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Thread: "The Buddhist Palm" - comparison with Hong Lung 18 Palms

  1. #61
    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exodus
    What sacrifice?
    Well firstly you have to kill off all desires to master its power to learn it. Then you will have to be enlightened. F that. What's the point of learning it then?
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

    "I disapprove of what I say, but I will defend to the death my right to say it."

  2. #62
    Senior Member Exodus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Candide
    Well firstly you have to kill off all desires to master its power to learn it. Then you will have to be enlightened. F that. What's the point of learning it then?

    learn it first and then turn to the dark side

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    den your body will collapse and you will die aww

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    Senior Member KJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CFT
    PJ, not many people went after 9Yang either, except for Wan Hak Sai and Siu Seung Tze. So 9Yang can't be that good?
    Not a lot of people knew about 9 yang. How those two even know about 9 yang is quite a mystery in itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KJ
    Not a lot of people knew about 9 yang. How those two even know about 9 yang is quite a mystery in itself.
    My theory is that they went to Shaolin to raid the Manuscript Library, maybe for Yik Gun Ging, etc. But when they got there they came across Gok Yuen and could sense his incredible internal energy. Upon further observation they found him regularly consulting a certain manuscript ... bingo!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Athena
    The speed of South Emperor reverend Yideng was very impressive (if not equally or perhaps even better than Dongfang Bubai?). And Guo Jing thought that the Yiyang Finger of reverend Yideng would certainly be an asset in a battle. Speed has never been a problem for the Greats in my opinion, but are they as fast as Xiao Longnu (who is the fastest of everyone). I always believe that Xiao Longnu is better in speed than Dongfang Bubai.
    Thanks, Athena. So my memory was right then. Anyway, I think my opinion is not much different from you.

    To others, I think, when JY wrote XAJH, he want to create a novel with all characters playing some kind of political roles, you know. Shaolin Abbot is no different. If I remember correctly, this abbot was viewed by JY as a head of a powerful/big political party which every of his move has to be very careful and proper. For example, when YBQ and another bad powerful guy (I forget his name) try to unify the 5 sword mountain schools (sorry if I use a crappy name), politically this will create a new big powerful party (beside Shaolin and Wudang) that might cause trouble to Shaolin and Wudang. I cannot conclude whether, in the deepest of their mind, they (Shaolin/Wudang "party") concern whether the whole wu lin will get into trouble or not...you know, politicians always talk about their concern for the good of the whole country most (if not all) the time, right? To prevent this to happen, Shaolin abbot and Wudang leader went to see LHC and convince him to interfere the situation (they cannot do it directly because of their "positions") since they believe that at least, if LHC is the leader, he will not be their enemy (or LHC might be easier to be controlled by them, technically speaking).

    The whole of my talk is that I'm pretty sure that JY view this abbot as a politician. As you know there are many types of politician. YBQ who might look nice outside but inside is very ambitious and cunning. However, YBQ is a leader of somewhat lesser party and want to go bigger. I wonder, what YBQ look like for the reader's eyes, if he is a leader of a big/powerful party and the whole wu lin....in this case, he might not show his true color easily (who know...he might "act" exactly the same way as the Shaolin abbot if YBQ replace the abbot position in the story). What I try to say is that it is hard to conclude the Shaolin abbot's level of enlightenment especially when I view him as a politician (as most of characters in XAJH).
    Last edited by Wu Xing; 09-15-05 at 02:16 PM.

  7. #67
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    I haven't read the comics that the Buddhist Palm originated from, but after watching the 1982 movie

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083699/

    and the 1992 tvb series (hilarious series)

    http://www.bluecrys.com/rev_buddhist.html

    I have to say that the Buddhist Palm is much stronger than anything found in the JY universe. The 9th move Wrath of the Ten Thousand Buddhas is as strong as an aerial bombardment.

    The 10th move, which is only found in the TV series, can make the user fly into space, shake the earth and make volcanoes active...

    I highly recommend these "old school" movies and TV series, very entertaining.

    I don't like the modern series as much, even serials that are based on some of my favorite novels are boring. I tried to watch the newest Dagger Li serial, and found AH FEI to be very girly instead of a cold young man who grew up in the wilds. Li XunHuan himself is a pretty boy, hardly the melancholic middle-aged drunkard from the novel.

