xiao Wu Xiang Gong, it is perfectly allright to use Xiao Wu Xiang Gong to perform different martial arts of different schools.
    Jiumozhi's fire deviation was his own fault, he missed one volume of Xiao Wu Xiang Gong.
    Murong Bo gave Jiumozhi all the 72 Shaolin arts as a way to repay him for teaching him "Huo Yan Dao." If Jiumozhi could bring Murong Bo the 6 Meridian Sword Manual, Jiumozhi could copy down another 50 other martial arts manuals (of different schools, I think) in the Murong library.

    To CC: Xiao Feng saves A Zi first and is invited into the Shaolin Monastery by abbot Xuanci. And I was getting ahead of things with the heroes gathering. Sorry, for that. But there were two gatherings more or less, one was planned by Shaolin which was supposed to be held one month (?) later than the one with all the battles and such.

    To Hanky Panky: Li Qiushui's comment about leaving those manuals to kill all Xiaoyao disciples were aimed at Ding Chunqiu. As to why she didn't do it herself is left open. That is something we as readers should fill in ourselves.

    Murong Bo underestimated reverend Xuanbei and the power of the Weituo Staff, that is what the novel said. And when they came to blows because he underestimated Xuanbei he was immediately a bit overwhelmed and quickly used his Shifting North Star Technique to reflect that blow, killing reverend Xuanbei.

    Madame Ma wanted Bai Shijing to revolt against Xiao Feng, Bai Shijing refused. (Like edition 2). She then went to look for help at Quan Guanqing, she slept with him for three nights and he immediately did everything she wanted.
    But she realised that Quan Guanqing alone might not be enough, so she went to elder Xu. According to her, it was elder Xu who made a pass at her. She didn't decline and started an affair with him. In the end, Bai Shijing and Xu Chongxiao [徐沖霄] found that they shared the same lover, both wanted to kill each other. Bai Shijing struck first and killed Xu Chongxiao with a stone mace. The Beggar's Association assumed that it was Qiao Feng.
    But when Madame Ma confessed the whole thing, affair with Bai Shijing and Xu Chongxiao. The elders decided that the best thing was to keep this under their hats and let Xiao Feng remain the scapegoat for all the crimes.
    If word would get out that this s-lut was not only responsible for the death of the vice-leader of the Beggar's Association, but she started an affair with the respected elder Xu and was partly responsible for his death, on top of that she started an snowball effect that resulted in the Beggar's Association to disown on of their greatest leader in history and now the elders are executing their own Rule Execution elder. All because of this b-itch. Well, if the realm would find out about this the reputation of the Beggar's Association would be tarnished for good. So, better blame Xiao Feng a decision which Wu Changfeng hated.

    Xiao Yuanshan was still reponsible for killing the Chan Family, Zhaoqian Sunli and Granny Tan.
    I understand your question, Hank. And I don't feel overwhelmed at all. And yes, I am familiar with the term [xin mo], I just could not think of a suitable translation yesterday that is why I put the word curse between brackets. Duan Yu still saw Wang Yuyan as a sister.

    To Dugu Seeking a Win: You could be right, but again the novel stated that more than three years have passed since the start of the novel till the Shaolin Heroes Gathering. So Jiumozhi should have used three years time to learn Xiao Wu Xiang Gong.

    As for the love life of Duan Yu, nothing too interesting. The Xixia princess saw that Duan Yu was looking quite sad and offered a caring companion for him in the form of the palace maid. The 4 sword girls were a gift too, but those girls married the sons of the 3 Ministers. It was only said in the end that Mu Wanqing later on became the Imperial Consort [皇妃], Zhong Ling became Consort Xian [賢妃] and the palace maid Consort Shu [淑妃]. One of them was the mother of Duan Zhengxing (the father of Duan Zhixing/reverend Yideng), but it was unclear which one.
    As for Wang Yuyan, she could not learn the method to preserve her youth. Because the only persons who knew the skill were all dead (Tonglao, Wuya Zi and Li Qiushui). She just went back to her mad cousin.

    1. In the previous edition Xiao Feng used three times [亢龍有悔] against Ding. Now he uses three times [見龍在田], the reason for this was in the previous edition it seemed that Xiao Feng only used [亢龍有悔] when performing the 18 Dragon Subduing Palms; making it seem that Xiao Feng only knew that palm. Hence, a little variety.

    2. 游坦之待要招架,拳力已及面門,總算他勤練“易筋經”后,体內自然而然地生出反應,腦袋向后急 仰,兩個空心 斗向后翻出,這才在間不容發之際避開了這千斤一擊。
    YYJ is replaced with the yoga thing
    3. this 千斤一擊 is turned into 千鈞一擊.
    Although [鈞] is an archaic measurement unit. 1 鈞 = 30 斤. BUT used in the context [千鈞] it is ONLY a phrase meaning/describing a very dangerous/lethal situation/thing. On top of that the meaning 1 [鈞] = 30 [斤] is also annulled when one uses 鈞 in the proverb 千鈞一擊.
    If Jin Yong wanted to make Xiao Feng more powerful in this edition, he failed in my opinion. Because the fights are similiar, nothing has changed there. Jin Yong only wrote that Xiao Feng learnt the Demon-Subduing Palm (one of the 72 arts). But like you said before, that is just there to explain why Xiao Feng at the age of 31+ is that powerful. Furthermore, the comment that Xiao Feng could defeat people more powerful than himself is gone.

