Did Gwok Jing at the end of LOCH occupy a unique level of martial arts?

[Ken Cheng]

Why do people always think that Qiu Qianren is weaker than the other Greats?

TV adaptations. They've never been very fair to Kau Cheen Yan. He always looks tough on TV until he has to fight one of the Greats, and then somehow he gets reduced to a chump. If Kau Cheen Yan were a real person living in today's world, he'd probably sue the TV producers for libel and slander.

[superboy]

yeah, i wonder y that happens to all the adaptations. LOCH 82, ROCH 94, LOCH 2002 mainland. Why is that?

[TaiHan]

I remember in LOCH 82, OYF took QQR out less than a 1 min and without using his Toad Stance and Snake poison. and QQR was running for his life.

OYF was saying something like "I must took him out, he will be tought competitor at the 2nd hua shan tournament"
I thinking what an idiot, if you can take him out without requiring your best skill, what is so threatening about him.

[CC]

TV adaptations. They've never been very fair to Kau Cheen Yan. He always looks tough on TV until he has to fight one of the Greats, and then somehow he gets reduced to a chump. If Kau Cheen Yan were a real person living in today's world, he'd probably sue the TV producers for libel and slander.

Plus he never got a 'directional title'. You know, the West Baddie, East Crazy type title. Makes it sound a lot less impressive.

Sure he got the Tie Zhang Shui Shang Piao, but its not the same as the 'directional title'.

[Dennis Chen]

Additionally, "Iron Palms Floating Above the Water" doesn't exactly inspire fear or respect.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Well, to me, it's because of in his fights with Guo Jing, Guo Jing always seemed to be able to give him a run for his money, whereas Guo Jing really wasn't able to vs the other Greats.

Also, his cross-country marathon fleeing from Zhou Botong wasn't exactly awe-inspiring either

In ROCH, Yang Guo never showed a clear advantage over Huang Yaoshi or Zhou Botong in their little duels, but handily took care of QQR with his Xuantie Jianfa.

Also, QQR lost in ROCH to JLFW, if I recall correctly, and JLFW didn't seem to be superior to the Greats in ROCH either.

[Dennis Chen]

JLGS had the advantage of age. Huang Rong was sure that Yideng would be no match for JLGS because Yideng was old.

[PJ]

JLGS had the advantage of age. Huang Rong was sure that Yideng would be no match for JLGS because Yideng was old.

no match seems too bold an observation, if I remember correctly. Yideng might lose out after thousands of stances, but he is going up against one of the most patheticly confident-lacking fighters in the Jin Yong universe, so some bonus points should be given to Yideng in this situation.

[shen long]

Why do people always think that Qiu Qianren is weaker than the other Greats?

Zhou Botong reached a draw with him in the beginning. It was after Zhou used his dual hands technique, he gained the advantage on Qiu Qianren. However when competing in lightness martial arts he was certainly superior to Zhou Botong. I mean Huang Yaoshi, Ouyang Feng and Zhou Botong had a little match of lightness martial arts near the city of Linan, it was Zhou Botong at the head and Huang and Ouyang closely behind him. I see that as Zhou Botong being just a bit better in that field than East Heretic and West Venom. However Qiu Qianren outran Zhou Botong, meaning he should better than Ouyang and Huang Yaoshi in that particular martial arts skill. That is just my mere speculation, however it was a fact that South Emperor's art of lightness martial arts was not as good as Qiu. See Roch Chapter 30.
According to the novel: Technique wise Qiu Qianren is as good as the other four. When it came to being fierce and impressive the Iron Palms could not match up with the 18 Dragon Subdueing Palms. However the techniques of the Iron Palms were more refined and ingenious than the 18 Dragon Subdueing Palms. See chapter 32 of LOCH.
Also it was mentioned in ROCH chapter 30 (third edition), that South Emperor MIGHT BE ABLE to defeat Qiu Qianren after a long fight in which he used the combination Yiyang Finger and Xiantian Gong.
By these examples I find Qiu Qianren to be very qualified to be a martial arts experts in the level of the Greats.
In chapter 28 Guo Jing felt that Qiu Qianren was on par with Ouyang Feng in LOCH.
In chapter 39 commented that Qiu Qianren's martial arts are definetely not inferior to his teacher Hong Qigong.
Guo Jing had several encounters, fights, battles with several of the remaining Greats + Zhou Botong. Two of the remaining four taught/instructed him in martial arts, Zhou Botong too had taught him some abilities.
Guo Jing was perfectly capable of making such an assessment. Why would we doubt his opinion on this, I mean if he felt that Qiu Qianren was on par with Hong Qigong and Ouyang Feng wouldn't that make Qiu Qianren's martial arts of the same level as the other Greats.

