Sweeper vs. Dugu Qiu Bai

[flamer]

let's put it this way:

internal energy level: equal to DY
speed level: comparable to DFBB
sword skill: Flawless mastery of DG9J breaks all weapons, missiles and chi
fighting exp. and warrior instinct: let's say equal to eastern heretic

How about that?

Lol you're just pulling these comparisons from thin air.

[islandmaster108]

Well... this may be full speculation, but at least we can find out how powerfull sm is in the mind of JY readers. besides it is quite fun anyway.

[forgot password]

DGKB could teach an eagle to fight evenly with a great. that's supernatural power.

Dude, u know what? Love can overcome everything and anything, including language barriers!
Dugu's a closet zoophilia addict, he and the bald condor lady are indeed lovers, and because of love he put his best in teaching her his swordsmanship.

Concerning the original poster's question of Dugu vs Supermonk, it's easy to answer, a dude who would climax upon being able to spar with REN WO XING (narrator's words, i.e. Jy's words, xiao ao jiang hu, book 2) like Dugu would get his head smashed like a pumpkin by just a gentle tap from Supermonk the very moment the fight starts.

[flamer]

Well... this may be full speculation, but at least we can find out how powerfull sm is in the mind of JY readers. besides it is quite fun anyway.

Actually it's almost equally hard to know exactly how good SM is, but at least we've seen him in action.

[islandmaster108]

If for example, you think SM can defeat my imaginary DGQB, then we know that in your mind SM is at least that powerfull. If we cannot determine DGQB prowess exactly, we probably can answer the question by imagining how powerfull dgqb could possibly be. I know it is unbased, but if you believe SM could defeat the most powerfull dgqb you can posibly imagine then in all likelyhood SM is stronger then DGQB.

I did pull out those comparison from thin air but it is not exactly without reason. to say that dgqb internal is stronger than YG though without proof is not actually out of the question. since YG internal is around Great level and the only people with higher internal then the greats are DY, XZ and carefree sect elders that is the reason it make DGQB internal comparison with DY. I didn't compare DGQB internal to XZ however, because in my mind, a super talented person may achieve DY internal level but it is beyond believe for me if someone by himself/herself could train equal to 250 years of internal.

[flamer]

Quite good observations. I never spend the effort to think about and give DGQB a level because that is simply impossible due to 1) no appearences and 2) no information. His level ranges from slightly above YG to Sweeper Monk or beyond. Any attempt to give him a definite level is baseless and cannot be justified. So I just accept him as a character we just hear about, quite like the author of Kuihua Baodian and Damo.

[islandmaster108]

Here is my asessment of DGQB base on what little I do know. Note that this is speculation, I like to call it educated guesses though.

I base my guess by assuming that at least DGSD, Condor trilogy and SAJH happen in the same universe. I assume that the DGQB discription in the sword tomb in Rach is the same person as the DGQB discribe by Feng king jiang in sajh. I also assume that all the discription given both in rach and SAJH are true, not embellish or exagerated in any way since I believe it is JY's intend to be so.

I approximate that DGQB live around 100 years before YG's meeting with the condor perhaps more. If we take the deterioration theory to be true, then we can safely assume that DGQB is roaming a martial arts world that have a higher standard then the condor trilogy era. I take the liberty to assume that the standard is equal to DGSD era at the very least.

During his teenage years DGQB is using the sharp sword, this is a sign that his internal level is not high yet, he is a teenager afterall. His swordskill improve at a fast rate however, because he is able to use the flexible sword by the age of twenty or so. During this time DGQB is undefeated in all encounters. We do not know the level of opponent that DGQB face but since the world have a higher standard in martial arts and the fact that DGQB is running around looking for an opponent, this encounter could not have been light. It is likely that DG9J is developed during this time, since DGQB is still young and his internal cultivation is likely limited so chances are high DGQB face opponent with higher internal level. This would explain the reason for DG9J development and the reason why DGQB could defeat opponent with higher internal without lost.

I read some post in this forum that suggest that the heavy iron sword is superior to DG9J. I have the oppinion that this statement is inaccurate. Though DG9J is developed early it does not automatically makes it a weaker arts. I held the oppinion that DG9J is the pinnacle of sword moves or in other words the pinnacle of external sword arts. it is superior to the heavy sword in timing, accuracy and positioning while the heavy sword is superior in energy manipulation aspect. using force to strike, how to strike when opposing force is attacking etc.

There are two possibilities after this. Either we take the view that DGQB's internal is not developed properly until he began to use the heavy sword or we can say that he already have good internal level, only he have not yet intergrated his internal with his sword yet. In any case by the age of 30 or so, DGQB starts using the heavy iron sword. It is likely that he meets the divine condor at this time. He also starts training in the waterfall and starts consuming snake gol around this time too. If we take the first path DGQB's strength level would be around great level maybe slightly inferior but if we take the second path his internal would have surpass the greats since many believe that waterfall training + snake gol is better than 9 yin trainning.

By the age of 40 or so, DGQB starts using wood sword, sign that his internal have reach a very high level, he said he continued to progress until he can use grass and then no sword at all. I believe at this stage DGQB have reach formlessness both in sword move and the internal aspect of the sword and also gives the indication that his internal level contimue to increase.

There are indication that DGQB live for a long time. He at least spend time long enough with the condor until the condor which is an animal however intelligent could understand what's going on and even manage to pass the information to YG.

From SAJH we can approximate DGQB's speed and lightness skill. LHC is fast and there only a few who can surpass LHC in the novel. Yi lin's mother, DFBB probably. If we take the view that DGQB if faster then LHC then his speed must be comparable to those example. The fact that the sword tomb is located on a top of a cliff and the divine condor exceptional speed also suggest a very high lightness skill for DGQB.

