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Thread: rescuing xiao zhao

  1. #1
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    Default rescuing xiao zhao

    it is an old question. but with a number of new faces recently, i thought it may be interesting to revisit one of my favorite questions again.

    many here may know that I do not like zhang wuji very much. The main reason is that zhang wuji (knowing that xiao zhao loves him and who did nothing wrong to him) does not even make an attempt to rescue xiao zhao (and of course her mum) in persia.

    what you think he should do this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wkeej
    The main reason is that zhang wuji (knowing that xiao zhao loves him and who did nothing wrong to him) does not even make an attempt to rescue xiao zhao (and of course her mum) in persia.
    Could he have done so? Wouldn't this put his Ming Sect against their Persian HQ, and risk retaliation?

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    It would have been extremely irresponsible for Cheung Mo Gei to "rescue" Siu Chiu.

    1. Doing so would have split the Persian and Chinese Ming Cults. The two Ming Cult branches would have gone to war against each other. All hell would have broken loose. Cheung Mo Gei had worked so hard to reunify the Chinese Ming Cult and make it a respected martial organization in China...one that would soon spearhead the Chinese wulin's rebellion against the Mongol government. What kind of hero/man would he be if he threw all that away for a woman?

    He didn't like it. He loved Siu Chiu. But it was the only responsible thing to do.

    2. Leading the Persian Ming Cult was Siu Chiu's responsibility. It was a job that she was born to do. It wasn't a job she really wanted, but nevertheless, she had a responsibility to scores of followers. Were her desires or Cheung Mo Gei's desires more important than the needs of thousands?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    1. Doing so would have split the Persian and Chinese Ming Cults. The two Ming Cult branches would have gone to war against each other.
    Exactly. The Persians would certainly have retaliated if their Holy Maiden/Goddess was "abducted".

    OT: I wonder what would have been the outcome of such a war? I've always had the impression that the Persians were more powerful than their Central Plains counterparts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by miette
    Exactly. The Persians would certainly have retaliated if their Holy Maiden/Goddess was "abducted".

    OT: I wonder what would have been the outcome of such a war? I've always had the impression that the Persians were more powerful than their Central Plains counterparts.
    It could have been a disaster. By that time, Cheung Mo Gei was known as a hero to the Chinese wulin, and the Ming Cult had become widely respected. If the Persian Ming Cult attacked the Chinese Ming Cult, the members of the Six Orthodox Sects of China might have counterattacked the Persians to support their Chinese Ming Cult allies (and because, most likely, the Chinese wulin leaders would have reasoned that if the Persians attacked the Chinese Ming Cult, then the Chinese wulin itself might be the Persians' next target). No matter who "won", they would be ripe targets for the Mongols. It would have been a catastrophe.

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    sigh.

    1. Assuming that xiao zhao was not found, am I right that Golden Flower Granny will be sent back to Persia to be executed? and the Persian Cult will have to find another female virgin to be leader?

    2. Since xiao zhao is now the leader, can she change the "constitution" to say that leader can marry?

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wkeej
    sigh.

    1. Assuming that xiao zhao was not found, am I right that Golden Flower Granny will be sent back to Persia to be executed? and the Persian Cult will have to find another female virgin to be leader?

    Which means Cheung Mo Gei would be forcing Siu Chiu to be an accomplice in the murder of her own mother if he forced the issue and "rescued" her. That would have endeared her to him, wouldn't it? Before Siu Chiu's identity became known, things were fine. After her cover was blown, Cheung Mo Gei had no choice but to go along with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by wkeej
    2. Since xiao zhao is now the leader, can she change the "constitution" to say that leader can marry?
    Maybe. I don't know what the extent of a Persian Ming Cult Leader's powers were. Obviously, they had the authority to make rules, but there might have been rules that were immutable. No idea if this was one of them (most likely, however).

    The point being (and I get into this all the time in Yeung Gor-related arguments) that there are things in life more important than personal romances. When a personal romance is weighed against the good of the world, sacrifices have to be made...ESPECIALLY by those who are supposed to be heroes.