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    I remember reading about buddist palm is far more begining era than 18 subduing dragon palm
    Which is created by the buddha himself to fight evil in era of devil and chao the skills has 9 stance and 9 god weapon bestowed upon the 8 buddha disciples and the last stance is for ppl who can complete all 8 stance unfortunately 8 buddha disciples all doesnt had those requirement,
    Later then it resurfaced in tang dynasty used by li shi min he only know 4 stance of buddha palm and found the tang dynasty,after this i remember that some guy name long ge er/little dragon that manages to mastered 9 stance and even acquired the 9 god weapon and bring peace to the land after twng dynasty was overthrown,and the next user is long jiu zhou i dunno how deep his understanding but i remember he using 8 stance,after the story goes by
    9 stance of buddha palm said was lost for centuries and shaolin keep 4 stances and later derived became 4 jianbo of shaolin kungfu based on bodhidharma teaching maybe 1 of them is yi jinjing,and 1 stances is keep by tibetian monastery and they derived to sumthing called whatccamacallit sutra(sry i frgot).also being said that the 9 stances transcrib still in india the original place this skill was created.
    So i think if compared to 18 dragon palm that will be way to out of league because buddha palm is something like the origin of kungfu

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    Back in the 90's, there was a Jademan comic (Wong Yuk-long's company) in English translation called The Force of Buddha's Palm, and it was only much later that I figured out it was a complete rip off of Gu Long's Legendary Twins. However, I'm wondering if anyone knows what the Buddha's palm had to do with the series at all. As far as I know, the Buddhist palm wasn't a part of the Legendary Twins. If I remember it correctly it was used in much the same over-the-top way in the comics as it was in Kung Fu Hustle.

    As a total aside, if you haven't seen the fruit named Buddha's hand before, you might find it interesting.
    Last edited by AlamoRemebered; 05-12-14 at 09:19 PM.

  10. #70
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    One of the protagonists in the Jademan comic was Long Jiu Zhou (Nine Continents), who was the descendent of Long Jian Fei.

  11. #71
    Senior Member Ian Liew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlamoRemebered View Post
    Back in the 90's, there was a Jademan comic (Wong Yuk-long's company) in English translation called The Force of Buddha's Palm, and it was only much later that I figured out it was a complete rip off of Gu Long's Legendary Twins. However, I'm wondering if anyone knows what the Buddha's palm had to do with the series at all. As far as I know, the Buddhist palm wasn't a part of the Legendary Twins. If I remember it correctly it was used in much the same over-the-top way in the comics as it was in Kung Fu Hustle.

    As a total aside, if you haven't seen the fruit named Buddha's hand before, you might find it interesting.
    The Buddha's Palm was one of Jademan's series which shamelessly plagiarised a lot of wuxia story plots. While Drunken Fist, Dragon Gate and Hero in China had their own main plot holding things together (Hero wasn't as long as the other three, I think, so it wasn't really a problem) Buddha's Palm borrowed heavily from many other stories. The Legendary Twins arc was just one example.

    I never really followed the early Buddha's Palm (I kind of started at Legendary Twins too, although I did have a few older issues here and there). If I'm not mistaken, Buddha's Palm starts off with Long Jianfei's story, then moves on to his son Long Jiuzhou. Some of the oldest BP comics I have place Long Jiuzhou in the main plot of HSDS, with Long as Zhang Wuji. I assume this means that sometime after the end of Long Jianfei's story, he meets some girl from the demon cult, swears brotherhood with some master with a dragon sabre, and then comes back and dies with his wife, leaving Jiuzhou in the care of his friends or something.

    The HSDS characters take part in several adventures here and there - I remember one issue with Long Jiuzhou fighting some enemy called Yin Feng Laozu, and Yang Xiao was fighting at his side. His love interest in those days was a girl called Xiao Shuang, who was probably Zhao Min's character. I then had an issue in which his arch-enemy (who was around for quite a while, but always seemed a bit insane here and there. In this issue, though, he was dead serious) called Shanjun had gone on a rampage in Bright Moon Peak, and Jiu Zhou, Yang Xiao and Xiao Shuang were facing Shanjun. Iron Crown Priest and Shuo Bude were lying dead on the floor. Shanjun beats Jiuzhou unconscious, and kills Xiao Shuang when she tries to stop him delivering the killing blow to him. Jiu Zhou wakes up, and tearfully (and ill-advisedly) cradles Xiao Shuang as Shanjun kills off Yang Xiao too.. both opponents then power up for the final battle.

