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Thread: "The Buddhist Palm" - comparison with Hong Lung 18 Palms

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default "The Buddhist Palm" - comparison with Hong Lung 18 Palms

    It never appeared in any of Jin Yong or Gu Long's novels (not that I know of anyway), but the "Buddhist Palm" (Yu Loi Sun Jeung) is almost as much a part of wuxia iconography as the Hong Lung 18 Palms. It's probably been featured in dozens of wuxia movies/series, including Stephen Chow's wuxia spoof KUNG FU HUSTLE. What is the origin story of this palm technique? Did it actually ever appear in any wuxia novels? It seems to be a very powerful yang-type attack...similar to the Hong Lung 18 Palms. How does it compare to the Hong Lung 18 Palms?

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    Senior Member HuangYushi's Avatar
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    The only Rulai in JY novels is found in Book/Sword. The 3rd Master of the Red Flower Society, Zhao Banshan, was nicknamed Qianshou Rulai (Thousand-Armed Buddha) for his ability to throw numerous projectiles in rapid succession. Doesn't say anywhere if Zhao Banshan knew the Buddha Palms, though.
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    Ken, you mean the buddha palm vs sky foot? if i remember correctly (possibly that's 30 yrs back), there are eight levels of the palm? the instructions are inscribed on the urns? sorry that's all i can remember. it is definitely more myth than fiction.

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    Senior Member Yang Guo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wkeej
    Ken, you mean the buddha palm vs sky foot? if i remember correctly (possibly that's 30 yrs back), there are eight levels of the palm? the instructions are inscribed on the urns? sorry that's all i can remember. it is definitely more myth than fiction.
    9th stance TEN THOUSAND BUDDHAS UNITE

    Wasn't it created by TV producers of the black and white days?

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    Senior Member Yeung Gor's Avatar
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    I believe there is a 10th stance, it was display in the most recent adaptation.

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    Senior Member i_fotted's Avatar
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    Ever seen the Andy Lau and Yuen Wah version? So hilarious.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by i_fotted
    Ever seen the Andy Lau and Yuen Wah version? So hilarious.....
    You mean the movie one? Yeah...That was really funny... Btw is there a novel for Ru Lai shen zhang? I would really like to read it... too bad i don't know who's the author or if there is even a novel available...

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    Senior Member Bai Qi44's Avatar
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    Yeah, there is a novel on this story. That's why that black and white movie of the Buddha's Palm was made. I've never read this novel, but somehow, I get the feeling it's a much more powerful martial arts than 18 dragon palms.... or maybe the tv/movie adaptations just influenced me too much.
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    Junior Member lostchild's Avatar
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    I saw the re-run of the orginal B/W movie made back in the 60's or 70's. I am not sure if it is from a novel, I don't remember seeing any wuxia novel on that subject. The buddha palms seem more a comic books thing. It was features in many comic series. There is also a TV series (in color) made by TVB on it. It wasn't a normal series if I remember correctly. It was shown as part of their nightly entertainment program for a short period of time in the 80's, like a special mini-series.

    The original has 9 stances, but later on they keep adding more and more in comic books to one up the previous version. I guess if it is compared to HL18P, the Buddha Palms would be better. Buddha Palms was the best martial art in the world according to the Buddha Palms story, and HL18P is at best even to the other martial arts of the 4 greats according to JY.

    It has been a long time so I may not remember correctly, but I think in the original movie, buddha palm was the martial art used by the evil god of firey cloud. He is ranked number 1 in martial arts. There is like a little poem to list the top martial artists, it went like "One god, two ghost, three human..." The ghost's martial art is the crippled sky foot. The movie is about the student of the god and his friends fight against the ghost's domination of world after the god died.

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    Senior Member Temujin's Avatar
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    There's a TV adaptation back in the 80s by the name of 'Buddha's Palm,' it was a short series like only 3-5 episodes I think. Not sure which TV station produced it though, it could be Taiwan or Singapore.
    Last edited by Temujin; 09-14-05 at 12:13 PM.
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    My impression of Buddha's Palm has always been that it's on the same level as 9Ying and 9Yang.

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    Abbot Fang Zheng of XAJH knew 'Qian Shou Ru Lai Zhang'. It was quite powerful coupled with Yijinjing.
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    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    Shaolin's abbot Fangzhen in XAJH practiced Qian Shou Rulai Zhang, Palm of the Buddha With a Thousand Hands.

    EDIT: Blah, blissie beat me to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing
    EDIT: Blah, blissie beat me to it.


    You know what I've been thinking? People only underrate the fighters in XAJH because of Deterioration Theory. All evidence in the actual book points to XAJH having ridiculously powerful fighters who perform feats that were comparable to Trilogy and DGSD elites. Yet people just keep clinging so dearly to Deterioration Theory that they become totally blind to the facts.

    Was there any REAL, SUBSTANTIAL evidence that Fang Zheng's Yijinjing wasn't as powerful as the DGSD equivalent? Not really ... the only argument I ever hear is because XAJH occurred X-hundred years after DGSD. Therefore, Yijinjing deteriorated and that version isn't as good.

    Think about it though, the XAJH Yijinjing was so pure and powerful that Ren Woxing's Star Absorbing Stance couldn't absorb qi from the Abbot. Star Absorbing Stance was a derivative of Beiming. To have an internal energy style strong enough to withstand Beiming/Star Absorbing is pretty incredible to me.
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    I agree. People need to let go of the Deterioration Theory.

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    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bliss
    Was there any REAL, SUBSTANTIAL evidence that Fang Zheng's Yijinjing wasn't as powerful as the DGSD equivalent? Not really ... the only argument I ever hear is because XAJH occurred X-hundred years after DGSD. Therefore, Yijinjing deteriorated and that version isn't as good.

    Heh, and the other argument is that since anyone could learn the YJJ in XAJH, it must be therefore weaker. I personally don't see how that follows but whatever floats their boat.

    As well, the Abbot was stronger than RWX. And RWX was a monster in XAJH.
    Last edited by ChronoReverse; 09-14-05 at 02:45 PM.

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    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    RE Bliss:

    I've been saying that for a long while though, but the thing is this (and to an extent, I can understand/agree with it):

    If we accept that RWX/LHC/FZ are about the level of the Trilogy Greats...

    ....then that puts Dong Fang Bu Bai WAY the hell ahead of the likes of Xiao Feng, Guo Jing, etc. etc. etc., and make KHBD easily the most powerful single skill in the JY universe.

    And people just can't (understandably) see that as being true.

    This is more of an English speaking board thing, though; in a lot of the Chinese boards that I've seen, and heard my friends talking about, the idea that DFBB=number one fighter in JY universe is a lot more accepted/widespread than here.
    Last edited by Ren Wo Xing; 09-14-05 at 03:15 PM.

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bliss
    the only argument I ever hear is because XAJH occurred X-hundred years after DGSD. Therefore, Yijinjing deteriorated and that version isn't as good.
    Some things to consider:

    1. At least one of the elite martial artists in DGSD was desparately seeking the YJJ arts, indicating the martial arts is at a supreme level. Is there any such desire to master it in XAJH?

    2. The same guy who desparately desired YJJ in DGSD could not master it because of its difficulty. This person is capable of understanding many other supreme arts. Did anyone in XAJH have trouble learning YJJ?

    3. Learning only a fraction of YJJ in DGSD, coupled with poison, boosted a guy's internal energy from having next to nothing to matching that of the highest level in a time generally considered the peak of martial arts. Can learning a portion of YJJ in XAJH achieve this?