    他天生异稟,實是學武的奇才,受業師父玄苦大師和汪幫主武功已然甚高,蕭峰卻青出于藍,更遠遠 胜過了兩位師 父,任何一招平平無奇的招數到了他手中,自然而然發出巨大無比的威力。熟識他的人都說這等武學 天賦實是与生 俱來,非靠傳授与苦學所能獲致。蕭峰自己也說不出所以然來,只覺什么招數一學即會,一會即精, 臨敵之際,自 然而然有諸般巧妙變化。但除了武功之外,讀書、手藝等等都只平平而已,也与常人無异。他生平罕 逢敵手,許多 強敵內力比他深厚,招數比他巧妙,但一到交手,總是在最要緊的關頭,以一招半式之差而敗了下來 ,而且輸得心 服口服,自知終究無可匹敵,從來沒人再去找他尋仇雪恥。 (edition 2, chapter 24).

    This entire comment is gone now in edition 3. It is only logical, because his father doesn't show up in this chapter anymore and Xiao Feng doesn't need to chase anyone.
    So, if people say that adding Demon-Subduing Palm is +1 for Xiao. But by removing that comment it is another -1. So, in the end Xiao Feng is still as powerful as in the edition 2.

    The added scene was when Xiao Feng and A Zhu were looking for Buddhist monk Zhiguang he met 5 Xuan generation monks in disguise. Each monk took turns to exchange only 1 palm stance with Xiao Feng.


    And thanks everyone!

    A sloppy error was: Is the wife of Murong Bo (mother of Murong Fu) alive or not? When Wang Yuyan was pleading to her mother to help Murong Fu in the earlier chapters, it was said that Madame Murong had passed away.
    But in chapters covering the Shaolin melee, it was implied that Madame Murong was still alive.
    Last edited by Athena; 04-13-06 at 07:27 PM.
    So huge, so hopeless, to conceive
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    And all we need of hell.

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  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athena
    - Jiumozhi accidentally entered the Wang Manion when he was trying to capture Duan Yu again, Duan Yu escaped with A Bi and A Zhu. He overheard Ding Chunqiu and Madame Wang talking, it seems that Ding Chunqiu left the 8 volumes of Xiao Wu Xiang Gong at the Wang mansion, because he did not trust his Xingshu disciples. But Ding Chunqiu could not successfully master Xiao Wu Xiang Gong, he took one manual and left for Xingshu again. Jiumozhi stole the other 7 volumes and within three years time he had mastered Xiao Wu Xiang Gong. Although not directly implied but one of the reasons why Jiumozhi could master Xiao Wu Xiang Gong was because of his high level in Buddhist martial and his knowledge in Buddhist philosophy. (Comparable what reverend Yideng said about Taoist and Buddhist martial arts at the highest level are the same). Furthermore, Jiumzhi’s martial arts were much higher than Ding Chunqiu and Jiumozhi is also ten times more intelligent than Ding. But because Jiumozhi missed one volume, his Xiao Wu Xiang Gong is rather useless when he was facing Xuzhu.
    Hmm, I always thought that the reason Jiumozhi was able to "fake" the 72 Shaolin arts so well that he could beat anyone (not counting Sweeper) at Shaolin was because of the awesome power and flexibility of Xiao Wu Xiang Gong, was I wrong?

    In the 2nd edition, Jiumozhi could use the 72 Shaolin arts already when he wanted to have the 6MSJ from the Dali monks, but now at that time he didn't know XWXG yet, so he shouldn't be able to use them very well (if at all) and his internal strength should be noticable weaker than when he visits Shaolin, shouldn't it? Did the fight with the Dali monks remain unchanged even with a Jiumozhi who didn't have his best skill yet (lets not forget that AFAIK Jiumozhi was mentioned as having about 30 years of XWXG internal energy in the 2nd edition, and that this seemed like the reason that he was so powerfull)? Or is Jiumozhi simply a lot more talented in this edition? (fighting the 6 Dali monks with partial 6MSJ to a standstill without having trained a supreme internal energy cultivation method like XWXG for decades would be simply incredible, or perhaps his original skills were already incredibly powerfull?) Also, why didn't he kill DCQ and take the final volume of the XWXG manual if he was so much stronger and really wanted the skill? (and was close enough to listen to DCQ talk about it, so finding him shouldn't have been an issue at all)

    I also dislike the change with Wuya Zi having first been in love with Tianshan Tonglao and then falling in love with the woman that malicously injured his lover for live? What's up with that? Also, where was the teacher of those 3 during all this, I cannot imagone anyone letting one of his students deliberately make another fire deviate in such a horrible fashion and not do anything about it, TSTL and the other 2 should still have been very young when this incident happened, right?