How powerfull is DGQB?

[tape]

Like flamer said, all we can really gauge is a minimum range of at least Great level, and an upper range of unknown. There really isn't enough information on him, except that he is probably one of the more powerful people to have existed in history.

I think he is extraordinarily powerful, and my only gripe is when people *ahem Ken* like to say that there is no concrete proof of his abilities, and that he could be a total sham.

[Ken Cheng]

I think he is extraordinarily powerful, and my only gripe is when people *ahem Ken* like to say that there is no concrete proof of his abilities, and that he could be a total sham.

There isn't any concrete proof of his actual abilities, and while I don't think he's a complete sham, I think his apparent singularity might be a byproduct of having not encountered the right opponents.

[islandmaster108]

You and flamer are probably right. there is enough information to determine the minimum level of DGQB but not his maximum level. But if you have to speculate how powerfull would you think DGQB is? I already give my version of DGQB previously. Post no 10 I think.

[Ken Cheng]

You and flamer are probably right. there is enough information to determine the minimum level of DGQB but not his maximum level. But if you have to speculate how powerfull would you think DGQB is? I already give my version of DGQB previously. Post no 10 I think.

I believe that no ROCH Great could singlehandedly defeat Dook Goo Kau Bai, but any one of them would give him the fight of his life and seriously impress him. Two Greats ganging up on him would likely defeat him after a prolonged struggle.

[devilz91]

I think DGQB is far above any ROCH Great since he reached the no-sword stage but still considerably below the Sweeper Monk. As good as DGQB is, there's no way he has greater internal energy than XZ (over 200 years) and XZ still doesn't match up to Sweeper.

[islandmaster108]

I believe that no ROCH Great could singlehandedly defeat Dook Goo Kau Bai, but any one of them would give him the fight of his life and seriously impress him. Two Greats ganging up on him would likely defeat him after a prolonged struggle.

Well. in that case, You would be in the SM supporters camp for the purpose of this thread.

[Ken Cheng]

I think DGQB is far above any ROCH Great since he reached the no-sword stage but still considerably below the Sweeper Monk.

It's the "far" part that I've always had a problem with. I can live with Dook Goo Kau Bai being better than any individual ROCH Great (including Gwok Jing), and I've always been willing to believe that much. I can't read some of those "Dook Goo Kau Bai makes the ROCH Greats look like ants" remarks without throwing up in my mouth a little, though.

[Ken Cheng]

Well. in that case, You would be in the SM supporters camp for the purpose of this thread.

I voted for him...because after all, the Janitor Monk did level two Greats-level martial artists in DGSD without even hardly trying.

As a general principle, however, I really dislike these "invincible" characters in wuxia. Once one of these show up, the story usually jumps the shark.

[devilz91]

It's the "far" part that I've always had a problem with. I can live with Dook Goo Kau Bai being better than any individual ROCH Great (including Gwok Jing), and I've always been willing to believe that much. I can't read some of those "Dook Goo Kau Bai makes the ROCH Greats look like ants" remarks without throwing up in my mouth a little, though.

Well I think YG at best reaches wooden-sword stage (if even that), and YG is around GJ, give or take, so DGQB then should be at least one full level ahead of both GJ and YG.

[islandmaster108]

I voted for him...because after all, the Janitor Monk did level two Greats-level martial artists in DGSD without even hardly trying.

As a general principle, however, I really dislike these "invincible" characters in wuxia. Once one of these show up, the story usually jumps the shark.

they are design for that purpose I suppose.

[Ken Cheng]

Well I think YG at best reaches wooden-sword stage (if even that), and YG is around GJ, give or take, so DGQB then should be at least one full level ahead of both GJ and YG.

One level I can live with. When people start talking about how Dook Goo Kau Bai would beat Gwok Jing and Yeung Gor the way GJ and YG would beat soldiers, however, it starts getting crazy.

they are design for that purpose I suppose.

Yeah, but I think it's extremely lame.

[islandmaster108]

I think DGQB is far above any ROCH Great since he reached the no-sword stage but still considerably below the Sweeper Monk. As good as DGQB is, there's no way he has greater internal energy than XZ (over 200 years) and XZ still doesn't match up to Sweeper.

If your arguement is internal power, I do not think it is a sure thing. Remember DG9J? As long as DGQB sword can injure SM, he still have a chance for victory. Note I say a chance though.

[flamer]

Even by assuming DGQB lived in an age with martial arts level of DGSD is wrong. One, because we do not have that information and two, because non-current novel eras are usually weaker, a lot weaker.

Another problem I remember having is this:
凌厉刚猛，无坚不摧，弱冠前以之与河朔群雄争锋。At the age of twenty, he was competing against heros of 河朔. I believe that is a region north of Yellow River. That makes him a contender in a regional area. As we all know, such characters dominate in a region is usually, not that good. Murong Fu or any decent elder/leader of sects can usually dominate a region.

At the age of forty, DGQB essentially reached Yang Guo's level. I do believe the statement that YG seemed like DGQB in his days. Remember Yang Guo was hardly 40 yet as of end of ROCH. This means DGQB's level was slightly slower than YG and quite a bit slower than say Zhang Wuji.

What happens after is unknown. He may have got laser swords to come out of his hair. We just don't know. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt to a certain extent, but not overboard.

Even someone like GJ/YG will not meet a match throughout the world if they had that kind of wish to be defeated. I'm not even going into the "pleased to meet RWX comment".