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Thread: Third edition changes

  1. #241
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    Default Well

    I meant fully respected. I do have respect for everyone, but to have maximum respect from heart and mouth wise, be honest, it's really hard!

  2. #242
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    Default DGSD - Third Edition

    I was browsing around for the details of the changes that Jin Yong made to the third edition of his novels when I chanced upon this forum. I noticed that www.wuxiapedia.com also has a wealth of information, contributed by the same person, I think? Thanks a bunch to Athena and all of you for sharing. I was somewhat hesitant about buying (seeing as I already have the second editions), but after reading the information that many of you have so kindly shared, I reckon I will go ahead and place my orders.

    Quote Originally Posted by Athena
    Bai Shijing was executed by the Merits Awarding Elder, Xiao Feng stormed and quickly saved Madame Ma. Because he still needed to know who the [Big Brother] was.
    What went through the minds of the Elders when Xiao Feng came to save Kang Min? Did they think that Xiao Feng did so because he had an affair with her too? Were they even aware that the rescuer was Xiao Feng?

    Quote Originally Posted by Athena
    Wuya Zi fell in love with the jade statue, Li Qiushui started an affair with Ding Chunqiu.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athena
    Duan Yu realised that he never really loved Wang Yuyan, but loved the statue.
    Two healthy men falling in love with a statue. I truly wonder about the origins of this piece of sculpture. It seemed to possess some sort of “powers” to take control of others’ feelings and minds. I’m not clear on the details since it was ages ago when I read this story (second edition).

    Quote Originally Posted by Athena
    Abbot Xuanci…also told Xiao Feng to leave at the rear entrance of the monastery. He and the other Shaolin monks will block and/or explain to the heroes. But Xiao Feng refused this.
    Why did Xiao Feng refuse? Ah Zi was safely with her father, thus he had fulfilled his mission for coming to Shaolin. At that time, he didn’t know about his father being alive and present in Shaolin yet, did he? There was really no point for him to remain. In addition, there were numerous (thousands?) “heroes” skilled in martial arts waiting to take his life at the front entrance. Why wouldn’t he want to leave Shaolin, and via the rear entrance?

    Quote Originally Posted by Athena
    If word would get out that this s-lut was not responsible for the death of the vice-leader of the Beggar's Association, but also she started an affair with the elder Xu and was partly responsible for his death, on top of that she started an snowball effect that resulted in the Beggar's Association to disown on of their greatest leader in history and now the elders are executing their own Rule Execution elder. All because of this b-itch. Well, if the realm would find out about this the reputation of the Beggar's Association would be tarnished for good. So, better blame Xiao Feng a decision which Wu Changfeng hated.
    Yes, I can see their point (not that I concur). Since they knew that Xiao Feng was innocent of those murders, did they offer to help him, or at least try to speak up for him at the gathering of “heroes” in Shaolin, when most of the people present were all geared up to cut his throat?

    It would have been nice if some of the Elders had sought Xiao Feng out after Kang Min’s confession to let him know that they knew the truth and no longer attribute those deaths to him. And perhaps include an apology as well.
    Last edited by Dania; 10-10-05 at 06:26 PM.

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dania
    Why did Xiao Feng refuse? Ah Zi was safely with her father, thus he had fulfilled his mission for coming to Shaolin. At that time, he didn’t know about his father being alive and present in Shaolin yet, did he? There was really no point for him to remain. In addition, there were numerous (thousands?) “heroes” skilled in martial arts waiting to take his life at the front entrance. Why wouldn’t he want to leave Shaolin, and via the rear entrance?
    .
    I havent read the 3rd ed so i don't know if JY said otherwise but I am guessing that XF still thinks of himself as a Shaolin disciple and doesn't want Shaolin to be troubled by accusations of harbouring enemies and risk the gathered goons hurting Shaolin monks. He would be unable to face Xuan Ku if Shaolin came to harm due to him running away. Anyway, its not his personality to back away from confrontations.

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athena
    As for the love life of Duan Yu, nothing too interesting. The Xixia princess saw that Duan Yu was looking quite sad and offered a caring companion for him in the form of the palace maid. The 4 sword girls were a gift too, but those girls married the sons of the 3 Ministers. It was only said in the end that Mu Wanqing later on became the Imperial Consort [皇妃], Zhong Ling became Consort Xian [賢妃] and the palace maid Consort Shu [淑妃]
    Dear Athena, sorry to bug you on the "nothing too interesting" topic? May I know
    (1) why DY was looking quite sad?
    (2) whether DY know Xiao Lei before she was "offered"! [interesting word]
    (3) what was Mu Wanqing's reaction when DY told her that they are not brother/sister after all?
    (4) i am weak in my mandarin, does that mean all three ladies are concubines?

  5. #245
    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Was it stated which of the 3 girls became the official Empress of Dali?

