Sweeper vs. Dugu Qiu Bai

[Candide]

Yeah, XF's Dragon Palms was so good GJ made refinements to it.

You call it making refinements, I call it adding his own personalities to it. It's only natural for GJ to use the Dragon Palms it that way, with the inner power base he had.

[yittz]

Can't see how you can compare the two fighters when we have never seen Dugu fight before. Like Ken said, Dugu could be anything between the wide range.

If Dugu is < 3xYG (and possibly more), he would be swatted by the monk.

[superboy]

Yeah. But since Dugu himself couldn't teach YG anymore, could it be that Sweeper Monk is at least more knowledgeable then dugu. I'm sure Sweeper Monk could offersome insightful tips for YG knwoing that his martial arts are many times more powerful then anyone in the Condor Trilogy. Heck, he could probably compile a manual even better then 9 Yin and 9 Yang. Of course, it will take a person devoted to Buddism to learn it.

[shanghai girls are hot]

the Sweeper Monk has like super powers. no question about it, he's the ultimate fighter in JY universe.

[mephisto04]

what about dong fang bu bai? I think he/she can easily fight du gu qiu bai or the monk to a stand still if not win. Ren wo xing +lin hu chong+ xiang wen tian was no match against dong fang bu bai's single needle(imagine if he/she used a sword instead, drawing on pi xie jian fa). I don't think u can easily name anyone the best fighter until they actually fought. With that said, give zhang wu ji 40 or so more years, and he can be up there too.

[Evil East]

Even if the assumption is true that Dugu can not teach YG anymore, it doesn't necessarily mean these two are of equal abilities. We are not aware of how high Dugu's inner power is. When YG was mastering the wooden sword, he understood how powerful Dugu is and was in total awe. Also, Dugu is a martial arts genius of no parrallel so there is no way YG can use Dugu's skill the way Dugu would have. It's like XF can use 18 Dragon Palm better than anyone who learns it.

The fact remains that we don't know for sure what was the real lvl of the heroes that DG has defeated, ok he claims himself undefeated but do u really think that all those heroes were at the Greats lvl in terms of martial arts and fighting ability?The Greats are exceptionnal people and only a few people can reach such a high lvl, i mean there can't be thousands of people that can reach such lvl; throughout the whole trilogy, the number of people who can reach such lvl can be counted with the fingers of ur hand : the 5 initial Greats, then ZBT, GJ, YG and the GWM.

the creator of QKDNY never reached level 7 of his own work, but ZWJ did.

here is an example that Candide used in another thread, it just shows u that it is possible for YG to reach a higher lvl than DG himself.

Now as far as the SM is concerned, what is terryfying about him is the fact that even people like MYB and XYS appear like ants against him;Indeed, when the SM started his move to kill MYB, MYB did defend himself, and started a magnifiicient move for that purpose, even XYS and XF said to themselves that was a great move, but the result remains the same, it was useless becoz he was still hit by the SM.

[TheRealMan]

what about dong fang bu bai? I think he/she can easily fight du gu qiu bai or the monk to a stand still if not win. Ren wo xing +lin hu chong+ xiang wen tian was no match against dong fang bu bai's single needle(imagine if he/she used a sword instead, drawing on pi xie jian fa). I don't think u can easily name anyone the best fighter until they actually fought. With that said, give zhang wu ji 40 or so more years, and he can be up there too.

You don't understand how powerful Dugu really is do you?

U think LHC is really that strong? He had no internal energy. HIs dugu 9 swords is the beginning step to Dugu's power. YG's heavy sword skill is a more advanced technique that Dugu made after he created Dugu 9 swords. The beauty of that technique, ONE SHOT KILL. Use a weapon so heavy that it destroys anything in one blow. How can u defend against that? You don't even need to know when it is coming because you can't stop it.

It's like you trying to figure out my strategy in war to plan how to attack me, and I just drop a nuke on you.

Sweeper Monk took on XF, his dad, Murong Fu and his dad. XF alone will wipe the floor with DFBB's face and have left overs to buff it up real nice.