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    so is jin yong at fault? once i think he noted that he liked xiao zhao the most and xiao zhao is most suitable for zwj if he has the choice. time is running short. will there be a 4th edition?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    Which means Cheung Mo Gei would be forcing Siu Chiu to be an accomplice in the murder of her own mother if he forced the issue and "rescued" her. That would have endeared her to him, wouldn't it? Before Siu Chiu's identity became known, things were fine. After her cover was blown, Cheung Mo Gei had no choice but to go along with it.



    Maybe. I don't know what the extent of a Persian Ming Cult Leader's powers were. Obviously, they had the authority to make rules, but there might have been rules that were immutable. No idea if this was one of them (most likely, however).

    The point being (and I get into this all the time in Yeung Gor-related arguments) is that there are things in life more important than personal romances. When a personal romance is weighed against the good of the world, sacrifices have to be made...ESPECIALLY for those who are supposed to be heroes.
    Not to mention, after plunging China wulin into catastrophe because of one woman, Wuji will be at some inn drinking wine and thinking: "I wonder where is (Min Min/Zhi Ruo mei mei/Yin Li)?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by wkeej


    so is jin yong at fault?
    No, there's no fault here. Not all romances culminate in happy endings (how boring fiction would be if they always did). Cheung Mo Gei and Siu Chiu had a strong affinity for each other, but fate decreed that neither would be "The One" for the other. That's how life works sometimes.

    Wuxia fiction is full of tragedy and personal loss. Being a hero is a tremendous burden that demands many sacrifices. It's not all fun and games and butt-kicking.

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    thank you, esp to Ken.

    since it's such a burden for zwj to go rescue xiao zhao, i will go myself and bring her (and her mum) to the island of fire and ice to meet zwj+zm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    No matter who "won", they would be ripe targets for the Mongols.
    Yes, this would be quite difficult since Yuan Dynasty was supposed to fall pretty soon (I can't be sure though since my Chinese history is flimsy at best).

    Quote Originally Posted by wkeej
    so is jin yong at fault? once i think he noted that he liked xiao zhao the most and xiao zhao is most suitable for zwj if he has the choice. time is running short. will there be a 4th edition?
    You really want them to end up together, don't you? Actually, I prefer Xiao Zhao by a mile over the other girls too. She's the prettiest and sweetest and in my humble opinion, loves ZWJ the most compared to the others. I don't quite like the way ZM embarrassed ZWJ just for fun, or the way ZZR tried to humiliate ZWJ in Shaolin just to get back at him for ditching her at the alter. I believe Xiao Zhao would never have done so no matter how ZWJ treated her.

    But if ZWJ does indeed marry Xiao Zhao and live happily ever-after, I think their happily-ever-after will be rather bland. Very sweet and loving, but bland, since both of them are rather colourless in terms of their personality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    sacrifices have to be made...ESPECIALLY for those who are supposed to be heroes.
    Couldn't agree more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by miette

    Actually, I prefer Xiao Zhao by a mile over the other girls too. She's the prettiest and sweetest and in my humble opinion, loves ZWJ the most compared to the others. I don't quite like the way ZM embarrassed ZWJ just for fun, or the way ZZR tried to humiliate ZWJ in Shaolin just to get back at him for ditching her at the alter. I believe Xiao Zhao would never have done so no matter how ZWJ treated her.
    Were it not for the Ming Cult problem, if I were in Cheung Mo Gei's position, I would have picked Siu Chiu myself...no-brainer. She was the only normal one among all of his paramours. I'm serious: Chiu Mun, Chu-yee, and *especially* Chow Chi Yerk...these girls were all psychos.

    Historical note: the Yuan Dynasty fell in the year C.E. 1368...which I estimate is about 10 - 15 years after HSDS ended.