  6. #246
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    The elders of the Beggar's Association never bothered to apologize or anything. They didn't know who saved Madame Ma.
    The general public never knew that Mu Wanqing and Zhong Ling (A Zi + A Zhu) were the daughters of Duan Zhengchun. Even most Wulin people did not know.
    It was just added at the end that Duan Yu decided to reveal to three ministers and a few others who his real father was and with that Mu Wanqing and Zhong Ling became imperial consorts. There was no further written interaction between Mu Wanqing, Zhong Ling and Duan Yu on this matter.
    So, it is left open to the readers to fill in how Mu Wanqing and Zhong Ling reacted.

    To weekj: Duan Yu sighed and said something like:"I end up meeting all my relatives, like Miss Wang, Miss Mu...."
    Duan Yu met the maid when he was in Xixia trying out to be consort of the princess.
    All of them are imperial concubines, it was not written who became the offical empress of Dali.

    Wang Yuyan felt that she aged quite quickly these days, hence she was so eager to explore immortality or preserving her youth.
    My opinion: It could be that she was imagining that she aged very quickly. But it could be a side-effect after Duan Yu accidentally absorbed her internal energy + vitality along with Jiumozhi in the well. I remember with Xixing Dafa of the Smiling Proud Wanderer that the vitality of Heibai Zi was gone as well.
    But this is just mere speculation.
    So huge, so hopeless, to conceive
    As these that twice befell
    Parting is all we know of heaven
    And all we need of hell.

    Emily Dickinson (1830-1886)

  7. #247
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    Naughty naught Duan Yu sucked the life and youth out of the poor young girl...
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

    "I disapprove of what I say, but I will defend to the death my right to say it."

  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by CC
    I havent read the 3rd ed so i don't know if JY said otherwise but I am guessing that XF still thinks of himself as a Shaolin disciple and doesn't want Shaolin to be troubled by accusations of harbouring enemies and risk the gathered goons hurting Shaolin monks. He would be unable to face Xuan Ku if Shaolin came to harm due to him running away. Anyway, its not his personality to back away from confrontations.
    Quote Originally Posted by Athena
    The elders of the Beggar's Association never bothered to apologize or anything. They didn't know who saved Madame Ma.
    Thanks, CC and Athena! DGSD seems to have undergone lots of changes in this third edition, and according to the synopsis, the most among Jin Yong's works. I enjoyed DGSD, second edition, immensely. The current revisions are interesting. I wouldn't say that they made the story better or worse, just different from the previous editions. Anyway, I like them well enough to make a purchase.

    Besides DGSD, I was deciding between LOCH and HSDS, but settled on LOCH after reading Athena's comments on the the relationship between Huang Yaoshi and Mei Chaofeng, an intriguing development of Huang Yaoshi's character in my opinion.

    There are many versions, I suppose the difference lies in the packaging. There's the New Edition, which probably refers to the third edition. Then there's the Deluxe Edition, which was released earlier (thus older?), yet more expensive than the New Edition. However, looking at the release date (Aug '03), it seems to be the third edition too. There's also the Century New Edition, which was released a month before the Deluxe Edition and slightly pricier. According to the synopsis, this is definitely the third edition.

  9. #249
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    thanks, athena. do the "few others" include zhong ling's step-father too?

    when duan yu met wyy at xixia, why did he said that wyy was his relative? he already knew that she is his "sister"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Athena
    The general public never knew that Mu Wanqing and Zhong Ling (A Zi + A Zhu) were the daughters of Duan Zhengchun. Even most Wulin people did not know.
    It was just added at the end that Duan Yu decided to reveal to three ministers and a few others who his real father was and with that Mu Wanqing and Zhong Ling became imperial consorts. There was no further written interaction between Mu Wanqing, Zhong Ling and Duan Yu on this matter.
    So, it is left open to the readers to fill in how Mu Wanqing and Zhong Ling reacted.

    To weekj: Duan Yu sighed and said something like:"I end up meeting all my relatives, like Miss Wang, Miss Mu...."

  10. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by wkeej
    thanks, athena. do the "few others" include zhong ling's step-father too?

    when duan yu met wyy at xixia, why did he said that wyy was his relative? he already knew that she is his "sister"?
    No on both accounts.
    - In fact Zhong Wanchou was never mentioned again anymore (like the previous editions).
    - Duan Yu, Xiao Feng and others met the Xixia princess later on in the novel. She was there when they went to rescue Xiao Feng (like TVB DGSD 1997) and there she gave her maid to Duan Yu. And like the previous editions the Xixia princess is still veiled, we never see her face. Don't ask me why, because I don't know either.
    Last edited by Athena; 10-13-05 at 04:31 AM.
    So huge, so hopeless, to conceive
    As these that twice befell
    Parting is all we know of heaven
    And all we need of hell.

    Emily Dickinson (1830-1886)

  11. #251
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    - Wuya Zi was first in love with Tianshan Tonglao, however when he found out that she could not become normal again (after Li Qiushui’s yell). He broke up with her and fell in love with Li Qiushui. Tonglao was distraught and hated Li Qiushui. Wuya Zi fell in love with the jade statue, Li Qiushui started an affair with Ding Chunqiu. But she never loved Ding, when Wuya Zi found out Li Qiushui and Ding Chunqiu ambushed Wuya Zi and he fell off the cliff. Li Qiushui , Ding Chunqiu and her daughter (fathered by Wuya Zi), the later Madame Wang left with the martial arts manuals. Later on, Li Qiushui grew tired of Ding and left him the Xiao Wu Xianggong manual and she left to Xixia. She also told her daughter to call Ding Chunqiu [father]. Later on, because the daughter of Li Qiushui married into the Wang family, and the Wang family were the in-laws of the Murong family. But the Murong family knew that Ding Chunqiu was somehow related to their in-laws and knew a bit of the affair between Ding and his own [Shi Mu]. As consequence, the Murong family looked a bit down upon Madame Wang and her mother and wanted nothing to do with Ding Chunqiu. However, Murong Bo remained politically polite therefore he could enter the Wang family martial arts library.
    so Wuyazi never love LQS'sister anymore , did JY completely remove LQS'sister from the 3rd edition?

    did JY explain why LQS went to Xixia?

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athena
    - Duan Yu, Xiao Feng and others met the Xixia princess later on in the novel. She was there when they went to rescue Xiao Feng (like TVB DGSD 1997) and there she gave her maid to Duan Yu. And like the previous editions the Xixia princess is still veiled, we never see her face. Don't ask me why, because I don't know either.
    Thanks, Athena. that's interesting - i think in the latest china adaption, face of xixia princess was shown.

    May I ask two related questions:
    1. when DY and others went to rescue Xiao Feng, he must already knew that WYY, Mu Wanqing and Zhong Ling are not his sisters. Do these ladies know?

    2. assuming that they do not know, Mu Wanqing + Zhong Ling must have trusted DY's sweet words? Because in the latest china adaption, everyone died except DY and Zheng Yanping.

  13. #253
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    to weekj:

    1) At that point I don't think the girls knew that they weren't brothers and sisters.

    2) Nothing like that was written in the novel.

    to shen long: That still happens. Wuya Zi is still subconsciously in love with the sister of Li Qiushui. Li Qiushui never said why she went to Xixia, she just grew tired of Ding Chunqiu and went to Xixia. No further explanation.

    Just a few more interesting things:

    - It is implied that three Xuan generation Shaolin monks are enough to reach a draw with Xiao Feng.
    - And it is implied that five are more then enough to defeat/kill him.

    Murong Bo is of the opinion that the Yiyang Finger and "Huo Yan Dao" of Jiumozhi are of the same calibre. He did add that it takes some time to generate one's internal energy to execute Yiyang finger* in contrast to "Huo Yan Dao." Jiumozhi added that this likely depends on the practitioner.
    *Murong Bo made that assessment on Yiyang Finger and "slow energy generation" based on hearsay.

    Xiao Feng learnt the Shaolin's "Demon Subduing Palm" [降魔掌] , which is one of the 72 Ultimate Arts.
    It is a soft palm style, reverend Xuanku taught Xiao Feng this skill.
    Last edited by Athena; 10-14-05 at 09:18 AM.
    So huge, so hopeless, to conceive
    As these that twice befell
    Parting is all we know of heaven
    And all we need of hell.

    Emily Dickinson (1830-1886)

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    Does learning one of the 72 Ultimate Arts make one more powerful?

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    Duh......, learning any of the Shaolin 72 master arts are strong. Learning any one of them would help one tremendously unless they have learned something that is in the catergory, but stronger. I think Demon Subdueing Palm would most likely be XF's palm technique before he learned XL18Z. But when he learned XL18Z, I guess DSP became not as useful, for XL18Z is obviously better.

  16. #256
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    The demon subduing palm is likely there to explain his inner energy base. In 2nd ed (not sure if its still in 3rd ed), it was stated that each of the 72 arts had their own inner energy training method and the potential was limitless. JY probably put it there to give a better explanation why XF had such high inner energy for his age.

    In 2nd Ed, Xuanku was a master of some 'burning palm' skill as well. Its supposed to set wood ablaze if struck. Can't remember the name. Is it still there?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CC
    In 2nd Ed, Xuanku was a master of some 'burning palm' skill as well. Its supposed to set wood ablaze if struck. Can't remember the name. Is it still there?
    That would be the "Blazing Wood Sabre Art". Using the palm to imitate a steel sabre, so that you get "T-1000" style attacks. It can set timber on fire but only...after 81 chops before ignition takes place.

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    So it seems that jin Yong wanted to make XF stronger....i guess now he is stronger than GJ then again XF ties wtih 3 XUAN monks...dunno if that is good or not

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    How strong are the three monks compared to the three elders ZWJ challeged at the end of HSDS? Xuan Ci should be considerablly stronger. But what about the other two?
    "I will punish the evil and protect the weak, superboy is in a winning streak. The sky's peak is what I seek"

  20. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by CC
    In 2nd Ed, Xuanku was a master of some 'burning palm' skill as well. Its supposed to set wood ablaze if struck. Can't remember the name. Is it still there?
    It is still there.

    To Superboy: Personally, I put the Du generation monks of HSDS and Xuan generation monks of DGSD in the same calibre.
    So huge, so hopeless, to conceive
    As these that twice befell
    Parting is all we know of heaven
    And all we need of hell.

    Emily Dickinson (1830-1886)

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