  13. #213
    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterM
    I also dislike the change with Wuya Zi having first been in love with Tianshan Tonglao and then falling in love with the woman that malicously injured his lover for live? What's up with that? Also, where was the teacher of those 3 during all this, I cannot imagone anyone letting one of his students deliberately make another fire deviate in such a horrible fashion and not do anything about it, TSTL and the other 2 should still have been very young when this incident happened, right?
    Yes I think WYZ got even more crap in ver 3.

    Dunno about ver 3, but in 3nd ed, TSTL was already in her 20s when she fire deviated. So probably their teacher had passed away, gone away or in the finest traditions of nutty XYP saints, busy staring at pretty jade statues of a frog or some painting of a mountain.

  14. #214
    Moderator kidd's Avatar
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    It seems like JY wanted to make all his heroes more likable before he leaves this world.

    - CJL's self realisation at the end of B&S.
    - YG keeping in contact GJ and not hiding away with XLN.
    - SPT knowing for sure he only loves Ah Xiu.
    - DY getting over his obsession with the WYY and the statue.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

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    Like I everyone else, I woudl like to thank Athena for all her hard work in filling all of us in on the revisions - you work really fast

    I was just wondering if DGSD 3rd edition makes any hints of DGQB or the creator of 9 Yang?

  16. #216
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    SPT knowing for sure he only loves Ah Xiu
    This is true in the 2nd edition.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    This is true in the 2nd edition.
    Oh, I don't know about that. Athena put this as one of the noticeable changes in OTG 3rd Edition. So, I thought in 2nd edition, he must not have been so sure.

    Refer here: http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showpost...08&postcount=5

    So, u have read the 2nd edition? Haha, I thought u haven't, seeing the type of questions u asked in the 'SPT's action/reaction' thread.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

  18. #218
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    Thanks!, Athena. It is very kind of you, really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Athena
    As for the love life of Duan Yu, nothing too interesting. The Xixia princess saw that Duan Yu was looking quite sad and offered a caring companion for him in the form of the palace maid. The 4 sword girls were a gift too, but those girls married the sons of the 3 Ministers. It was only said in the end that Mu Wanqing later on became the Imperial Consort [皇妃], Zhong Ling became Consort Xian [賢妃] and the palace maid Consort Shu [淑妃]. One of them was the mother of Duan Zhengxing (the father of Duan Zhixing/reverend Yideng), but it was unclear which one.
    As for Wang Yuyan, she could not learn the method to preserve her youth. Because the only persons who knew the skill were all dead (Tonglao, Wuya Zi and Li Qiushui). She just went back to her mad cousin.
    To me, this change is interesting. It seems to me that JY purposely remove some DY's romantic story (happy ending with WYY or the love story with MWQ/ZL/palace maid) out but replacing with a depth of the story instead (the depth of DY's feeling, the way people offer help to DY, and the way DY pass thru his obsession). Therefore, the story is more subtle. For example, it is possible that the palace maid might have some talk with Xixia princess (they might be close to each other, who know) and show her interest to DY. Then the princess see DY's sadness and think it is a chance for her maid and might help DY at the same time. So she offer DY her maid, etc. It is also very interest to "read" DY's mind in his sad time...how he pass thru it and how he enlighten it (it is hard to see when he was happy).

    How far the depth go depends on how much the reader think and imagine.

    Offering girls as a gift was quite usual in the old day. They did in the old Thailand and neighbor countries too especially offering to king or prince (and this is one of the reasons why they had many wives).

    About WYZ, in my opinion, JY provide us the story. It is us who read and probably figure out what really happen with JY's hint/information. And he didn't need to provide everything. The fineness of people's feeling is indescribable. Sometimes it is beautiful to let readers figure out by themselves since, in real life, no one give us every answer. WYZ's character might not be likeable to many readers and his love story might not make a lot of sense. However, in this world, many things doesn't make sense. Again, to me, adding such love complex might give more depth of the story for me to think and practice my imagination when I have time .

    Of course, all this is just my own opinion and I could be totally wrong.

    Again, thank you very much, Athena, for your great effort!
    Last edited by Wu Xing; 10-07-05 at 02:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kidd
    It seems like JY wanted to make all his heroes more likable before he leaves this world.

    - CJL's self realisation at the end of B&S.
    - YG keeping in contact GJ and not hiding away with XLN.
    - SPT knowing for sure he only loves Ah Xiu.
    - DY getting over his obsession with the WYY and the statue.
    All except Zhang Wuji.

  20. #220
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    So, u have read the 2nd edition? Haha, I thought u haven't, seeing the type of questions u asked in the 'SPT's action/reaction' thread
    My knowledge of Chinese is very limited. I tend to focus my attention on the fight scenes; other details don't stick in my memory for long. Also the novel is really quite boring at times.

    I recently watched an adaption of Ode to Gallantry, in which Shi Potian the beggar was very clean-faced upon introduction. Shi Qing and wife clearly saw his face, but they did not recognize him. Later, SPT grew up, but the actor remained the same, and suddenly Shi Qing recognized him. So that impression threw me off quite a bit.
    Last edited by PJ; 10-07-05 at 04:07 PM.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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