THe decline of martial arts from dynasty to dynasty. That is why the Song Dynasty Characters from Tien Long Ba Bu are considered overall to be the strongest. Dugu was from the Tang Dynasty... so just imagine.

He created the most powerful sword skills ever known...

Sweeper's argument is that he learned all Shaolin martial arts which were created long time ago too so he can match Dugu.

Other than Shi Po Tian may be Guo Jing, there is NO other characters from later dynasties that can even match with those from Tian Long Ba Bu. My opinion Xu Zhu out of the three brothers is by far the strongest. Duan Yu's 6 meridian swords is the UNDISPUTED most powerful attack in all the Jin Yong Universe if mastered theoretically.

The only way is to ask Jin Yong who he intended to be most powerful. If he says Dugu, then no matter how u argue, Dugu is most powerful..

Don't forget, although the book did say that YG reached Dugu's level etc. Sweeper Monk's power was insane, but Jin Yong wrote that he was still hurt..implying that he is still vulnerable.

yet when he was describing Dugu, it is as if he is truly unbeatable...he's so good he's looking to lose...

I mean that's one hell of a name.

[Ken Cheng]

Dugu was from the Tang Dynasty.

Where did this piece of information come from? Jin Yong never explicitly stated when Dook Goo Kau Bai lived. Yeung Gor estimated that Dook Goo Kau Bai had lived "a few decades ago", but that was as close as we ever got to a clue about when he lived.

[i_fotted]

Would either of them be able to beat Cheung Sam Fung?

[Evil East]

THe decline of martial arts from dynasty to dynasty. That is why the Song Dynasty Characters from Tien Long Ba Bu are considered overall to be the strongest. Dugu was from the Tang Dynasty... so just imagine.

where do u got that DG lived in the Tang dynasty? from what i remember, there is no mention of the period wherer he lived in.The decline theory is all but a theory, ok? if u read Lava's posts in this thread http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=10974

u'll see that ZWJ, in terms of potential,can do the same long distance attack as XF.

The only way is to ask Jin Yong who he intended to be most powerful. If he says Dugu, then no matter how u argue, Dugu is most powerful..

nah JY said once in an interview that Z3F is the best martial artist in his universe.

Don't forget, although the book did say that YG reached Dugu's level etc. Sweeper Monk's power was insane, but Jin Yong wrote that he was still hurt..implying that he is still vulnerable.

yet when he was describing Dugu, it is as if he is truly unbeatable...he's so good he's looking to lose...

I mean that's one hell of a name.

DG's undefeated status is a self-claim, ok? we don't really know what kind of people he fought, so we have to take into account this fact, this doesn't mean that DG is not powerful though.
JY never stated that DG was undefeated throughtout the narrator's words, but it is throughout a self claim by DG himself.

[Yeung Gor]

here is an example that Candide used in another thread, it just shows u that it is possible for YG to reach a higher lvl than DG himself.

Of course all is opinions. But I wouldn't argue against this. In fact I will support the theory.

[Dennis Chen]

ZWJ surpassed the creator of Qian Kun Da Noi Yi. The guy (3rd edition) who created 9Yang doesn't sound like his kung fu is all that Great. Why isn't it possible for Yang Guo to have surpassed Dugu Qiubai?

[Yeung Gor]

ZWJ surpassed the creator of Qian Kun Da Noi Yi. The guy (3rd edition) who created 9Yang doesn't sound like his kung fu is all that Great. Why isn't it possible for Yang Guo to have surpassed Dugu Qiubai?

It is possible YG could have surpass Dugu himselve but since Dugu never made an appearance no one can say of certainty. Again I support this theory. YG > Dugu > Sweeper. Pass on the word!

[i_fotted]

It is possible YG could have surpass Dugu himselve but since Dugu never made an appearance no one can say of certainty. Again I support this theory. YG > Dugu > Sweeper. Pass on the word!

So according to you YG is the strongest in the JY universe?

[Yeung Gor]

So according to you YG is the strongest in the JY universe?

Yup, I even had a thread where I explained how YG as the "Ultimate Swordsman" would defeat XF, XZ, and DY. Dugu's sword art help YG to become the best so I'll always hold Dugu in higher regards out of respect.

[Candide]

the creator of QKDNY never reached level 7 of his own work, but ZWJ did.

I never truely buy that last level of DGQB's sword arts: the no sword overcoming sword, that rock, grass or whatever can also become sword. I even thought that perhaps such level only existed in DGQB's mind as he got old and senile and on the way to see his maker (to sue him for a flawed supposedly intelligent design).

However, it's not true that DGQB had nothing more to teach YG. It is only YG's assumptions (it was written in the novel as YG's thoughts, not a matter of fact stated by Jin Yong the narrator), and knowing his arrogant self, YG was likely to be wrong. He was wrong anyway, as he realised while fighting the GWM that he couldn't even move from the Heavy Iron Sword to normal sword, let alone a wooden sword. As a swordsman, ZWJ's feat with the wooden sword and Taichi swordplay (v.s the Yi Tian sword in the hand of the best swordsman in his era) was more impressive than YG's.

[Yeung Gor]

I never truely buy that last level of DGQB's sword arts: the no sword overcoming sword, that rock, grass or whatever can also become sword. I even thought that perhaps such level only existed in DGQB's mind as he got old and senile and on the way to see his maker (to sue him for a flawed supposedly intelligent design).

However, it's not true that DGQB had nothing more to teach YG. It is only YG's assumptions (it was written in the novel as YG's thoughts, not a matter of fact stated by Jin Yong the narrator), and knowing his arrogant self, YG was likely to be wrong. He was wrong anyway, as he realised while fighting the GWM that he couldn't even move from the Heavy Iron Sword to normal sword, let alone a wooden sword. As a swordsman, ZWJ's feat with the wooden sword and Taichi swordplay (v.s the Yi Tian sword in the hand of the best swordsman in his era) was more impressive than YG's.

How could you not buy the last level of DGQB's sword art? YG demonstrated it when he succeed in using the wooden sword as a real sword.

[Ken Cheng]

How could you not buy the last level of DGQB's sword art? YG demonstrated it when he succeed in using the wooden sword as a real sword.

The last level would be no physical sword at all...not even a wooden one. That kind of formless, mass-less sword had already been achieved by the monks of Dali's Celestial Dragon Temple as the 6 Mak Divine Swords.

[Yeung Gor]

The last level would be no physical sword at all...not even a wooden one. That kind of formless, mass-less sword had already been achieved by the monks of Dali's Celestial Dragon Temple as the 6 Mak Divine Swords.

6 Mak Divine Swords isn't much of a sword, more like 6 Mak Divine fingers = 6 X 1YZ.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, it doesn't matter if someone name it a chicken, it's still a duck.

[superboy]

what about dong fang bu bai? I think he/she can easily fight du gu qiu bai or the monk to a stand still if not win. Ren wo xing +lin hu chong+ xiang wen tian was no match against dong fang bu bai's single needle(imagine if he/she used a sword instead, drawing on pi xie jian fa). I don't think u can easily name anyone the best fighter until they actually fought. With that said, give zhang wu ji 40 or so more years, and he can be up there too.

DFBB probably won't stand a chance against Sweeper Monk. DFBB is powerful, but wether he can bring down a fighter like MRB is still a question(not saying that it's not possible). But definitely not in one move like SM.

You don't understand how powerful Dugu really is do you?

U think LHC is really that strong? He had no internal energy. HIs dugu 9 swords is the beginning step to Dugu's power. YG's heavy sword skill is a more advanced technique that Dugu made after he created Dugu 9 swords. The beauty of that technique, ONE SHOT KILL. Use a weapon so heavy that it destroys anything in one blow. How can u defend against that? You don't even need to know when it is coming because you can't stop it.

Well, I'm sure no one knows how powerful Dugu is because we really don't know for sure. I think that at dugu's peak, he's should be stronger then YG's mastery by the end of ROCH. However, the theory of overwhelming your opponent with an unstopable force is also the key theory behind techniques such as XL18Z etc. At that point, the user still rely on the weight of the weapon, so it may not be even close to the pinnacle of swordmanship.