+ Reply to Thread
Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst 123456
Results 101 to 119 of 119

Thread: Wong Chongyang or Dugu Qiubai

  1. #101
    Senior Member IcyFox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Unknown
    Posts
    4,556

    Default

    Hmmm, with Laviathan and Candide debating in the same thread, I'd expect it to be spectacular.

    And I forgot to mention that one of the Ancient Tomb's members was a man, so not all of them are men-haters.

  2. #102
    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    ( @ )( @ )
    Posts
    4,672

    Default

    Yang Guo was a man? Actually Yang Guo was a big man-hater too. He only got on well with chicks.

    Btw I'm full of shit and Laviathan is full of wuxia knowledge. Maybe it won't be as spectacular as you may think.
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

    "I disapprove of what I say, but I will defend to the death my right to say it."

  3. #103
    Senior Member IcyFox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Unknown
    Posts
    4,556

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Candide
    Yang Guo was a man?
    Hmmm, that's an extremely tough question. I think I need to consult Immanuel Kant's Crituque of Pure Reason before I can figure out an answer.

    Anyway I didn't mention Yang Guo. I just said the Ancient Tomb had at least 1 male member. Maybe... it's Lady Yang!

  4. #104
    Senior Member Laviathan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    1,530

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Candide
    Ken is an extremist. I already said that I don't agree with him.

    If you ask me for an honest opinion, they are all nutters. Or maybe I'm nut, but that's beside the point eh?

    I know nothing of LCY's disciple, or maid rather, but LCY, Granny Sun (who tried to kill the Quanzhen master then called him a murderer when he tried to defend himself and injured her in the act), LMC, Lady Yang and her maids are all f'ed up to me. XLN was almost on the way (remember the things she said to YG? like, before I die, I'll kill you, because I promise to look after you) but luckily due to some extraordinary circumstances, she changed.
    Fair enough.

    I'm full of shit and Laviathan is full of wuxia knowledge. Maybe it won't be as spectacular as you may think.
    Well, don't be so hard on yourself. Frankly, I don't possess much knowledge in anything... And I have always kinda liked your "shit".
    對 敵 須 狠 , 斬 草 除 根 , 男 女 老 幼 , 不 留 一 人

  5. #105
    Senior Member Tazzy1972's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Tazzy Land
    Posts
    1,348

    Default

    hahahahaha
    TaZzY InC

  6. #106
    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    ( @ )( @ )
    Posts
    4,672

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Laviathan
    Well, don't be so hard on yourself. Frankly, I don't possess much knowledge in anything... And I have always kinda liked your "shit".
    Only "kinda liked'? I thought you would be crazy about my BS posts.
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

    "I disapprove of what I say, but I will defend to the death my right to say it."

  7. #107
    Senior Member KJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    609

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TaiHan
    What Jin Yong wrote is enough. Is it not? Enough to know how great he is, and what Jin Yong didn't wrote is probably not worth mentioning.

    Beside a guy who just live in a cave, who doesn't even take the time to build a house or so. It is unlikely that he could build something like the Ancient Tomb.
    Well, what Jin Yong wrote wasn't enough to base that statement on. We can safely say Guo Jing couldn't have built something like the Ancient Tomb because we know enough about him without having Jin Yong explicitly say it. However, we do not know enough about DGKB to make that presumption.

  8. #108
    Senior Member KJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    609

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    The Divine Condor was amazing because it was amazing. It wasn't amazing because of Dook Goo Kau Bai. He didn't create the Divine Condor in a laboratory or give birth to it himself (at least I hope not), so what credit does Dook Goo Kau Bai merit for having encountered the bird and the bird somehow deciding it wanted to follow him around?

    And we only know that Dook Goo Kau Bai was knowledgeable about swordsmanship. He was probably very good at stabbing and slicing people to death with swords. That tells me zero about his knowledge of philosophy, medicine, physiology, inner power cultivation, organizing and leading people, etc....all skills that we *know* Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung to have mastered.

    We know for sure that Dook Goo Kau Bai was very good at making exotic swords and was probably extremely good at using them. That's all we know. Everything else is speculation.
    Yes, we knew he was an excellent swordsman, but we do not know anything about his knowledge in other fields as you said. So how can we presume that he is not capable of something that requires intelligence in those fields? We can't speculate about his abilities other than swordsmanship, whether it being positive or negative. So, that's why I say we can't presume that he can or cannot build the Ancient Tomb.

  9. #109
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    21,415

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KJ
    Yes, we knew he was an excellent swordsman, but we do not know anything about his knowledge in other fields as you said. So how can we presume that he is not capable of something that requires intelligence in those fields? We can't speculate about his abilities other than swordsmanship, whether it being positive or negative. So, that's why I say we can't presume that he can or cannot build the Ancient Tomb.
    The burden of proof should be on the positive, not the negative. Knowing nothing about an individual, we assume that he/she can do nothing other than the basics. Any other skills must be proven.

    "He probably built it because it's possible that he could" isn't a very strong argument, and neither is "he can because nobody said he couldn't."

    Positive proof is persuasive; assumptions based on lack of information are not.

  10. #110
    Senior Member duguxiaojing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,505

    Default

    We can't speculate about his abilities other than swordsmanship, whether it being positive or negative. So, that's why I say we can't presume that he can or cannot build the Ancient Tomb.
    Just to add to the discussion, when YG saw the sword tomb he was extremely impressed and it was mentioned by the narrator that it was obvious that Dugu was proboally a gifted swordsman as well as intelligent. Even so not sure if that meant he was smart enough to create the ancient tomb, but proboally safe to assume that he was a pretty smart person.
    wow..04-08....4 years just like that..time flies..