    Think about it though, the XAJH Yijinjing was so pure and powerful that Ren Woxing's Star Absorbing Stance couldn't absorb qi from the Abbot. Star Absorbing Stance was a derivative of Beiming. To have an internal energy style strong enough to withstand Beiming/Star Absorbing is pretty incredible to me.
    Ren Woxing's Xixin technique is inferior to the Northern Ocean in DGSD.

    All evidence in the actual book points to XAJH having ridiculously powerful fighters who perform feats that were comparable to Trilogy and DGSD elites
    Yeah, like Linghu Chong being helpless if he ever drops his sword.
    Last edited by PJ; 09-14-05 at 03:31 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    Some things to consider:

    1. At least one of the elite martial artists in DGSD was desparately seeking the YJJ arts, indicating the martial arts is at a supreme level. Is there any such desire to master it in XAJH?
    This is a pretty weak point ... you can't really argue AGAINST the storyline to use that as an example. Pixie Jianfa had just shaken the martial arts world, so everyone was after that. Anyway, how do you know there weren't many people seeking it? There was no indication for or against either way.

    Also, Yijinjing was probably only so coveted in DGSD because it was one of the "missing" martial arts in the Xiao Yao library. Because of this knowledge, Ah Zhu went after it, Kiu MorZhi went after it, etc ...

    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    2. The same guy who desparately desired YJJ in DGSD could not master it because of its difficulty. This person is capable of understanding many other supreme arts. Did anyone in XAJH have trouble learning YJJ?
    Only 2 people learned it ... Abbot Fang Zheng and Linghu Chong. Not even Fang Zheng's younger martial brother had the fortune to. The Abbout commented that his Buddhism hadn't quite reached a high enough level. This Abbot was one of the more Enlightened monks of Shaolin in JY. After DGSD, Shaolin might have started to follow Sweeper's words and encourage Enlightenment before attempting skills such as Yijinjing. We know Kiumorzhi failed miserably because his heart just wasn't in the right place.

    Along the same lines, Linghu Chong didn't even KNOW it was Yijinjing when he learned it. He thought it was some ordinary internal energy methods given to him by Feng Qingyang. That way, he didn't have that obsessive need to learn and master it, thus allowing him to succeed without hitches. This follows along the same philosophies that Sweeper preached.

    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    3. Learning only a fraction of YJJ in DGSD, coupled with poison, boosted a guy's internal energy from having next to nothing to matching that of the highest level in a time generally considered the peak of martial arts. Can learning a portion of YJJ in XAJH achieve this?
    We never get to see Linghu Chong in action with his DGSD + Star Absorbing + YJJ. He was handicapped throughout the entire novel. We do know that Abbot Fang Zheng was probably #2 or #3 in XAJH from just YJJ + Shaolin Arts (behind DFBB and FQY).

    You Tanzhi became extremely powerful from YJJ BECAUSE of the mixing with the ice poison. It was a freak accident that accelerated him tremendously, like ZWJ with the bag.

    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    Ren Woxing's Xixin technique is inferior to the Northern Ocean in DGSD.
    Inferior in that it couldn't really control the absorbed qi correctly. It still allowed the user to completely absorb his victim's internal energy. But still, YJJ being so pure and powerful that it could resist qi absorption? Still pretty impressive.
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    Senior Member Temujin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing
    If we accept that RWX/LHC/FZ are about the level of the Trilogy Greats...

    ....then that puts Dong Fang Bu Bai WAY the hell ahead of the likes of Xiao Feng, Guo Jing, etc. etc. etc., and make KHBD easily the most powerful single skill in the JY universe.
    I have always been a believer that DFBB is on a league of his own, perhaps not as powerful and mighty as SM & SPT, but judging from how easily and effortlessly DFBB dismantled the four pugilists, DFBB should be approximately at the same league of WYZ/TSTL/LSQ, if not slightly better.

    But Alas, no one here think that way, mostly due to the deteriotion theory.
    Last edited by Temujin; 09-14-05 at 05:01 PM.
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