Page 14 of 21 FirstFirst ... 456789101112131415161718192021 LastLast
Results 261 to 280 of 410

Thread: Third edition changes

  1. #261
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    1,530

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Panadol
    So it seems that jin Yong wanted to make XF stronger....i guess now he is stronger than GJ then again XF ties wtih 3 XUAN monks...dunno if that is good or not
    I disagree. It makes Xiao Feng less impressive than if he only had Xiang Long Er Shi Ba Zhang and Founder's Long Fist. And it makes the Greats even more impressive because none of them learned any "Ultimate Art's".

  2. #262
    Senior Member CC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    5,058

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Chen
    I disagree. It makes Xiao Feng less impressive than if he only had Xiang Long Er Shi Ba Zhang and Founder's Long Fist. And it makes the Greats even more impressive because none of them learned any "Ultimate Art's".
    Not really. I feel that its primarily to fill the gap whereby in 1st and 2nd ed, we read that XF has shaolin inner energy but no idea which skill he got it from.

    As for the Greats and 'ultimate' arts, stuff like Yiyangzhi, Xian Tian Gong and 9 Yin are at least as good as the 72 arts.

    From DGSD to DOMD, many shaolin masters have learnt 1 or more of the 72 arts but who was even half as good as XF? (forget sweeper monk!)

  3. #263
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    1,530

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Athena
    It is still there.

    To Superboy: Personally, I put the Du generation monks of HSDS and Xuan generation monks of DGSD in the same calibre.
    Does this mean you think Xiao Feng = Zhang Wuji?

  4. #264
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    1,097

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Chen
    I disagree. It makes Xiao Feng less impressive than if he only had Xiang Long Er Shi Ba Zhang and Founder's Long Fist. And it makes the Greats even more impressive because none of them learned any "Ultimate Art's".
    Actually, it does show Xiao Feng is more impressive than in the pass. The problem with learning the all of the 72 arts is the different in styles and specialization.

    As it is impossible for H7G and HYS to learn each other martial arts due to the different styles. In which only people like GJ, ZBT, and maybe YG(not very sure to include him) are capable of learning. But even they would have problem with learning finger techniques such as Yi Yang Zhi, the Dan Zhi Shen Gong(I think that is how it spell, the one used by HYS), etc. Although GJ and YG did learn it finger technique from HYS, but they would never be able to used like HYS. Which I also think XF could not do either.

    In the past XF was only shown to use only XL18Z and rudimental martial arts, I used to believe that he is only able to learn hard style martial arts, and is unable to learn soft martial arts.

    Being able to learn these different martial arts doesn't necessary mean he is more stronger, but he is more capable than in the past. That he is also more capable than the greats excluding GJ and ZBT. It also show that his internal energy must have some level of refinement to achieve this.
    Last edited by TaiHan; 10-17-05 at 02:34 PM.

  5. #265
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    449

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TaiHan
    In the past XF was only shown to use only XL18Z and rudimental martial arts, I used to believe that he is only able to learn hard style martial arts, and is unable to learn soft martial arts.
    Knowing soft and hard styles doesn’t necessarily make you the man…you’ve got to also combine these 2 extremes together. Taoist examples such as 9 Yin theories (NOT 9 Yin neigong), Big Dipper Formation and L/R Hand Technique enabled Guo Jing to frequently interchange his hard and soft techniques between each other or even utilise them AT THE SAME TIME. Guo Jing was indeed a fine exponent of Taoist martial arts.

    Yang Guo might not have been successful if he followed Guo Jing’s shoes, but he he had his unconventional ways of learning things which helped shape him to be the fighter that he is now. E.g. When you look at his internal energy practice, it has gotten descriptions such as 「正邪為輔」(Balance of Orthodox and Heterodox Energies) that consisted of Reverse 9 Yin, Orthodox 9 Yin and Yunu Xinjing etc, etc. Only a few people have come across these fortuitous encounters to the likes of YTZ and LHC etc etc. The improvement rates of these people eclipses even the smartest of martial artists. When he was around 20 yrs of age, YG’s internal energy was not really a threat to JLFW’s. But after those 16 years of training, it was…and perhaps > his. So for those who did not understand the remarks of Yideng relating to YG’s energies not being pure and orthodox Yang, well(IMO) …this should explain it. Whether this effect is omnipotent among others, I'm not sure.