  11. #111
    Senior Member KJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    609

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    The burden of proof should be on the positive, not the negative. Knowing nothing about an individual, we assume that he/she can do nothing other than the basics. Any other skills must be proven.

    "He probably built it because it's possible that he could" isn't a very strong argument, and neither is "he can because nobody said he couldn't."

    Positive proof is persuasive; assumptions based on lack of information are not.
    Then we can also say that Guo Jing cannot beat Qiu Qian Ren in a fight because that never happened.

  12. #112
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    17,996

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KJ
    Then we can also say that Guo Jing cannot beat Qiu Qian Ren in a fight because that never happened.
    We do know that Guo Jing can beat Qiu Qianren, in all likelihood.

    Guo Jing >= Golden Wheel Monk.

    Golden Wheel Monk > Qiu Qianren.

    So Guo Jing > Qiu Qianren.
    TC to Ken: "You need to watch the ending of ROCH 83."

  13. #113
    Senior Member KJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    609

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    We do know that Guo Jing can beat Qiu Qianren, in all likelihood.

    Guo Jing >= Golden Wheel Monk.
    I'm not sure if this has been proven. Although, in all likelihood, it is true. (I believe it, without any evidence however)

  14. #114
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    21,415

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KJ
    Then we can also say that Guo Jing cannot beat Qiu Qian Ren in a fight because that never happened.
    PJ has addressed this quite reasonably. We have some data about Gwok Jing, the Golden Wheel Monk, and Kau Cheen Yan to reach something of a positive conclusion. With Dook Goo Kau Bai, we have no data at all.

  15. #115
    Senior Member KJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    609

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    PJ has addressed this quite reasonably. We have some data about Gwok Jing, the Golden Wheel Monk, and Kau Cheen Yan to reach something of a positive conclusion. With Dook Goo Kau Bai, we have no data at all.
    I agree, although that conclusion is debatable. It doesn't seem like this is going anywhere, so I will stop here.

  16. #116
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    1,101

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KJ
    Well, what Jin Yong wrote wasn't enough to base that statement on. We can safely say Guo Jing couldn't have built something like the Ancient Tomb because we know enough about him without having Jin Yong explicitly say it. However, we do not know enough about DGKB to make that presumption.
    This is only my opinion.

    What you say I do agree, but I only applied to real life situations.

    As this is only a fiction novel, I can only look at the novel from a reader's, the narrator's, and the writer's point of view. I based my speculations(or IMO interpretation) what the writer suggested.

    As many have suggested the battle between Huang Shang and Dugu Qiubai, as Jin Yong didn't write anything about this. Based on the information given about Dugu Qiubai, we can't say that it didn't happen. But do we truly believe Jin Yong meant to have these two fight each other?

    What Jin Yong's had wrote is possible, what Jin Yong didn't wrote or implied is not possible.

    Like one can made an insertion that someone travelled back in time, and somehow killed Dugu Qiubai. As Jin Yong didn't write anything about a time machine, nor did he wrote anything about Dugu Qiubai's death. But again does Jin Yong suggested this, IMO I would say no.

    Quote Originally Posted by KJ
    Then we can also say that Guo Jing cannot beat Qiu Qian Ren in a fight because that never happened.
    Although it is not written in the novel, but as a story it is obivously implied, not specifically written but expressed, in the novel.

    Which there is no implications of Dugu Qiubai's other abilities.
    Last edited by TaiHan; 02-07-06 at 12:38 PM.

  17. #117
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    34

    Default

    Dugu Qiubai would beat Wang Chongyang.

  18. #118
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Giang Ho, Canada
    Posts
    3,938

    Default

    Martial art wise, Dugu Qiubai would kick WCY arse in less than 20 moves.

  19. #119
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1

    Default

    Could it be that Dugu Quibai is actually Wang Chongyang when he was younger and not yet found Quanzhen school? He was much older than the other greats and the other greats seem to be of the same age with Quenzhen seven.

    Dugu Quibai arrived at the cave in his forties. He then buried all previous sword he used. He was hopeless for not having anyone to defeat him and then he met Lin Chaoying who can defeat him. They both involved in complicated love relationship. Chongyang then abandoned The Condor, became a taoist and founded Quanzhen school when he was 50 something.

    At the battle of Huashan, Chongyang would be around 70-80 years old with all the other greats around 20-30 years old.

    That will make Yang Guo and Xiaolongnu as the the real fulfillment of the love story between Wang Chongyang and Lin Chaoying.
    Last edited by jed-revolutia; 04-26-14 at 03:31 AM.

Similar Threads

  1. Dugu Qiubai doubters take note
    By PJ in forum Wuxia Fiction
    Replies: 94
    Last Post: 03-24-10, 03:15 PM
  2. Xiao Feng vs. Dugu Qiubai
    By Dennis Chen in forum Wuxia Fiction
    Replies: 133
    Last Post: 03-24-10, 08:42 AM
  3. Wong Chongyang + Lin Chaoying vs Dugu Qiubai
    By Dennis Chen in forum Wuxia Fiction
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 03-21-10, 10:28 PM
  4. Dugu Qiubai Martial Arts
    By Dirt in forum Wuxia Fiction
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 04-11-06, 08:42 PM
  5. Dugu Qiubai article
    By Extremer88 in forum Wuxia Fiction
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 03-24-06, 12:36 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts