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Thread: Third edition changes

  1. #41
    Senior Member charbydis's Avatar
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    ABout (17), is JY going to elaborate how come HYS never did much for his own country (except at the end of ROCH)?

    After reading these changes, I still don't like HYS any better, but his disciples, especially Feng Mai Feng, grew on me. At least they have their own mind and do not blindly worship their teacher!

    However, I still like Luo Ying Shen Jian Zhang better! And Xiang Long 28 Palms just sounds weird! So is H7G still going to make up the missing parts to that or not?
    "Better to write for yourself and have no public, than to write for the public and have no self."
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  2. #42
    Senior Member superboy's Avatar
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    I guess HL18Z is the last and improved version of HL28Z.
    "I will punish the evil and protect the weak, superboy is in a winning streak. The sky's peak is what I seek"

  3. #43
    Senior Member Gunner's Avatar
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    Well, HYS wouldn't have much reason to help his country directly. The govt executed his grandfather, were responsible for killing Yue Fei whom he seems to idolise (most of the characters do anyway) and he refused to take part in the provincial exams. But he's no traitor, thus i think that's why he ended up living in seclusion on an island.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Athena's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Third Edition of ROCH

    After reading the third revised version and having had several, lengthy e-mail discussions with my good friend.
    I decided to jot down some of my thoughts and changes I have noticed in the third edition.

    - Yang Guo doesn't go to the Peach Blossom Isle, when his mother died. His mother had instructed him to do so, but he was a proud little boy and did not want to be dependent on someone so he decided he could survive on his own.

    - The Quanzhen disciple raping Xiao Longnu is called Zhen Zhibing, Taoist name Chonghe. He is the third disciple of Qiu Chuji. Yin Zhiping only has a minor role in the novel now, it is said that Yin Zhiping had placed emphasis on Taoist cultivation over martial arts hence Zhen Zhibing has caught up with him in martial arts.

    - Zhao Zhijing had a chance in becoming the head disciple of the third generation. But he failed miserably when the 6 masters gave him 2 tasks to perform. One leading the Big Dipper Formation to keep Huo Du and his minions away; instead he lead it against Guo Jing. Leaving the Chongyang Shrine open for the real enemy. And Qiu Chuji and Wang Chuji were furious when they heard how Zhao Zhijing treated Yang Guo. They then decided that Zhen Zhibing should become the possible head disciple of the third generation. Zhao Zhijing being the fool he is blames Yang Guo for this. (Instead of his own incompetence).

    - Some more insights on Wang Chongyang and Lin Chaoying and Jade Maiden martial arts. The Jade Maiden martial arts are not really designed for killing or wounding, Lin Chaoying created her style for the purpose of overcoming Wang Chongyang. (i.e. a simple pat on his body showing off her superiority in martial arts over her, however she could overcome his martial arts style but actually patting Wang on his body was impossible.) Secondly Lin Chaoying used her martial arts to express her feeling for Wang Chongyang, instead of just saying it. The reason why they did not end up with each other was because they simply did not understand each other's ambitions, wishes.....(sigh*).

    -Wang Chongyang carved only the small portions of Jiuyin in the tomb, minus Sanskrit part (which is now confirmed). But he did managed to GRASP the essence and ABSORB the essense of Jiuyin after reading it a few times.

    - Yang Guo and Xiao Longnu's relationship in the tomb is much warmer and more loving.....

    - Zhen Zhibing would often of to the woods outside the tomb and softly call out:"Xiao Longnu.....Xiao Longnu....."
    Zhao zhijing found this out because he sent his pupils to spy near the woods. If they saw Yang Guo they would have to report to him immediately, however they did not see Yang Guo but did hear Zhen Zhibing. Also when Xiao Longnu turned 20, Zhen Zhibing left a small box of delicasies near the woods and a note saying he wishes her a happy birthday. But this box was intercepted by the pupil of Zhao Zhijing.

    - Li Mochou's palm technique is not called 5 Poison Divine Palms but it is called Chilian (*as in her nickname) Divine palms.

    - Hong Qigong and Ouyang Feng's deaths are also a bit changed, the once scene filled with lofty sentiments is gone now. Instead we get some more insight on the Jiuyin martial arts theories.

    - Jinlun Fawang is now called Jinlun Guoshi (Imperial High Priest). The term "fawang" is gone. The reason is that a small group of people were making a lot fuss, saying that it was typical that Tibetan monks were portrayed as bad. Jin Yong always had left left ideas, etc....Well just to appease those people he changed it, Jinlun is a Mongolian monk who studied Lamaism in Tibet. Lamaism became the main religion in Mongolia.

    - Huo Du is not the descendant of Genghis Khan but of the sworn brother of Genghis Khan who died in LOCH (Jamuqa). Anyway, his family always were insured of a wealthy life, but with no power for obvious reasons. Huo Du also wanted power and became the student of Jinlun, hoping that he would acquire power via his teacher. Not many people knew of his heritage, not even Kublai Kai was aware till he revealed it himself.

    - Yang Guo and Guo Jing in the Mongolian camp: Yang Guo faked an internal injury. Guo Jing carried him on his back, Yang Guo asked Guo Jing whether his father was an evil man. Guo Jing replied as the same in previous edition.
    At that moment, he was confused. Yang Guo was child who longed for love----> love from a father. And in his heart Guo Jing was that father, who could risk his life for him, protect him no matter what. And only had high hopes of him? At that moment he was confronted with that thought and his love for Guo Jing. Yang Guo was not even sure if his real father would love him half as much as Guo Jing did, if he was alive. Just because one is supposed to avenge one's father, could he really kill the man who is as closed to him as any father could be?

    - Guo Jing was still injured because of Yang Guo, nonetheless. Because Yang Guo was faking an injury, Guo Jing carried him on his back. Therefore Xiaoxiang Zi attacked Yang Guo, but Yang could not defend himself. Guo Jing had to take care of Yang Guo as result injured.

    - Guo Xiang did become the pupil of Jinlun, she agreed because she sort of lead him on. Hoping she would have a chance to escape from him. Jinlun loved Guo Xiang as a daughter and in the end died saving her from the buring platform.

    There are some other changes too, but I will leave it for you to read. Or when I have time to add another post. Overall I simply love the changes Jin Yong made.
    Last edited by Athena; 08-19-07 at 08:21 PM.
    So huge, so hopeless, to conceive
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  5. #45
    Moderator Noodles's Avatar
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    So these are the changes. Doesn't sound too bad. Need to get myself a copy asap to see for myself. Thx Athena.
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  6. #46
    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    Thanks a lot Athena for the info. Sounds like good changes but..... please, Master Jin Yong, don't make me like YG and XLN in this new edition !!!
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

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  7. #47
    Senior Member Temujin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Third Edition of ROCH

    Originally posted by Athena

    - Guo Xiang did become the pupil of Jinlun, she agreed because she sort of lead him on. Hoping she would have a chance to escape from him. Jinlun loved Guo Xiang as a daughter and in the end died saving her from the buring platform.

    Okay... so what does this mean ?

    Don't tell me Jin Yong has completely eliminated the last fight between Yang Guo and GWM. So, now GWM is the one who saved Guo Xiang from the burning platform at the end.

    So what happened to the last big fight ?

  8. #48
    Senior Member Athena's Avatar
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    I think I will add a few more things:

    - The final confrontation still takes place between Yang Guo and Jinlun Guoshi. However when Yang Guo injured Jinlun and the platform was starting to collapse. Jinlun refound his benevolence and saved his pupil. He was never too keen on the idea of using Guo Xiang as bait to lure Guo Jing over.
    He even argued with Kublai Kai about this and Kublai Khai apologized to him. But when the Khan issued the imperial edict to use Guo Xiang Jinlun had to obey, because if he defied those orders the consequences could affect all followers of Lamaism in the Mongolian empire.

    - Guo Xiang learnt a few things from Jinlun martial arts + tibetan buddhist philosophies. Jinlun was most pleased to see her being even more intelligent than his late head student.

    - Guo Xiang had a naive thought about; if she was born 20 years earlier. She would become Da Longnu and live nearby Mount Zhongnan too and take care of the bullied Yang Guo. It was a very sweet and naive thought.....

    - The next leader of Quanzhen was Song Dao'an. An actual Quanzhen Taoist priest, because Li Zhichang was only his second in command of Song Dao'an.

