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Thread: Wong Chongyang or Dugu Qiubai

  1. #41
    Senior Member IcyFox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Chen
    Seems to me, mastering the Heavy Iron Sword depended too much on snake gall bladders instead of personal cultivation (which is actually the foundation of Wong Chongyang's Daoist philosophies). That makes me question if (as an entire set of kung fu) Dugu Qiubai's martial arts is better than Wong Chongyang's. Without the snake gall bladders, all you have is a great set of sword moves like Linghu Chong.

    I doubt he got to eat any of that delicacy when he trained at the seaside. Unless he found some sort of fish as an alternative to the snakes' galls. Abalone? Sharks' Fins?

  2. #42
    Senior Member Extremer88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IcyFox
    I doubt he got to eat any of that delicacy when he trained at the seaside. Unless he found some sort of fish as an alternative to the snakes' galls. Abalone? Sharks' Fins?
    Haha... Didn't Zhou Botong ride on the back of the sharks during LOCH... maybe he could pluck some of its fins... i think maybe Hong Qigong also never tasted abalone or sharks' fins during his entire lifetime...

    Btw, DGQB is of a much bigger build, and he does not belongs to the Central Plains... And to teach a condor singlehandly, I doubt WCY can do it

  3. #43
    Senior Member Exodus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extremer88
    Haha... Didn't Zhou Botong ride on the back of the sharks during LOCH... maybe he could pluck some of its fins... i think maybe Hong Qigong also never tasted abalone or sharks' fins during his entire lifetime...

    Btw, DGQB is of a much bigger build, and he does not belongs to the Central Plains... And to teach a condor singlehandly, I doubt WCY can do it

    How do you know that DGQB is bigger build?

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extremer88
    Btw, DGQB is of a much bigger build, and he does not belongs to the Central Plains... And to teach a condor singlehandly, I doubt WCY can do it
    The Condor himself is already a rare species, and intelligent too. No one need to teach that thing.

    Some great feats that Wang Chong Yang did, IIRC, he is the one who build and design the Ancient Tomb. He went and found that Ice bed, and somehow brought it back. I doubt Dugu Qiubai could do any of these things. Dugu Qiubai is only a swordman, and Wang Chong Yang is well rounded and a knowledgeable person.

  5. #45
    Senior Member KJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaiHan
    The Condor himself is already a rare species, and intelligent too. No one need to teach that thing.

    Some great feats that Wang Chong Yang did, IIRC, he is the one who build and design the Ancient Tomb. He went and found that Ice bed, and somehow brought it back. I doubt Dugu Qiubai could do any of these things. Dugu Qiubai is only a swordman, and Wang Chong Yang is well rounded and a knowledgeable person.
    No basis for your doubts. We don't know enough about him.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by KJ
    No basis for your doubts. We don't know enough about him.
    What Jin Yong wrote is enough. Is it not? Enough to know how great he is, and what Jin Yong didn't wrote is probably not worth mentioning.

    Beside a guy who just live in a cave, who doesn't even take the time to build a house or so. It is unlikely that he could build something like the Ancient Tomb.

  7. #47
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KJ
    No basis for your doubts. We don't know enough about him.
    In most arguments, the standard of proof is applied towards things that are alleged to exist, not to things that are alleged not to exist. If someone were to claim that Dook Goo Kau Bai had wings and could fly, that person would be obliged to prove it. On the other hand, if someone were to claim that Dook Goo Kau Bai did not have wings, that person is not obliged to prove it because, after all, Dook Goo Kau Bai was human and presumably did not have wings.

  8. #48
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    To say a genius martial artist with an amazing condor and martial arts theory is not well rounded and ONLY a swordsman is also presuming quite a bit I'd say..

  9. #49
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tape
    To say a genius martial artist with an amazing condor and martial arts theory is not well rounded and ONLY a swordsman is also presuming quite a bit I'd say..
    The Divine Condor was amazing because it was amazing. It wasn't amazing because of Dook Goo Kau Bai. He didn't create the Divine Condor in a laboratory or give birth to it himself (at least I hope not), so what credit does Dook Goo Kau Bai merit for having encountered the bird and the bird somehow deciding it wanted to follow him around?

    And we only know that Dook Goo Kau Bai was knowledgeable about swordsmanship. He was probably very good at stabbing and slicing people to death with swords. That tells me zero about his knowledge of philosophy, medicine, physiology, inner power cultivation, organizing and leading people, etc....all skills that we *know* Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung to have mastered.

    We know for sure that Dook Goo Kau Bai was very good at making exotic swords and was probably extremely good at using them. That's all we know. Everything else is speculation.

  10. #50
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    Plus, by the end of LOCH, of all the great martial artists, only 1 didn't think Wang Chongyang wasn't the Greatest or wasn't indebted to him in some way. Both Yi Deng and Hwang Yaoshi were beaten by Wang Chongyang. Guo Jing's inner power foundation is Quanzhen. Yang Guo's sword foundation was Quanzhen. Zhou Botong's entire martial arts foundation was also Wang Chongyang's. Only Jue Yuan had no relationship of any kind with Wang Chongyang. Pretty impressive, I'd say.

  11. #51
    Senior Member Extremer88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exodus
    How do you know that DGQB is bigger build?
    I think JIn Yong once said before in one of his interviews...
    And DGQB's real (parent's given) name is not Dugu Qiubai, he adopted this name...

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exodus
    How do you know that DGQB is bigger build?
    We don't know it, and we certainly can't prove it, but it's not a bad guess. I think that Jin Yong mentioned that Dook Goo Kau Bai originated from Siberia, and the average Siberian male is generally taller and huskier than his Han Chinese counterpart. He needs to be: Siberia's climate and land are so harsh during its long winter that less robust constitutions will have a very difficult time surviving.

  13. #53
    Senior Member Extremer88's Avatar
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    So from where does DGQB learned his chinese from???

  14. #54
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extremer88
    So from where does DGQB learned his chinese from???
    China. He was said to perhaps have been born and raised in Siberia, but spent much of his adulthood in China.

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    Senior Member Extremer88's Avatar
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    Siberia is Russia then? Would't it be weird seeing a caucasian running around central plains???

  16. #56
    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Chen
    Plus, by the end of LOCH, of all the great martial artists, only 1 didn't think Wang Chongyang wasn't the Greatest or wasn't indebted to him in some way. Both Yi Deng and Hwang Yaoshi were beaten by Wang Chongyang. Guo Jing's inner power foundation is Quanzhen. Yang Guo's sword foundation was Quanzhen. Zhou Botong's entire martial arts foundation was also Wang Chongyang's. Only Jue Yuan had no relationship of any kind with Wang Chongyang. Pretty impressive, I'd say.
    Except in 3rd Edition, even 9 Yang had something to do with WCY XD

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by tape
    To say a genius martial artist with an amazing condor and martial arts theory is not well rounded and ONLY a swordsman is also presuming quite a bit I'd say..
    What would be amazing if Dugu could teach that thing how to fly. By then I'll be amazed.

  18. #58
    Senior Member Crazy8's Avatar
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    didnt they mention about YG not knowing the complete stance and techniqic of DGQB's form? he only learn to the iron sword and stop, which combine with his internal streight made him a great. I think if he learn the complete to where sword without sword, he would surpass the greats by a far range.
    i think DGQB > WCY
    WCY's martial arts were to against (devil) Ming cults and related martial arts and not to against that of maybe the GWM or maybe DGQB's martial arts.
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  19. #59
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    Dong Xie, Xi Du, Nan Di, Bei Gai all had very different martials arts. Wang Chongyang beat them all.

  20. #60
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extremer88
    Siberia is Russia then? Would't it be weird seeing a caucasian running around central plains???
    Well, don't forget that Russia is *huge*, and part of it (including Siberia) extends into the Far East. Dook Goo Kau Bai, if he were Siberian, was definitely an East Asian Siberian.

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