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Thread: Revisions: Are they good or bad?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Yeung Gor's Avatar
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    Default Revisions: Are they good or bad?

    So far JY has revised some of his novels 3 times, making minor name changes and sometimes he make significant change in events. What are everyone's thought on them?

    I haven't had the fortune to read all 3 revisions to make my judgement in whether I like or dislike the changes. But generally speaking I don't like revisions unless they are only to add more details. But when significant events are changed. I am against it.

    What are you guys thought on it? which revisions should hold more significance in debate?

  2. #2
    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    It's good because I get to correct and confuse people, especially those who have only watched TVB toilet paper adaptations
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

    "I disapprove of what I say, but I will defend to the death my right to say it."

  3. #3
    Senior Member Yeung Gor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candide
    It's good because I get to correct and confuse people, especially those who have only watched TVB toilet paper adaptations
    So you don't like TVB adaptations, which do you like then?

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    Senior Member 999roses's Avatar
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    I say production companies stop trying to milk money out of Jin Yong's novels. Maybe wuxia fans will never get sick of those endless adaptations, but everyone should know the stories by now; how much more can they improve/change/add anyway, except to promote some new actors/actresses? It's bad enough that there's companies from 3 + areas, i.e. Mainland, HK, Taiwan, sometimes Singapore too re-making Jin Yong series, but now they're re-doing their own works every 5-10 years. When is it ever going to stop?

  5. #5
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candide
    It's good because I get to correct and confuse people, especially those who have only watched TVB toilet paper adaptations
    Hey, that includes me!

    It's a mixed bag. There are no revisions that I outright hate, but some are better than others. The additional fleshing out of Wong Yerk See's relationships with his students (especially Mui Chiu Fung) was unnecessary in my opinion, but it doesn't ruin anything for me. I also didn't think it was necessary to change the Golden Wheel Monk's Chinese name from Jinlun Fawang to Jinlun Guoshi, but I suppose even wuxia fiction needs to be more politically correct these days. And Hong Lung 28 Palms? Why was that necessary? And I really don't buy the new origin of the 9 Yeung Jen Ging (a Buddhist monk friend of Wong Chung Yeung invented it after skimming through the 9 Yum Jen Ging).

    I definitely do like the fact that Yeung Gor and Little Dragon Girl remained active after ROCH (elevates my opinion of them greatly). The new concept of the 9 Yum Jen Ging and the Mo Muk War Tactics Manual being stored on Peach Blossom Island after the fall of Seung Yeung rather than inside the Heaven Sword and the Dragon Sabre helps to remove some very dubious physics.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Yeung Gor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    Hey, that includes me!

    It's a mixed bag. There are no revisions that I outright hate, but some are better than others. The additional fleshing out of Wong Yerk See's relationships with his students (especially Mui Chiu Fung) was unnecessary in my opinion, but it doesn't ruin anything for me. I also didn't think it was necessary to change the Golden Wheel Monk's Chinese name from Jinlung Fawang to Jinlun Guoshi, but I suppose even wuxia fiction needs to be more politically correct these days. And Hong Lung 28 Palms? Why was that necessary? And I really don't buy the new origin of the 9 Yeung Jen Ging (a Buddhist monk friend of Wong Chung Yeung invented it after skimming through the 9 Yum Jen Ging).

    I definitely do like the fact that Yeung Gor and Little Dragon Girl remained active after ROCH (elevates my opinion of them greatly). The new concept of the 9 Yum Jen Ging and the Mo Muk War Tactics Manual being stored on Peach Blossom Island after the fall of Seung Yeung rather than inside the Heaven Sword and the Dragon Sabre helps to remove some very dubious physics.
    So Ken, you haven't answer the last question. Which revisions would hold more weight in a debate?

  7. #7
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yeung Gor
    So Ken, you haven't answer the last question. Which revisions would hold more weight in a debate?
    What do you mean? The current versions must be the official versions. Second Editions superseded First Editions, and Third Editions now supercede both First and Second Editions. I don't think it's a matter of preference.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yeung Gor
    So you don't like TVB adaptations, which do you like then?
    I only like the novels, and I prefer watching mainland adaptations as they have lots of nice babes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng a TVB victim :p
    Hey, that includes me!
    So get off your bum and read the translations! *points to sig
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

    "I disapprove of what I say, but I will defend to the death my right to say it."