    - Li Mochou revealing a bit about her last conversation with Lu Zhanyuan. According to her (honestly I don't find her a very reliable source), Lu Zhanyuan said many sweet things to her. But when they parted for 4 months, and saw each other again. He was an entire different person, he was cold and civil against her. When she asked why, Lu Zhanyuan answered:"Miss Li, we're just normal friends in the realm of martial arts. And I really appreciate and am thankful for the affection and care you've shown in the past. I will repay you for that for some day. Next month I am getting married in Dali with Miss He, if you have the time I would welcome to join the wedding banquet."
    Li Mochou became furious and coughed up blood and fainted. Lu Zhanyuan revived her and helped her to an inn and left. When she told this story to Xiao Longnu, Li Mochou managed to portray Lu Zhanyuan as an heartless, ingrate. Which showed that she must have played this particular scene over and over again in her head for the past 10 odd years.

    - The Five Masters of Quanzhen went into retreat to create a skill to put Quanzhen back on its' feet. It was not only for the purpose of defeating the Ancient Tomb School anymore.

    If anyone has anymore queries about the third edition do not hesitate to send me a private message. I am hardly active on the forum nowadays and I am too tired to participate in the wuxia discussions in spite of some interesting threads that are going on.
    I will continue with the The Legendary Siblings translation albeit which is going awfully slow at the moment.
    So huge, so hopeless, to conceive
    As these that twice befell
    Parting is all we know of heaven
    And all we need of hell.

    Emily Dickinson (1830-1886)

  9. #49
    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    He changed the fight between OYF and H7G?! I loved that part!

  10. #50
    Senior Member Athena's Avatar
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    That fight is still included (fight between Ouyang and Hong). But after Ouyang Feng came up with that stance to counter the final technique of the dog beating cane/stick....whatever. Ouyang Feng and Hong Qigong competed with internal energy one more time (or what was left of their internal strengths at that time). And then there was another small passage about Jiuyin---followed by an embrace-----> death.
    So huge, so hopeless, to conceive
    As these that twice befell
    Parting is all we know of heaven
    And all we need of hell.

    Emily Dickinson (1830-1886)

  11. #51
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    The most significant and interesting change to me so far is the modification made to the Golden Wheel Monk (and I don't mean his name). Whereas before, he was simply a low-life villain whose entire purpose in ROCH was simply to make life miserable for the heroes, now he's a somewhat more sympathetic character along the lines of what West Poison Au Yeung Fung became at the end of LOCH and during the first part of ROCH.

  12. #52
    Senior Member rabadi's Avatar
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    Does the new version solve the never-ending debate on who is better between GJ and YG?
    Guo Jing > Yang Guo. Book it, you morons!

  13. #53
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Originally posted by rabadi
    Does the new version solve the never-ending debate on who is better between GJ and YG?
    We wish.

  14. #54
    Senior Member charbydis's Avatar
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    So is it Yin Zhi Ping or Zhen Zhi Bing that dies when the Mongolians attack the Quan Zhen headquarters? Is Yin Zhi Ping just an extra in ROCH now that Zhen Zhi Bing has come out?

    I still think Jin Lun Fa Wang sounds better than Jin Lun Gao Shi, and I have always liked him so the changes make me happy. Does he and Yang Guo still fight at the end with their new stances?
    "Better to write for yourself and have no public, than to write for the public and have no self."
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  15. #55
    Senior Member superboy's Avatar
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    Originally posted by rabadi
    Does the new version solve the never-ending debate on who is better between GJ and YG?
    He probably won't include it cause he doesn't want to disappoint the YG fans.
    "I will punish the evil and protect the weak, superboy is in a winning streak. The sky's peak is what I seek"

  16. #56
    Senior Member Temujin's Avatar
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    Originally posted by rabadi
    Does the new version solve the never-ending debate on who is better between GJ and YG?
    There's no way he's going to do that, because that's what's keeping all fans reading the novel over and over again and argue about who's the better fighter between the two.

  17. #57
    Senior Member Thai guy's Avatar
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    I would imagine that he should extend ROCH up until the period when GJ and HR died.

  18. #58
    Senior Member Ardor's Avatar
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    any changes to the DGQB and Divine condor parts?
    Burying his Dugu 9 Jian manual under an epitaph, Dugu Qiubai felt he has left his legacy for the next generation. He then moved to Shaolin to study Buddhism, sweep floors and tap elite fighters.

  19. #59
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    So did XLN still get rape in the third edition? I heard that JY might change it.

  20. #60
    Senior Member superboy's Avatar
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    Athena just said JY changed the name of the guy that.....XLN.
    "I will punish the evil and protect the weak, superboy is in a winning streak. The sky's peak is what I seek"

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