XF and ZWJ in terms of internal force

[TaiHan]

How much training did Zhang Wuji have? He was taught a bit by his Godfather, a little bit by his Dad and that's it, I believe.

his godfather basically taught philosophical martial art which are mainly theories, with no actual move or technique. His 9 Yang is also the same way; its only contain theories without techniques.
I guess I could say on Ming Peak he was using "No Stance" to overcome "Stance," except for when he was fighting against Kong Sheng.

[Black Night Sea]

Yep. He had the force for a palm strike but was short of a suitable form to accompany with the force. That’s why FY’s bones can only be broken and the piles of rocks could just disperse outwards.

About the topic, I think it’s silly to compare XF to ZWJ in terms of their internal forces. As ZWJ is not only stuffed with countless vigour, his energy also strengthens in every battle he comes across. This was all down to his practice of Taichi Qigong.

If people want to see XF in similar scenarios to others, in which their respective internal energies can be more specifically compared, here’s one I can think of:

ROCH Chapter 20:

Guo Jing stood at the top of the wall with a commanding aura around him and shouted out, “The commander of the Mongols, listen: years ago the Mongols and Hans worked together to rid the Jins, why are you Mongols now invading over to our borders and killing our citizens? We have over ten times more citizens as you Mongols have, if you don’t quickly retreat then we’ll gather our armies and kill over hundred thousand soldiers that you have, not even leaving them with a body that can be buried.” He spoke in Mongolian with great vigour. Though the wall was high and there was a large distance between the two armies, but several thousand Mongolian soldiers could hear every single word clearly and they couldn’t stop themselves from looking at each other pale faced.

DGSD Chapter 50:

He (Xiao Feng) raised both of his arms straight above his head, signalling that he did not carry weapons or bow and arrows with him. Then he yelled out loudly, "Your Majesty of the Great Liao, Xiao Feng would like to have a few words with you. May I ask for you to step out in front for me." The moment he spoke of those words he summoned up his internal energy, as he transmitted his voice far outwards. Among over hundred thousand Liao soldiers including the military officers, not one of them did not hear his voice as clear as crystal. Involuntarily, everyone’s faces changed colour.

Obviously in ROCH, this was 16 years before the GJ that appeared towards the end of the novel. But anyone who’s unconvinced that Xiao Feng’s internal energy is at least comparable with ROCH’s 5 Greats, should also take into account of the distractions that could possibly drown out his passed-on communication such as the beating of the drums, the galloping of horse’s hooves, the chinking from armours and the whirring sounds of the flags blown by the wind. Whereas for GJ, it was more or less quiet after the fight had stopped.

[Laviathan]

ROCH Guo Jing:

郭靖站在城头，神威凛然，喝道：“蒙古主帅听着：大宋与蒙古昔年同心结盟，
合力灭金，你蒙古何以来犯我疆界，害我百姓？大宋百姓人数多你蒙古数十倍，若
不急速退兵，我大宋义兵四集，管教你这十多万蒙古军死无葬身之地。”他这几句
话说的是蒙古语，中气充沛，一字一句送向城下。城墙既高，两军相距又远，但这
几句话数万蒙古兵将却俱都听得清清楚楚，不由得相顾失色。

Tens of thousands of soldiers... (which could vary from 20.000 to 90.000)

DGSD Xiao Feng:

萧峰朗声道：“众位请各在原地稍候，不可移动，待在下与辽帝分说。”不等
段誉、阿紫等劝止，已单骑纵马而出。他双手高举过顶，示意手中并无兵刃弓箭，
大声叫道：“大辽国皇帝陛下，萧峰有几句话跟你说，请你出来。”说这几句话时，
鼓足了内力，声音远远传了出去。辽军十余万将士没一个不听得清清楚楚，不由得
人人变色。

Over one hundred thousand soldiers...

[PJ]

anyone who’s unconvinced that Xiao Feng’s internal energy is at least comparable with ROCH’s 5 Greats

Which no one should doubt.

[kyss of the sword]

Thus with "Lan Qiao Wei", Tai Ji Quan was used for the first time since it was created, to fight an opponent. WuJi already had Jiu Yang Shen Gong and mastered Qian Kun Da Nuo Yi which could disperse the opponent's attack, so with just one move from Tai Ji Quan with the pulling technique, Yimen Shu's strike could be broken easily. The strike that carried a force of more than a thousand catties had disappeared without a trace as if a pebble falling into the ocean. And not only that, Yimen Shu's body was also pulled two steps forward by his own force

this is the extract from http//:www.zhaomin.org/forums
it was yimen shu who used the shaolin golden fingers to injure the wudang second and seventh heros.