not quite the same he is mortally wounded by GLFW at the end of ROCH and he cant beat ZBT in LOCH and had to run around the country lol.His lightness kung fu is impressive but I dun think it beats ancient sect ,XLN only lose out as she have less internal energy. Anyway his internal energy is not as abundance as the greats since YG and Yideng catch up with him later when he lose steam.

[Athena]

He was mortally wounded after fighting the Golden Wheel Monk for an entire day (24 hours).
Nowhere in the novel was it stated that Yang Guo, reverend Yideng had more abundant internal energy than Ci'en.
They caught up with him, because he ran like crazy non-stop. And exhausted himself, while Yang Guo and Yideng took their time and were travelling more wisely.
The trouble with Qiu Qianren is that he lacked confidence and a real warrior's mentality. Ability wise he is a Great, but mentality, personality wise he is inferior.

[Ken Cheng]

The trouble with Qiu Qianren is that he lacked confidence and a real warrior's mentality. Ability wise he is a Great, but mentality, personality wise he is inferior.

Didn't the Golden Wheel Monk have the exact same problem?

[yittz]

GLFW lacked confidence?

He's more cautious and calculating than lacking confidence.

What do you mean mentally and personality-wise not a great?

[i_fotted]

QQR seemed really weak in the series LOCH. ZBT and OYF took him out effortlessly it seems, so I say he is no where near the level of the greats. OYF wanted to take care of QQR before the tournament so he can save his energy to fight the other greats.

[kyss of the sword]

QQR was a great level, he was described as an unstoppable fighter in his day. he might have been the sixth expert if he fought at the hua tournement with the rest. guo jing couldn't beat him till the very end of loch and even then, he had yideng, hongqigong, ZBT and haung rong backing him up. QQR never lost to anyone but ZBT and that wasn't a conclusive battle. he lost in moves and then went a little beserk and ZBT got scared off. his defeat by YG was his first complete defeat till GLFW at the end of roch (and at that time, it took three experts to defeat GLFW).

[superboy]

QQR was a great level, he was described as an unstoppable fighter in his day. he might have been the sixth expert if he fought at the hua tournement with the rest. guo jing couldn't beat him till the very end of loch and even then, he had yideng, hongqigong, ZBT and haung rong backing him up. QQR never lost to anyone but ZBT and that wasn't a conclusive battle. he lost in moves and then went a little beserk and ZBT got scared off. his defeat by YG was his first complete defeat till GLFW at the end of roch (and at that time, it took three experts to defeat GLFW).

Yeah, I consider QQR to be around 90-95% of a Great. Though I have to disagree on how it too three expert to beat GLFW. Two ganging up on him well be more then enough actually.

[Ken Cheng]

Yeah, I consider QQR to be around 90-95% of a Great. Though I have to disagree on how it too three expert to beat GLFW. Two ganging up on him well be more then enough actually.

Yeah. The 1995 ROCH series and that color comic by Tony Wong are notorious for really misrepresenting the extent of the Golden Wheel Monk's abilities here. It wasn't as if the Golden Wheel Monk were beating the holy hell out of Chow Bak Tung. Chow Bak Tung was fighting the Golden Wheel Monk on more or less equal terms. When the Golden Wheel Monk saw that 1 Deng was coming too, he knew he was badly overmatched and tried to run, only to find Wong Yerk See blocking his way. Surrounded by three Greats, the Golden Wheel Monk knew he was screwed BIG TIME, and wisely sat down and surrendered.