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    Quote Originally Posted by miette
    You really want them to end up together, don't you? Actually, I prefer Xiao Zhao by a mile over the other girls too. She's the prettiest and sweetest and in my humble opinion, loves ZWJ the most compared to the others. I don't quite like the way ZM embarrassed ZWJ just for fun, or the way ZZR tried to humiliate ZWJ in Shaolin just to get back at him for ditching her at the alter. I believe Xiao Zhao would never have done so no matter how ZWJ treated her.
    personally, i do not mind zwj to land up with zm, xiao zhao and zhuo zhiruo. i just feel sad for xiao zhao for not being to be with zwj. zhiruo would have a chance to reconile with zwj if she insisted that zwj marry her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wkeej
    personally, i do not mind zwj to land up with zm, xiao zhao and zhuo zhiruo.
    I don't think this will work. I can't imagine ZM or ZZR being willing to share ZWJ with anyone else. Of course, Xiao Zhao will be more than satisfied just to be ZWJ's maid and not his partner. But even if ZM or ZZR agrees, life will be very difficult and cruel for Xiao Zhao. She'll have to face watching ZWJ being lovey-dovey with them.

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    Okay, okay, this is what I think ZWJ should have done if he really wants XZ with him.

    Since XZ is the CEO of the Persian Ming Cult (PMC), ZWJ should have used his excellent relationship with XZ to negotiate a military alliance with the PMC on the pretext of enlisting the PMC's help to expel the Mongols. XZ, being the CEO should be able to use her authority/influence to push through this alliance. ZWJ can of course sweeten the deal by giving the PMC some QianKun fast track tips or something.

    [Since this is a Ming Cult internal matter, the other 6 Big Clans cannot say much. But I am not sure how big these guys are on foreign interference in a country's affairs though. I am assuming that if this is an issue, the 2 CEOs can resolve it.]

    Then, XZ can come back to China under the pretext of jointly directing the offensive against the Mongols. By day, she and ZWJ are co-leaders fighting the foreign aggressors and protecting China's sovereignty. By night, she can serve ZWJ. Either way, XZ will be back at ZWJ's side.

    During the years it take to drive out the Mongols, while enjoying the benefit of being with ZWJ, XZ can also headhunt another virgin to take over her place. She can then relinquish her position and marry ZWJ if she wants. [Whether ZWJ wants to wait that long to marry, I dunno - he seems like a horny fella to be so patient. Furthermore, with ZM and ZZR beckoning, it may be hard. ]

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    Quote Originally Posted by wuming
    Okay, okay, this is what I think ZWJ should have done if he really wants XZ with him.

    Since XZ is the CEO of the Persian Ming Cult (PMC), ZWJ should have used his excellent relationship with XZ to negotiate a military alliance with the PMC on the pretext of enlisting the PMC's help to expel the Mongols. XZ, being the CEO should be able to use her authority/influence to push through this alliance. ZWJ can of course sweeten the deal by giving the PMC some QianKun fast track tips or something.

    [Since this is a Ming Cult internal matter, the other 6 Big Clans cannot say much. But I am not sure how big these guys are on foreign interference in a country's affairs though. I am assuming that if this is an issue, the 2 CEOs can resolve it.]

    Then, XZ can come back to China under the pretext of jointly directing the offensive against the Mongols. By day, she and ZWJ are co-leaders fighting the foreign aggressors and protecting China's sovereignty. By night, she can serve ZWJ. Either way, XZ will be back at ZWJ's side.

    During the years it take to drive out the Mongols, while enjoying the benefit of being with ZWJ, XZ can also headhunt another virgin to take over her place. She can then relinquish her position and marry ZWJ if she wants. [Whether ZWJ wants to wait that long to marry, I dunno - he seems like a horny fella to be so patient. Furthermore, with ZM and ZZR beckoning, it may be hard. ]
    LOL, I don't think XZ has as much authority as it seems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by i_fotted
    LOL, I don't think XZ has as much authority as it seems.
    Why do you think those Persian nutheads put young maidens in charge? It is so that they can easily manipulate her and shift the blames on her.
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

    "I disapprove of what I say, but I will defend to the death my right to say it."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Candide
    Why do you think those Persian nutheads put young maidens in charge? It is so that they can easily manipulate her and shift the blames on her.
    I think its just for traditional purposes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by i_fotted
    I think its just for traditional purposes.
    And why do you think they came up with that tradition? It has to start somewhere.
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

    "I disapprove of what I say, but I will defend to the death my right to say it."

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