  9. #9
    Senior Member Yeung Gor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    What do you mean? The current versions must be the official versions. Second Editions superseded First Editions, and Third Editions now supercede both First and Second Editions. I don't think it's a matter of preference.
    It should be a matter of preference. For me, I think the original copy or version holds more weight. I know JY is the god, but the gospel has already been written long time ago, and I refuse the New Testatment.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Yeung Gor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candide
    I only like the novels
    Only the novels? What is wrong with you!

  11. #11
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candide
    So get off your bum and read the translations! *points to sig
    I've promised myself that when the translations of LOCH, ROCH, and HSDS are complete, I will read them...but not until then. I *hate* starting something and not finishing it.

  12. #12
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yeung Gor
    Only the novels? What is wrong with you!
    Candide is a Luddite. He hates modern technology.

    Which is difficult to reconcile with the fact that he's a computer engineer, website designer, and web forum regular.

  13. #13
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yeung Gor
    It should be a matter of preference. For me, I think the original copy or version holds more weight. I know JY is the god, but the gospel has already been written long time ago, and I refuse the New Testatment.
    I grew up with adaptations that took the bulk of their information from the second editions, so that's what I'm used to, but I'll accept the new information as it comes (after all, these are Jin Yong's characters and Jin Yong's stories, and he's the final authority on what's canon and what isn't). Some of the revisions (as in Yeung Gor/Little Dragon Girl's post-Seung Yeung activities) are great and I welcome them.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    Candide is a Luddite. He hates modern technology.

    Which is difficult to reconcile with the fact that he's a computer engineer, website designer, and web forum regular.
    And the fact that I read most of the novels in PDF...

    I'm not a Luddite, I'm a purist. I just don't get why script writers change the stories to put in their sithhouse versions. Talk about change for the worse. As a kid, like everyone here, I grew up watching those adaptations and I HATED wuxia because of them. It was only until I read the novels (as my dad and uncle suggested - they are mad fans) that I started to like wuxia.
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

    "I disapprove of what I say, but I will defend to the death my right to say it."

  15. #15
    Senior Member Yeung Gor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    I grew up with adaptations that took the bulk of their information from the second editions, so that's what I'm used to, but I'll accept the new information as it comes (after all, these are Jin Yong's characters and Jin Yong's stories, and he's the final authority on what's canon and what isn't). Some of the revisions (as in Yeung Gor/Little Dragon Girl's post-Seung Yeung activities) are great and I welcome them.
    I know some additions are good and I like them. But there are some as you have pointed out makes one wonder "Why?!!!". I won't make my final judgement until I've read all 3 revisions.

    I have another question, JY have change some of the names of the martial arts, do you know why he did that? I see why he change the names of the characters for political correctness but why the names of the moves?

    Also, according to Athena's post on changes in the new edition, Wong Yung is the one who named Yeung Gor and not Gwok Jing? That sucks.

  16. #16
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yeung Gor
    Also, according to Athena's post on changes in the new edition, Wong Yung is the one who named Yeung Gor and not Gwok Jing? That sucks.
    Yeah, I didn't like that particular revision myself...but it makes a certain amount of sense. Gwok Jing was never a person who was quick with words. It seemed out of character for him to have made such an inspired choice when it came to Yeung Gor's name. For Wong Yung, on the other hand, this is in character.

    Still, I personally preferred it the old way.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Yeung Gor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    Yeah, I didn't like that particular revision myself...but it makes a certain amount of sense. Gwok Jing was never a person who was quick with words. It seemed out of character for him to have made such an inspired choice when it came to Yeung Gor's name. For Wong Yung, on the other hand, this is in character.

    Still, I personally preferred it the old way.
    Gwok Jing is not a smart person but he has deep conviction. And he touch upon that when he named Yeung Gor. It was a highlight for him. He felt regret that he wasn't able to change Yeung Hong but he wish upon Yeung Gor by naming him so, that he can "change" unlike his father. I dont think Wong Yung has the same conviction to name Yeung Gor in that manner. That's why I don't think it make sense in that way either.

    And it really diminish the meaning of the future scene between Gwok Jing and Yeung Gor when Gwok Jing told Yeung Gor the meaning behind his name and wish Yeung Gor would change and not go down the wrong path (which he thought he was).

    I just feel the scene when Gwok Jing name Yeung Gor has very big significance in the fact it bonded the two like father and son and it shows throughout the story. Just kinda sad that it's now lost.

  18. #18
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    looking forward to hsds 4th edition. jin yong will make out a way to rescue xiao zhao.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Athena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yeung Gor
    It should be a matter of preference. For me, I think the original copy or version holds more weight. I know JY is the god, but the gospel has already been written long time ago, and I refuse the New Testatment.
    Do you mean the very first editions? Those that appeared in the newspapers? But those were bordering fantasy more than wuxia, you had monkeys walking through lava (HSDS), strange animals in LOCH, a lot of very redundant characters in Smiling Proud Wanderer, etc.

    Huang Yaoshi and Mei Chaofeng isn't the main point, Jin Yong wanted to open the window to Huang Yaoshi's soul. And he used Mei Chaofeng to reflect that. When you read about Mei Chaofeng's thoughts on her teacher, you'll learn more about Huang Yaoshi and the love thing will become very insignificant and forgotten. Because what Jin Yong wanted to accomplish was to open the window to Huang Yaoshi's soul, so that we can understand a bit more.

    Guo Jing giving Yang Guo his name was a bit out of character. Just because Yang Guo is the son of Yang Kang, does that automatically mean that Yang Guo will err like his father? Guo Jing is a forgiving man, a true gentleman would his first thought be:"Hmm, I have to think of a name that this child will remember when he errs in the future. And I hope he won't become like his father." That is a bit too calculating for someone as nice as Guo Jing.

    As the Lou Ying Shen Jian Palms to Tao Hua Luo Ying Palms was literary correction. Because the name Tao Hua Luo Ying Palms would fit better in antithetical couplet of the Peach Blossom Island.
    So huge, so hopeless, to conceive
    As these that twice befell
    Parting is all we know of heaven
    And all we need of hell.

    Emily Dickinson (1830-1886)

  20. #20
    Senior Member Yeung Gor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athena
    Do you mean the very first editions? Those that appeared in the newspapers? But those were bordering fantasy more than wuxia, you had monkeys walking through lava (HSDS), strange animals in LOCH, a lot of very redundant characters in Smiling Proud Wanderer, etc.

    Huang Yaoshi and Mei Chaofeng isn't the main point, Jin Yong wanted to open the window to Huang Yaoshi's soul. And he used Mei Chaofeng to reflect that. When you read about Mei Chaofeng's thoughts on her teacher, you'll learn more about Huang Yaoshi and the love thing will become very insignificant and forgotten. Because what Jin Yong wanted to accomplish was to open the window to Huang Yaoshi's soul, so that we can understand a bit more.

    Guo Jing giving Yang Guo his name was a bit out of character. Just because Yang Guo is the son of Yang Kang, does that automatically mean that Yang Guo will err like his father? Guo Jing is a forgiving man, a true gentleman would his first thought be:"Hmm, I have to think of a name that this child will remember when he errs in the future. And I hope he won't become like his father." That is a bit too calculating for someone as nice as Guo Jing.

    As the Lou Ying Shen Jian Palms to Tao Hua Luo Ying Palms was literary correction. Because the name Tao Hua Luo Ying Palms would fit better in antithetical couplet of the Peach Blossom Island.
    Oh Miss Athena, I had feeling you would grace your appearance in this thread.

    Interesting, I never knew the stories were once in newspapers. What I meant by original is the first edition. But I really need to get a copy of them so i can make a better judgement on this. Too bad I can't read chinese

    Thanks for explaining why JY change the names of the moves. Now I know.

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