    With XF, I don’t think it was that essential to learn soft arts to accompany the firm arts. Unless by doing so, it helped him learn to mix them up just like GJ did. Otherwise in Juxian Manor, he has already proven that he could amalgamate soft and hard variations when he used a basic skill like Taizu Long Fist. From there, he unleashed the most stunning and faultless punches ever witnessed by Wulin. Not only can it be a better alternative than 7 Injuring Fists, but it’s also needless for the user to worry about any harmful side effects arising internally from it. This ‘right’ way of fighting, out of the Jueding Gaoshou category, I believe only him + GJ + ZSF can produce. And it’s been claimed by ZBT that there were limits to how far one can attain when learning from just the External School. However with the orthodox(internal + external) school of Quanzhen, the potential is unlimited. Orthodox Shaolin is no different.
    Last edited by Hanky Panky; 10-17-05 at 11:46 PM.

  6. #266
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    449

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Panadol
    So it seems that jin Yong wanted to make XF stronger....i guess now he is stronger than GJ then again XF ties wtih 3 XUAN monks...dunno if that is good or not
    Someone that I know pointed out that XF believed if he were to take on 5-6 Duan Yanqing calibre fighters at the same time, only then will he lose.

  7. #267
    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Currently DC
    Posts
    6,553

    Default

    I just want to point out/remind that Zhang Wuji, even with 9Yang and QKDNY helping him, was ONLY able to defeat Shaolin's Dragon Claws by countering with Dragon Claws.

    Whereas Xiao Feng was superior to both Xuannan and Xuanju, who were using two of the other 72 Divine Arts (Luohan Fist and the Tangutan Finger), when he was merely using the Founder's Long Fist.

  8. #268
    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    2,858

    Default

    Well, not really. ZWJ, after observing Dragon Claws for a while, was able to find its flaws because of QKDNY. It said in the narrative that it would then be easy for ZWJ to win.

  9. #269
    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Currently DC
    Posts
    6,553

    Default

    Hm, my mistake. It said that Zhang Wuji was unable to find inherent weaknesses in Dragon Claw, but that QKDNY would enable him to create them nonetheless. My bad.

  10. #270
    Senior Member CC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    5,058

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing
    Hm, my mistake. It said that Zhang Wuji was unable to find inherent weaknesses in Dragon Claw, but that QKDNY would enable him to create them nonetheless. My bad.
    I would like to think that its only ZWJ's relative inexperience at that point in time or his lack of a solid attacking skill which prevented him from using the H7G school of combat of using a straight blast down the center. His inner strength was already so much above the monk that I really don't see why he couldn't just overwhelm the monk without Qian Kun Skill.

    Just like how XZ could force JMZ back with his Tiger fist (low level technique) but if he was an experienced 6 Yang palm or Dragon Palm user, he could have just pasted JMZ there and then.

    So I am thinking ZWJ was in the same situation.

  11. #271
    Senior Member Han Solo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    5,563

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Athena
    It is still there.

    To Superboy: Personally, I put the Du generation monks of HSDS and Xuan generation monks of DGSD in the same calibre.

    Going back to Athena's original remark about the similarity of the level of the DGSD's Xuan and the HSDS's level Du level monks.

    Apart from relative comparison to their fights ala the HSDS monks vs ZWJ, and also the DGSD monks vs QF or JMZ, the individual monk in DGSD seems to have high mastery and ability to perform long distance attacks not evident in the HSDS monks.

    One example from CC's translation:
    "Jiu Mo Zhi laughed ' I have long admired Reverend Xuan Du's Nian Hua Zhi (flower massaging finger??) , I am so lucky to witness it personally' with those words, 2 fingers on his right hand started rubbing each other as if rolling flower petals. Both monk slowly raised their right hands, and in rapid succession fired off 3 shots with their fingers. There were 3 sounds of 'Bo Bo Bo' as the energy collided (this looks like Tan Zi Shen Tong without the rocks! further fuel for deterioration theory) and with a quick flash, Xuan Du's chest sprouted 3 jets of fresh blood! In the exchange, Xuan Du's skills were inferior and therefore received 3 strikes to his chest. The effect was as if 3 sharp knives had stuck him. "

    Han Solo

  12. #272
    Senior Member Athena's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Mount Olympus, sipping nectar and eating ambrosia
    Posts
    1,957

    Default

    To Han Solo:

    "When the Ming Cult trio advanced into the Diamond Taming Demon Circle, they had to stop at somewhat more than one zhang (about 3,5 meters) distance with the monks. From this distance, Yin Tianzheng launched palm strikes at Dunan, which the latter countered with Sumeru Mountain Palm. The two of them kept exchanging strokes, with Yin Tianzheng going back and forth. The distance was still 3,5 meters."

    This would show that reverend Dunan knows how to use long distance attacks too. And he is the weakest of the three Du generation monks.
    Last edited by Athena; 10-18-05 at 06:34 AM.
    So huge, so hopeless, to conceive
    As these that twice befell
    Parting is all we know of heaven
    And all we need of hell.