[kyss of the sword]

At that moment, suddenly the bald A Er jumped forward and his right palm launched an attack towards WuJi's chest, without saying a word. Before his palm arrived, WuJi already felt a huge force pressing on his chest and slightly hindering his breathing. He quickly used "Xie Fei Shi" (Flying in a Slanting Style), to divert the powerful palm strike. The bald old man attacked again without saying a word, his footing was very firm as if nailed to the floor, his palm strike was wholly concentrated, and his Internal Energy was truly very powerful.

WuJi saw that the style of this bald old man's palm strike was of the same style with Yimen Shu's. Considering their age, he must be Yimen Shu's elder martial brother. In terms of martial arts and agility, this old man was not as good as Yimen Shu, but in term of Internal Strength and stability, he was much stronger. WuJi tried to use Tai Ji Quan's four styles of "nian" (stick/attach), "yin" (pull), "ji" (push) and "an" (restrain) with the intention of dragging the old man towards himself but unexpectedly this man's Internal Energy was just too powerful and WuJi found himself getting pulled away one step towards the old man instead. WuJi's spirit rose up and he thought: "Let me try you, to see whether your Shaolin Pai's Internal Energy is stronger or my Jiu Yang Shen Gong is stronger."

And when he saw A Er's palm came attacking again, he also striked using his own palm, to meet hard force with hard force, slightly below his real strength, and soon a loud sound "Pang!" was heard, the two persons'bodies swayed a bit at the same time. Zhang SanFeng gave a startled "Oh!" sound, thinking: "This is not good! Fighting in this manner, whoever uses the stronger force will win, this is totally the opposite of Tai Ji Quan's palm strike principle. This old man's Internal Energy is really huge, very rare to be found in Wu Lin. I'm afraid in the previous palm match, the child already suffers internal injury because of it." At this moment, A Er already attacked again using his palm, and again the two palms met for the second time, a loud sound "Pang!" was heard, A Er's body swayed and staggered one step back, but on the other hand, WuJi's body kept still and he didn't move even a bit from his original spot.

this bald ah da had even high inner power then the ffirst.

A Er raised both his arms and striked, and a huge force that can shake the mountain and ocean came rushing forward. WuJi took a deep breath, and circulated the pure energy in his body, then he also raised both his palms, the right palm pushed, while the other palm welcomed, returning hard force with hard force too. The two enormous forces met and A Er screamed once, and like a big rock bullet being catapulted by a rock-throwing machine, his body was thrown back and hit against the wall, "BLANG!", the wall broke in a noisy rumble, creating a hole and A Er's body continued to shoot outside through the hole!

wuji did not turn the ah da's power against himself but used his 9yang power.

[ChronoReverse]

It's not like we're arguing that XF's weaker, the argument is that the Greats were of a similar level.


Furthermore, that illustration isn't quite good. One has XF in the middle and the other has GJ high on the wall and far away.

Considering how vague the numbers are, it's likely JY intended them to be pretty much the same ability (he even had the reaction of the soldiers the same lol)

[superboy]

this is the extract from http//:www.zhaomin.org/forums
it was yimen shu who used the shaolin golden fingers to injure the wudang second and seventh heros.

This extract cannot be used becasue it's from the first edition. Things had changed after in the 2nd.

[SolidSnake]

... should also take into account of the distractions that could possibly drown out his passed-on communication such as the beating of the drums, the galloping of horse’s hooves, the chinking from armours and the whirring sounds of the flags blown by the wind. Whereas for GJ, it was more or less quiet after the fight had stopped.

I'm afraid this does not prove who's stronger. One could easily said GJ shouted with all his power while XF were only casually barking, or vice versa. We wouldn't know.

Obviously in ROCH, this was 16 years before the GJ that appeared towards the end of the novel. But anyone who’s unconvinced that Xiao Feng’s internal energy is at least comparable with ROCH’s 5 Greats...

Agree that XF is about the equal of all the Greats arguably with the exception GJ.

[Laviathan]

Obviously in ROCH, this was 16 years before the GJ that appeared towards the end of the novel. But anyone who’s unconvinced that Xiao Feng’s internal energy is at least comparable with ROCH’s 5 Greats, should also take into account of the distractions that could possibly drown out his passed-on communication such as the beating of the drums, the galloping of horse’s hooves, the chinking from armours and the whirring sounds of the flags blown by the wind. Whereas for GJ, it was more or less quiet after the fight had stopped.

Yes, but if we look at the end of ROCH:

Chapter 39: 黄药师... 这时以丹田之气朗声说了出来，
虽在千万人大呼酣战之际，仍是人人听得明白，

Huang Yaoshi... now raised the energy from his Dantian and spoke out loudly, and even in the midst of the battle cries and fierce fighting of hundreds of thousands people, still everyone heard his words clearly.

Please note that Golden Wheel Monk and Huang Yaoshi alone led 50.000 troops each, not counting the troops led by Mongke Khan and his generals, and the defence forces of Xiangyang.

[Du Gu seeking a win]

this is the extract from http//:www.zhaomin.org/forums
it was yimen shu who used the shaolin golden fingers to injure the wudang second and seventh heros.

*
jin = gold
jin gang= diamond, hard metal

金 刚 指
So, 'jin gang zhi' should be translated into 'Diamond Finger'

And imo it was the third and sixth hero who were crippled.

[TaiHan]

This extract cannot be used becasue it's from the first edition. Things had changed after in the 2nd.

Okay, I can't read chinese, but I read the 2nd edition in another language, viet. And Ah 3's strike did possess 1,000 catties. But in case, if something is wrong with the translation, here is the chinese text from qiqi.com and babel fish translation

张无忌自听张三丰演说“太极拳”之后，一个多时辰中，始终在默想这套拳术的拳理，
眼见阿三左拳击到，当即使出太极拳中一招“揽雀尾”，右脚实，左脚虚，运起“挤”字
诀，粘连粘随，右掌已搭住他左腕，横劲发出。阿三身不由主的向前一冲，跨出两步，方始
站定。旁观众人见此情景，齐声惊噫。这一招“揽雀尾”，乃天地间自有太极拳以来首次和
人过招动手。张无忌身具九阳神功，精擅乾坤大挪移之术，突然使出太极拳中的“粘”法，
虽然所学还不到两个时辰，却已如毕生研习一般。阿三给他这么一挤，自己这一拳中千百斤
的力气犹似打入了汪洋大海，无影无踪，无声无息，身子却被自己的拳力带得斜移两步。他
一惊之下，怒气填膺，快拳连攻，臂影晃动，便似有数十条手臂、数十个拳头同时击出一
般。众人见了他这等狂风骤雨般的攻势，尽皆心惊：“无怪以空性大师这等高强的武功，也
丧身于他手下。”除了赵敏携来的众人之外，无不为张无忌担心。

altavista- translating machine

Open shamelessly since listens open three abundant speeches "the Taijiquan", in more than time, throughout in meditates this set of skill at martial arts the fist principle, sees with own eyes 阿三 the left boxing, when even if in the Taijiquan a move "embraces 雀 the tail", 右脚 is solid, left leg empty, transports "crowds" the character knack, the adhesion sticks along with, the right palm has built his left wrist, 横劲 sends out. The Arab League three embodiments of buddha by main to preceding does not flush, steps two steps, the side beginning stands firm. Side the audience people see this scene, with one voice startled 噫. This move "embraces 雀 the tail", since has been between the world the innate Taijiquan has begun for the first time with the person move. Open the shameless body to have nine positive marvelous abilities, the essence does without authorization the universe greatly to move moves the technique, suddenly causes in the Taijiquan "to stick" the law, although studies also two time, like the lifetime thorough study has been actually ordinary. 阿三 such as soon as crowds for him, in own this fist 1,100 catties strengths still resembled have infiltrated the vast ocean, without a trace, silent, the body actually is brought by own fist strength slanting to move two step. He one startled under, the anger fills in the breast, the quick fist company attacks, the arm shade rocks, then there seems to was dozens of arms, dozens of fists simultaneously eject general. The numerous people saw his this and so on the violent storm offensive, completely all heart startled: "No wonder that by the spatial master this and so on Wugong which excels in, also lost life to him under." Numerous people sensitively brings which besides Zhao, all for open the shameless worry.

if the translation is wrong, please someone correct it.

[Athena]

You're correct. But it would not be surprising if A San had the same physical strength as Xiao Feng. But at martial arts level, Xiao Feng should be very much superior to him.

[Candide]

In terms of physical strength, Ao Bai would probably whip 2 XFs.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Agreed. Ao Bai is probably the most grotesquely physically powerful fighter in JY's novels. Other people are built like bulls; this guy kills them with one punch. Pure physical might.

[PJ]

OK, so Ah San's example indicates we can't compare martial arts levels based on strength in the punch. So let me scratch the comparison of "Xiao Feng hits 1000 jin, Mr. Golden Wheel hits 1000 jin, therefore they are roughly equal."

Thanks.

[Candide]

The 1000 jin expression is just a metaphor as to say that the punch is extremely powerful. Be careful when you read about 1000 something or 10,000 something (nice rounded numbers), as they should not be taken literally.

[PJ]

The 1000 jin expression is just a metaphor as to say that the punch is extremely powerful. Be careful when you read about 1000 something or 10,000 something (nice rounded numbers), as they should not be taken literally.

Si, senor.