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Thread: Did the orthdox sect leaders feel any remorse over CCS/YSS's suicides?

  1. #1
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default Did the orthdox sect leaders feel any remorse over CCS/YSS's suicides?

    It's no secret that the members of the Five Orthodox Sects in HSDS (excluding the Mo Dong Sect) were a group of self-serving hypocrites who were willing to be quite ruthless in the pursuit of their ambitions (namely, the Dragon Sabre), but even so, they didn't seem to be utterly devoid of human decency (none of them were like Sing Kwun). After Cheung Chui San and Yan So So committed suicide, leaving ten-year old Cheung Mo Gei an orphan, did any of the orthodox sect members feel any remorse or regret? As ruthless as they could be, I don't think any of them were happy with themselves for having made an orphan out of a child.

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    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    I think they just went "Oh, bugger!" as they saw the orphan ZWJ crying over his parents' dead bodies, but then the Dragon Slaying Sabre knocked any remorse out of their heads. There was never any apology or regret afterwards.
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

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    But, at least, they stopped bugging Wudang and ZWJ for his step father and the Dragon Slaying Sabre since then...at least in an obvious way. It is true that some of them still want the sabre but they have to go more on a hidden way to keep their faces.

    I think they feel regret or, at least, uncomfortable in this incident (to force ZWJ's parents suicided)...being an enemy of Wudang is not fun. But they might put their blames on ZWJ's mother's side.

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    i think they are shocked to say anything. moreover, they can't wait to leave as YSS demanded ZWJ to remember them as murderers.

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    Senior Member yittz's Avatar
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    They definitely didn't expect that to happen. Their reaction was of total shock and some may have remorse for ZWJ.

    Overall, I think they felt it's a pity that ZCS chose to commit suicide instead of revealing the whereabouts of a 'Wulin most wanted', pity for ZCS, for his martial brothers and Z3F.

    They regret that they didnt succeed what they came from, but instead brought death and caused ophanage. If they knew this was gonna be the outcome, they would not have bothered.

    All the sects that attended Wudang, 'good' and bad must have had confused and mixed feelings when they left. Anger, shock, regret, remorse, and probably even some shame.

    And remember they still had ZWJ to get the whereabouts. So parent's death must have had quite a big impact on them, well at least Shaolin, once Shaolin's gone, who's willing to suffer the rage of Wudang?

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    Senior Member HuangYushi's Avatar
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    Some excerpts from HSDS, 2nd edition:

    Chapter 10

    When Kong Zhi challenged Zhang Sanfeng to a fight:

    Loud applause broke out immediately among the visitors in the hall. As a pugilist with almost seventy years of fame, Zhang Sanfeng had outlived all the people whom he had once fought. Therefore, no one really knew how good his skills were, except for the legends that were widely-circulated in the martial arts circle. Furthermore, no one, except his seven disciples, had ever witnessed a display of his skills. But the impressive reputation of the Seven Warriors of Wudang was more than sufficient to indicate the extent of their master's accomplishments in the pugilistic arts. Thus, when the visitors heard Kong Zhi throwing a public challenge at Zhang Sanfeng, they became very excited. After all, if they could witness a duel between the top pugilists of that era, their trips would not be in vain.


    After both Zhang Cuishan and Yin Susu were dead:

    Despite the immensity of his sorrow and pain, little Wuji did not cry. Instead, he glared at Kong Wen and asked, "You killed my mother, did you not? Why did you kill my mother?" The double-tragedy that the boy had experienced in such a short time was too much even for someone of Kong Wen's stature. He was so shaken that he took a step backwards and answered, "No, not me. She ... she killed herself."

    Kong Wen cleared his throat and said, "Mr Zhang, this turn of events ... er, umm, ... well, we really did not expect this to happen. Zhang-wuxia and his wife have both committed suicide, so the past can no longer be investigated. We will take our leave now." When he pressed his palms together in a gesture of farewell, Zhang Sanfeng responded with a cold bow and said, "Forgive us for not seeing you out." The monks of Shaolin stood up and left.

    The other visitors found their earlier appetites for trouble fading fast, so they too took their leave from Zhang Sanfeng. Walking out, they thought: "Well, we have gotten ourselves into a big mess today. The Wudang Clan will certainly not allow this matter to pass by just like that. There is going to be no end to our troubles in the days to come."

    The disciples of the E-mei Clan were the last guests to leave. ... ... Put off [by Ji Xiaofu's attempt to comfort Zhang Wuji by giving him a necklace], Jing Xuan said, "Sister Ji, why are you talking so much with the child? Let us go!"

    Chapter 11

    After [Zhang Cuishan] committed suicide, members of renowned and upright organisations often spoke of the man in this manner: "He was an outstanding young warrior who took one wrong step and became involved with a heretical witch. As a result, he died in personal ruin and shame, and brought humiliation to the Wudang Clan."


    So, did the orthdox sect leaders feel any remorse over CCS/YSS's suicides?

    • Shaolin's Kong Wen was shaken. He did not expect the suicides to happen, so he did not really know how to respond to the situation in a graceful manner, other than to beat a hasty exit.
    • The other visitors (who had been excited enough to applaud earlier, as if the proceedings were a sideshow or something) were more concerned about themselves, the mess they had gotten into and the endless troubles that they might face from Wudang in the days to come.
    • E-mei were the last to leave, but all Jing Xuan said was a curt "Let us go!". There was no appreciation for what Ji Xiaofu was trying to do for Zhang Wuji. Neither was there any message of condolence whatsoever, which is almost a double-standard, considering the effort that E-mei had put into preparing a hand-embroidered "birthday robe" for Zhang Sanfeng.
    • The members of renowned and upright organisations spoke about the double-suicides as judgemental third parties, without appearing to consider their roles in it.


    Conclusion: The members of the orthodox sect did not appear to feel any remorse over the suicides, so their leaders probably felt the same as well. No remorse, not even from the shaken Kong Wen.
    Last edited by HuangYushi; 09-16-05 at 06:58 AM.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member Zhuge Liang's Avatar
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    I think that they did not expect such a violent and heroic / stubborn response from the couple as in their eyes they were evil.

    Once they died i think they major embarassment set in as the perceived evil couple stood up to them and took their own lives, whilst the so-called righteous clans who came to congratulate ZSF's birthday had now orphaned a child and thus looked bad (some of them had no righteous excuse to even be looking for Golden Lion).

    Given the child is the only one left i think they all knew that there was nothing more to be gained and the longer they stayed the more they would be implicated.

    When Spider later asked about the couple's status it seemed like the righteous clans had brainwashed themselves into thinking that the couple killed themselves to pay for their crimes.
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