    Legendary Twins places Long Jiuzhou in Yan Nantian's role, crippled by the five villains, while the twin sons of his sworn brother are raised by the Flower Palace and Villain's Valley respectively. The story resolves normally, and he kills off Jiang Qin at the end really satisfyingly. Jiang Qin's accomplice from Persia, Iron Boy, however, sets a trap for him and has a Xiao Shuang lookalike girl to get close to Jiuzhou, and after gaining his trust over time, sleeps with him. Her entire body has been poisoned with an extreme Yin energy, though, and Jiuzhou loses a large portion of his power, and will not regain it unless he can sleep with a girl with extreme Yang energy. Funnily enough, at that time, Xiao Zhao, being ruler of the Ming Cult in Persia and having trained intensively in the sacred fire martial arts, sends Sagittarius Fawang to China to request his help in subduing the impending rebellion by Libra and five other Fawang. Apparently Cancer and Pisces Fawang had already been murdered by Scorpio and Gemini Fawang while trying to reach Long Jiuzhou for help. By the time Jiuzhou gets to Persia, however the coup has taken place, and XiaoZhao has been badly wounded and taken prisoner. Libra's regime proves to be ruthless and evil, and Aquarius Fawang (who, together with Virgo Fawang, had stood idly by as Xiao Xhao was beaten because they were unsure if Libra's accusations were true or not) dies trying to assassinate him. Jiuzhou, together with Sagittarius, Aries and Virgo then spring Xiao Zhao out, and the three Fawang sacrifice themselves so that Jiuzhou and Xiao Zhao can escape and fall over a cliff. Jiuzhou finally gets quality time alone with Xiao Zhao, who has just the method to cure his Yin energy problem. They return with a vengeance, and recruiting a couple of allies in one of the Sacred Maidens (the only one who had survived by then) and one of Gemini's twin sons, manage to kill off Libra and all the evil Fawangs. Iron Boy loses an arm, but flees and is rescued by a masked girl who uses Nine Yin Claws. Jiuzhou leaves Xiao Zhao secure in her position of ruler of the weakened (if not crippled) Ming Cult and pursues Iron Boy.

    The story went on and on, Iron Boy is finally killed at the end of the next arc (the Heavenly Way arc), but one of the antagonists, Mr Moon, escapes into the next arc. The Heavenly Way arc also introduces two new disciples for Jiuzhou - the burly Yanzhen and the young lad Buping, but claims the life of Tie Xinlan. The next arc is that of the "Buddha's Palm retrieval", because Jiuzhou used the 10th Palm, causing untold deaths (pretty much the entire Heavenly Way sect), and this monk sends his female disciple Shalei to kill Jiuzhou, ensuring that nobody outside their sect knows the Buddha's Palm. Shalei goes on a rampage and kills anyone who knows Buddha's Palm, and Jiuzhou's young disciple Buping, and Murong Nine are killed by Shalei. Little Fish loses his martial arts, but slowly works on retraining it. Working with Shalei's ex boyfriend Ali Baba, they manage to defeat the monk, Shalei and Mr Moon (who was working with Shalei), but lose Ali Baba and Hua Wuque, who dies with Mr Moon in revenge for Tie Xinlan's death. Shalei and Ali Baba also die together when Jiuzhou beats her 9th Palm with his 8th, and a dying Ali holds her close to him as they burn, preventing her from escaping.

    Jiuzhou, Yanzhen and Little Fish now find themselves up against the resurrected undead Cao Cao, and gain a new ally in Tianwei, whose mastery of the Tianjue Dimie Wushuang Shengong puts him second only to Jiuzhou in terms of raw power. His arrogance is tamed and he becomes infinitely more humble when all his followers are killed by Cao Cao while protecting his escape after he loses, and later on, when he sees the weaker Yanzhen and even weaker Little Fish throwing everything they have at Cao Cao while he's quaking with fear. Little Fish dies at Cao Cao's hands, but Jiuzhou, Yanzhen and Tianwei manage to kill off Cao Cao.

    .. and so on.. every arc brings in new allies (such as the woman with the dartgun on her wrist - she became a romantic interest for Jiuzhou during Cao Cao's arc, then left after Cao Cao died, and then returned in a later arc against the enemy called Red Sun or something, the girl disciple of the evil eunuch with those deadly flying beads, the guy with iron armour who dies horribly against the evil eunuch) and new villains, and usually at least one villain will survive as a loose end to force you to read the next arc. I think there were a couple more arcs I followed after that, but it became too confusing for me, but it seems that Yanzhen and Tianwei followed Jiuzhou around for quite a long time after that, before they were defeated by this weird entity which could possess people. By then I had stopped reading Buddha's Palm and only bought the odd copy here and there out of curiosity. That issue with the shadow being which possessed Jiuzhou's ally North Star, and then attacked and beat Tianwei and Yanzhen kind of defied belief, and sort of confirmed that it wasn't a series I would want to continue reading anymore.
    Last edited by Ian Liew; 05-13-14 at 11:45 AM.

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    This is everything but the bathroom sink. Were comic book plots really that convoluted and borrowed so freely from other sources. I am surprised no one got done for copyright infringement.

  13. #73
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandred Skavenslayer View Post
    This is everything but the bathroom sink. Were comic book plots really that convoluted and borrowed so freely from other sources. I am surprised no one got done for copyright infringement.
    Until recent years, copyright law in Asia was played loose and fast. It'd be harder to get away with it today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Liew View Post
    The Buddha's Palm was one of Jademan's series which shamelessly plagiarised a lot of wuxia story plots. While Drunken Fist, Dragon Gate and Hero in China had their own main plot holding things together (Hero wasn't as long as the other three, I think, so it wasn't really a problem) Buddha's Palm borrowed heavily from many other stories. The Legendary Twins arc was just one example.
    Wow! You got a lot more of the comic book than we got in English in the US. I think there were like 55 total issues published, but as a kid I only got about the first 25 or so (the one comic book store in the rural area where I lived as a kid closed), which was pretty much most of the Legendary Siblings arc. I really appreciate the long summary you wrote! It will take me some time to digest it all!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandred Skavenslayer View Post
    This is everything but the bathroom sink. Were comic book plots really that convoluted and borrowed so freely from other sources. I am surprised no one got done for copyright infringement.
    Maybe it was sort of karmic retribution but the guy writing/publishing and I guess plagiarizing, Wong Yuk-long, went to prison for a few years for forgery in 1997. I have no idea what he was forging, but he then got out and is back to making comics.

  15. #75
    Senior Member Ian Liew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlamoRemebered View Post
    Wow! You got a lot more of the comic book than we got in English in the US. I think there were like 55 total issues published, but as a kid I only got about the first 25 or so (the one comic book store in the rural area where I lived as a kid closed), which was pretty much most of the Legendary Siblings arc. I really appreciate the long summary you wrote! It will take me some time to digest it all!
    Yeah, I read the Hong Kong issues in Chinese. I saw the Jademan US versions, and frankly I thought they were really cool too. I had only followed Buddha's Palm and Drunken Fist, so having the chance to read a bit about Hero and Dragon Tiger Gate was quite welcome. I didn't quite finish the Jademan series in English as I quickly got bored of Dragon Tiger Gate and Hero, while the Buddha's Palm and Drunken Fist were about 100 or so issues older than the Chinese versions, and I had read them already. Frankly, Drunken Fist kind of missed the best part and started the series with Wang Wuji's son, just after the climatic battle at the Potara Palace which saw Wang Wuji defeated by Xiao Jianxian, so it always felt a bit anti-climatic. Buddha's Palm was probably the most fun of the four English titles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    It never appeared in any of Jin Yong or Gu Long's novels (not that I know of anyway), but the "Buddhist Palm" (Yu Loi Sun Jeung) is almost as much a part of wuxia iconography as the Hong Lung 18 Palms. It's probably been featured in dozens of wuxia movies/series, including Stephen Chow's wuxia spoof KUNG FU HUSTLE. What is the origin story of this palm technique? Did it actually ever appear in any wuxia novels?
    I've learned a lot by reading the stuff in this thread, but I am not sure if anyone has come up with a consensus answer to this part of the thread starting question. Maybe I can't see the "forest for the trees", but is the consensus that the first appearance was in this movie in 1964:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdOZvGwV1PM (The special effects are pretty epic)
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3290630

    I can't figure out if it is based on any particular novel.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlamoRemebered View Post
    I've learned a lot by reading the stuff in this thread, but I am not sure if anyone has come up with a consensus answer to this part of the thread starting question. Maybe I can't see the "forest for the trees", but is the consensus that the first appearance was in this movie in 1964
    My grandmother, who was born during the 1920s and passed away in 2003, used to always joke about using the Buddhist Palm on my grandpa when she was annoyed at him, so I always figured that it was from her time.

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