    Emily Dickinson (1830-1886)

  13. #273
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    1,097

    Default

    IMO, if one where to compare feats perform in each of the novels, it is better to compare in terms of when Jin Yong wrote the novel, rather than the time period that the novels take place.

    Also my opinion, but I found that the martial arts description between Y Tian Tu Long Ji and Tian Long Ba Bu are more similar when comparing Y Tian Tu Long Ji with She Diao Ying Xiong Zhuan.

    Although Jin Yong does edit his novels, but he doesn't seem to mess around much with the fighting description. Rather I think he focus more on plot.

  14. #274
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    A world of silence
    Posts
    1,416

    Default

    originally posted by ChronoReverse

    Well, not really. ZWJ, after observing Dragon Claws for a while, was able to find its flaws because of QKDNY. It said in the narrative that it would then be easy for ZWJ to win.
    it was also said that ZWJ would not have won had he not used the Dragon Caws.

    and the thing was ZWJ still used Dragon claws to defeat the monk, even when QKDNY was able to spot the flaws, as he said that without using it he would have not defeated the monk. while others might argue that he was saving Shaolin's reputation, IMO even with QKDNY ZWJ was not able to defeat the Claws himself with his present skills.

  15. #275
    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    2,858

    Default

    Eh? I'll check again later, but I'm pretty sure that only ZWJ himself said it out loud that he had to use Dragon Claws to beat Dragon Claws. And only because he wanted to save Shaolin's face.

  16. #276
    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    ( @ )( @ )
    Posts
    4,651

    Default

    After a few moves from Kong Xiang, ZWJ knew that he could kill this monk easily, but to defeat his techniques and save face for Shaolin would be nearly impossible with his shitty skills, so he had to observe Kong Xiang's moves and learn the Dragon Claws.
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

    "I disapprove of what I say, but I will defend to the death my right to say it."

  17. #277
    Senior Member Du Gu seeking a win's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    453

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CC
    Was it stated which of the 3 girls became the official Empress of Dali?

    Quote Originally Posted by Athena
    It was only said in the end that Mu Wanqing later on became the Imperial Consort [皇妃], Zhong Ling became Consort Xian [賢妃] and the palace maid Consort Shu [淑妃]

    *
    Since Duan Cheng Chun was killed in the story, Duan Yu had succeeded him on the Dali throne.
    I notice the titles of all three girls contain the character 妃 - fei, which means 'imperial concubine', so we can safely infer that NONE of the three girls became the Empress of Dali.
    That's not unusual since which empress to marry usually strictly follows 'state reasoning'.

    In the 1st edition, during the night DY was kept with MWQ in the hut, he was betrothed 'in absentia' with the daughter of the Prime Minister. In the 2nd edition that part was wiped out. I wonder if JY had put it in again (in the 3rd edition). That would have solved the 'Empress puzzle', wouldn't it?

    -

  18. #278
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    2,343

    Default

    About Athena's remark...., I just have trouble believing that one. Not saying I have evidence because the books are totally different generations, but the Shaolin elders were described with stronger internal than the Xuan generation monks in DSGS. If you say one on one, the Shaolin elders seem stronger than the Xuan. If you say they work together, then defitnitely the Shaolin elders seems stronger with there Golden Metal Attack Demon Circle.

  19. #279
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    2,343

    Default DSGS

    Btw, I came back from Vancouver today. While on my Thanksgiving vacation, I noticed one of the book stores selling the NEW 3rd EDITION of DSGS. It was expensive at $95 Canadian money which is in the 80s for American money. Yes, it came out. So any of you guys read it yet?

  20. #280
    Senior Member Du Gu seeking a win's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    453

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Whsie
    Btw, I came back from Vancouver today. While on my Thanksgiving vacation, I noticed one of the book stores selling the NEW 3rd EDITION of DSGS. It was expensive at $95 Canadian money which is in the 80s for American money. Yes, it came out. So any of you guys read it yet?

    *
    Much cheaper here:

    http://www.ylib.com/hotsale/new_jin/index.htm

Similar Threads

  1. ZWJ earlier edition or later edition
    By smurf120 in forum Wuxia Fiction
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-30-12, 08:54 PM
  2. Lu Ding Ji (new edition): speculation
    By c13:4567 in forum Wuxia Fiction
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 02-17-12, 02:47 PM
  3. What are the current edition of the books?
    By Tom in forum Wuxia Fiction
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 04-19-08, 06:24 AM
  4. HSDS Summary (Second Edition)
    By Temujin in forum Wuxia Translations
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 09-15-04, 07:58 PM
  5. new edition of Louis Cha novels
    By metwin1 in forum Wuxia Fiction
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-10-04, 04:39 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •