Bridging the gap between LOCH & SPW with comparisons of Undefeated East & Dragon Girl

[PJ]

Hi,

Athena recently revealed a remark by Linghu Chong, where he thinks Dongfang Bubai's advantage is pretty much limited to his/her speed; it has little to do with high internal energy or earth-shattering technique. Regarding this I have some questions:

-How long did the combat last between Dongfang and 4 warriors?

-is the description of Dongfang's speed more impressive than Xiao Long Nu's, in your humble opinion?

-The way Dongfang handled the 4 warriors, is it similar to the way Xiao Long Nu handled the 4 warriors in ROCH?

It seems Dongfang and Xiaolongnu may be in the same boat, after all. Both surprise opponents with their insanne speed. I believe Dongfang has higher internal energy though.

in Dragon Girl's case, she couldn't hold off the 4 warriors for long, because after all Golden Wheel Monk's internal energy is much greater while the other warriors probably still had more energy compared to her. I wonder if Dongfang would have trouble with the 4 warriors after a while?

Understanding the martial arts of Dongfang and Dragon Girl may be the key to bridging the gap between ROCH and SPW.

Please discuss.

[Faustus1982]

Bearing in mind that DFBB was using a 1 inch long needle, while XLN was using twin swords...

[Wu Xing]

If you want some serious analysis, I think we (or at least I) need someone to put an English translation of the relevant portions from both novels (ROCH and XAJH) to see the performance of these 2 characters (in various occasion if possible). I say this because I've read the novel translation long times ago and forget most of the fighting details especially the one by XLN and DFBB since they are not my favorite (i.e., I didn't reread it a lot in the old days and I only have the 1st ed. DGSD translation with me right now).

Also, some portions from LOCH/ROCH/XAJH by different characters would be very helpful since the skill XLN and DFBB in comparison are very relative to other fighters in their times.

This means, at this point, I really cannot give my opinion since my details of these 2 persons are not very clear enough for comparison.

[yittz]

Bearing in mind that DFBB was using a 1 inch long needle, while XLN was using twin swords...

Yes, a needle isn't intimidating compared to twin swords. But also keep in mind, that it is said that a small object (ie needle) allows greater focus of internal energy, and the needle would be easier to power up to a certain speed than twin swords.

Did XLN sword actually collide with her opponent's weapons? You'd think against the fighters she met on QZ, her sword would have been knocked from her grip.

[duguxiaojing]

I think there should be a huge diffrence between the two. XLN had incredible speed but her "real" martial arts were far behind GWM and even the rest of the mercenaries
别说真实武功仍与法王相差甚远，即令潇湘子等人也是强胜于她
As the previous poster mentioned DFBB used a needle that was not even an inch long light enought to be carried by wind and float on water, yet he could still deflect LHC's sword. His martial arts was said to be extremely high beyond comprehension. I think thats the diffrence. XLN was pure speed while DFBB actually possed powerful martial arts.
东方不败手中这枚绣花针长不逾寸，几乎是风吹得起
，落水不沉，竟能拨得令狐冲的长剑直荡了开去，武功之高，当真不可思议

Thats how i see it anyways . I remember kenny(?) in the crazy LOCHvsDGSD thread(now sticky)brought up a good point about how highest martial arts may only mean thats its powerful in that generation.

[cybero]

What 4 people was xiao long nu fighting?

[PJ]

Also, some portions from LOCH/ROCH/XAJH by different characters would be very helpful since the skill XLN and DFBB in comparison are very relative to other fighters in their times.

Well, we're not THERE yet. The purpose of this topic is to GET THERE by comparing Dragon Girl and Dongfang, so that we can compare the rest of the characters. But I suppose we can go the other way around if it's easier.

I think there should be a huge diffrence between the two.

I'm not so convinced yet.

XLN had incredible speed but her "real" martial arts were far behind GWM and even the rest of the mercenaries
别说真实武功仍与法王相差甚远，即令潇湘子等人也是强胜于她

That's right. Even though any of the 4 warriors' martial arts is higher than Xiaolongnu, she still managed to gain upper hand in the beginning, due to her unheard-of speed. I suspect that may be the same deal with Dongfang.

As the previous poster mentioned DFBB used a needle that was not even an inch long light enought to be carried by wind and float on water, yet he could still deflect LHC's sword. His martial arts was said to be extremely high beyond comprehension. I think thats the diffrence. XLN was pure speed while DFBB actually possed powerful martial arts.
东方不败手中这枚绣花针长不逾寸，几乎是风吹得起
，落水不沉，竟能拨得令狐冲的长剑直荡了开去，武功之高，当真不可思议

Yes, for this description I do think Dongfang should be better than Xiaolongnu all around. But please keep in mind, Linghu Chong provides us that he doesn't think highly of Dongfang's internal energy or techniques. It was basically the incredible speed that gained him the favorable situation. Same with Xiaolongnu: it was the speed in both cases. Dragon Girl basically owned Golden Wheel Monk until the other 3 warriors joined in. She even managed to injure GWM with her double-wielded sword.

[Wu Xing]

Well, we're not THERE yet. The purpose of this topic is to GET THERE by comparing Dragon Girl and Dongfang, so that we can compare the rest of the characters. But I suppose we can go the other way around if it's easier.

I understand. My point is that Mr. A's speed/power probably looks so fast/powerful for Mr. B but, for Mr. C, he (Mr. C) might think Mr. A is pretty slow/weak. It is all relative. Also, another reason I ask if anyone can put some portion of the novels "in English" so that all discussions here will be based on the same information (might make the discussion a bit easier).

[bloodstar]

Let me try my hand at a bit of translation

From ROCH 2nd ed. chp. 26:

小龙女也不着恼，只知要诛杀尹赵二人，非将眼前这三个高手驱开不可，冷冷的道：
“既不肯让，我可要得罪了！”一言甫毕，剑光闪处，突听一片声响，悠然不绝。响声未
过，小龙女已向后跃退丈余，回到大殿中心站定。潇湘子和尼摩星脸上均各变色。原来这一
记长声乃四十余下极短促的连续打击组成。这顷刻之间，小龙女双剑已刺削点斩，一共出了
四十余招，尼潇二人守得滴水不漏，每一招均撞在兵刃之上，在群道听来，只不过一下兵刃
碰击的长声而已。

Xiao Long Nu kept her cool and knew in her heart that to kill the two Quanzhen priests she would need to get past these three highly skilled opponents facing her. Coldly, she said:" Don't blame me for being merciless since you refuse to budge!" The words barely left her mouth when there was a blinding flash of moving swords followed by a long incessant clanging sound. Before the sound could end, Xiao Long Nu had already leapt backwards by a more than a yard and returned to the centre of the hall. Xiao Xiang Zi and Ni Mo Xing could not contain their disbelief, as the long clanging sound was acually the combination of forty odd rapid clashing noises. In an instant, Xiao Long Nu's double swords had stabbed, slashed, jabbed and smote more than forty times. It was only because Xiao Xiang Zi and Ni Mo Xing had kept up an unbreachable defense that all of her rapid strokes landed on their weapons, hence producing what appeared to be one long continous sound.

两番攻守一过，四人心中均已了然，小龙女吃亏在内力不强，剑招上的劲道不能□开对
方兵刃，若能与这三人的真力大致相仿，三人早已守御不住。小龙女提剑回到殿心，寻思破
敌之计，只见三个对手的兵刃越舞越急，却那□寻得出半点破绽？

After two rounds of attack, all four warriors realised that Xiao Long Nu's lack of high internal strength proved to be a major disadvantage - the force of her sword stances could not displace her opponents' weapons; if she had internal strength that was comparable to her three opponents, their defences would long have failed utterly. Retracting her sword attacks, Xiao Long Nu returned to the centre of the hall hoping to come up with a way to overcome her opponents, only to see all three of them spinning their weapons with increasing rapidity. How could she find any weaknesses in their defence?


From SOD 2nd ed chp. 31:
却原来东方不败出手之快，实在不可思议，在这电光石火的一刹那间，他已用针在令
狐冲脸上刺了一下，跟着缩回手臂，用针挡开了令狐冲这一剑。幸亏令狐冲这一剑刺得也
是极快，又是攻敌之所不得不救，而东方不败大怒之下攻敌，不免略有心浮气粗，这一针
才刺得偏了，没刺中他的人中要穴。东方不败手中这枚绣花针长不逾寸，几乎是风吹得起
，落水不沉，竟能拨得令狐冲的长剑直荡了开去，武功之高，当真不可思议。令狐冲大惊
之下，知道今日遇到了生平从所未见的强敌，只要一给对方有施展手脚的余暇，自己立时
性命不保，当即刷刷刷刷连刺四剑，都是指向对方要害。

The speed of DFBB's attacks was beyond comprehension. In a flash, he had managed to jab Ling's face with his needle as well as blocked off Ling's sword. Luckily for Ling, his sword was swift enough to force DFBB to halt his needle and mount a defense; it was also due to DFBB's fury causing some lack of concentration that his needle missed Ling's vital acupoint by a margin. DFBB's sewing needle measured no longer than an inch, seemingly light enough to be blown away or float on water, yet it could deflect Ling's sword - DFBB's martial arts was indeed beyond belief. Shaken, Ling knew he had met the match of his life. If DFBB was given any opportunity to attack, he would be instantaneously dead. Ling did not wait a second longer and aiming at DFBB's vital points, slashed out rapidly four times.

令狐冲凝目看他出手，这绣花针四下拨挡，周身竟无半
分破绽，当此之时，决不容他出手回刺，当即大喝一声，长剑当头直砍。东方不败右手大
拇指和食指拈住绣花针，向上一举，挡住来剑，长剑便砍不下去。

Ling observed DFBB's stances and found that with his needle jabbing in all directions, no part of DFBB's body was vulnerable to any attacks. However, Ling could not afford to allow DFBB to launch an offensive, hence with a great shout, his sword came smiting down at DFBB's head. Poised between his thumb and index finger, DFBB's needle flew up and stopped Ling's sword right in its tracks.



IMO XLN and DFBB's speed were probably comparable... internal strength wise i would say DFBB was much stronger.

[superboy]

Bliss already translated DFBB's battle for us in one of the threads.




Excerpt from Chapter 31:

A voice came from the inner room, "Brother Lian, who did you bring in with you?" The pitch of that voice was sharp and high, but at the same time still sounded coarse and rough. Whether it was from a man or a woman, that chilling voice would cause the hair on anyone's skin to stand straight up.

Yang Lianting: "Its one of your old friends. He said he just couldn't NOT see you."

The voice from the inner room spoke, "Why did you bring him in for? Only you alone are allowed to come in here. Aside from you, there is no one else that I want to see." The last two sentences were spoken quite flirtaciously, clearly sounding like the words that would come from a woman, yet the voice was undoubtedly from a man.

Ren Woxing, Xiang Wentian, Yingying, Tong Baixiong, Shangguan Yun were all well acquainted with Dongfang Bubai, this voice they heard was definitely his, but sounded more like someone who was purposely squeezing his throat to raise the pitch as if learning to sing, pretending to be charming and seductive. The whole scene just appeared as if it was a joke. The look on everyone's face was of shock and bewilderment.

Yang Lianting: "I can't! If I didn't bring him in, he would've took my life. How could I not see you once more before I die?"

The person in the room said in a sharp voice, "Who would dare to insult you like that? Is it Ren Woxing? Tell him to come out!" Ren Woxing hearing that he was able to deduce based on a single sentence that it was him, dared not to underestimate his intelligence. He signaled for the rest of them to slowly enter the room. Shangguan Yun lifted one of the silk embroidered curtains, carrying in Yang Lianting with him, while the rest of the group followed in from behind.

The inner room was layered with floral tapestries and brocade embroideries. A strong scent of perfume and powder filled the room. In the eastern corner on top of a make-up table a person was sitting down, clothed in exquisite pink robes. In his left hand was an embroidering apparatus and in his right hand was an embroidery needle. The person lifted his head and had an astonished look on his face. But the look of confusion on this person's face could never match the look on the faces of Ren Woxing and the others.
With the exception of Linghu Chong, everyone recognized this person as the person who had usurped the position of Sect-Master of the Sun Moon Sect, who for the past ten or more years held the distinction of being the unrivaled number one fighter in all the world, Dongfang Bubai. But now, he had shaved off all his facial hair, entirely covered his face in beauty powder, and was dressed in clothing that neither resembled a man or a woman's. His eyes were eerie looking, and appeared way too glamorously exagerrated, and was just a pain to look at. What was this heaven-shaking earth-shattering figure of the martial arts world doing in a woman's quarters sewing!

Ren Woxing who was originally filled with anger and rage, now couldn't help holding in his laughter, said, "Dongfang Bubai, have you fallen insane?"

Dongfang Bubai in his sharp voice answered, "So it really is Leader Ren! You've finally come! Brother Lian, you ... you ... how are you? Is he the one who hurt you?" He walked over to Yang Lianting's side and carried him over to a bed. Dongfang Bubai had an extremely caring and worried look on his face, and asked, "Does it hurt very badly? Its only a broken thigh bone, not very serious. You need not worry, I'll immediately help you start reconnecting the bone." He slowly undressed Yang's shoes and socks, pulled him across the fragrant bed covers, and into his arms, exactly like a loving wife would do for her husband.

Everyone present couldn't help but feel shocked and slightly disgusted at what they saw. They all wanted to laugh, but the shows of affection they witnessed were just too strange, any laughter wouldn't even come out. Behind those elaborately decorative curtains, in that magnificent embroidery room, the air was filled with a quaint and unnatural aura.

Dongfang Bubai pulled out a green silk handkerchief from his side and gently wiped off the sweat and dirt from Yang Lianting's forehead.

Yang Lianting became slightly enraged and berated: "A grave enemy is right in front of us, why are you still wasting time with these useless pleasantries? Beat them away first and we'll still have time for intimacy later."

Dongfang Bubai giggled: "Yes! Yes! Please don't get upset. Your thigh must be in great pain. Oh it pains my heart to see you suffer."

Ren Woxing, Lingwu Chong and the others had never witnessed such a strange sight in their lives, they had never even heard of such a thing. Homosexual pedophilia was not out of the ordinary. But to see Dongfang Bubai, the exalted Leader of the Sun Moon Sect, actually dress up like a woman, and live in a woman's quarters? He must have fallen insane. When Yang Lianting spoke to him, his tone of voice was harsh and threatening. Even so, he responded quite gently and refined like an elegant lady. They all found this perplexing and figured something had to be amiss.

Tong Baixiong couldn't help it anymore and took a step forward: "Brother Dongfang, you ... you ... what the hell are you doing?"

Dongfang Bubai lifted his head as his expression sunk: "Were you one of the people who injured my Brother Lian as well?"

Tong Baixiong: "Why are you letting that nobody boss you around? He ordered some idiot to pretend to impersonate you, issuing orders in your name, and foolishly messing around with everything. Did you even know about this?"

Dongfang Bubai: "Of course I knew. Brother Lian always has my best interests in mind, he knew that administrating the entire sect was too tiring for me, so he took over in my stead. There's nothing wrong with that."

Tong Baixiong pointed to Yang Lianting: "This person wanted me dead. Did you know about that?"

Dongfang Bubai leisurely shook his head: "I didn't know about this. But if Brother Lian wanted you dead, then you must've done something wrong. Why didn't you let him kill you?"

Tong Baixiong looked startled. After he regained his composure, he started to laugh. In his laughter there was a certain hint of sadness. "So if he wanted to kill me, you'd just let him do so?"

Dongfang Bubai: "Whatever Brother Lian wishes, I will oblige. He is the only one in this world who is truly good to me, and he is the only one in this world who I will be good to. Brother Tong, you and I have had quite a friendship, but you shouldn't have offended my Brother Lian."

Tong Baixiong's entire face flushed red: "And I had thought that you completely lost your mind. You still know exactly what you're talking about. You still remember that we were the best of friends, friends who braved life and death together."

Dongfang Bubai: "Of course. If you offended me, I could care less. But you offended my Brother Lian, and that is unforgivable."

Tong Baixiong: "Well, I've already offended him, so what are you going to do? That bastard wants to take my life but I don't think he has the ability."

Dongfang Bubai extended his hand and gently combed his fingers through Yang Lianting's hair and asked gently, "Brother Lian, do you want to kill him?"

Yang Lianting: "Hurry up already! Stop dawdling around, you're starting to get on my nerves."

Dongfang Bubai: "Yes!" He turned to face Tong Baixiong and said: "Brother Tong, today we are friends no longer. Please do not blame me for it."

Before Tong Baixiong had entered this place, he had grabbed a blade from one of the dead servants outside. As soon as he stepped in, his blade was at ready. He knew that Dongfang Bubai's martial prowess was exceptional. Although Dongfang Bubai appeared quite mad and out of his mind, Tong Baixiong still dared not to let his guard down. He brandished his blade and took a defensive position.

Dongfang Bubai smiled coldly and said: "Oh must this be so difficult. Brother Tong, during that time on Mount Taiheng, the Seven Tigers of Ludong had me surrounded. I hadn't yet finished my training then and was caught in an ambush by them. My right arm was severely injured, and I was certain that I was finished. If it weren't for you who came to my rescue, how could I have lived up to this day?"

Tong Baixiong: "You really still remember those times from the distant past?"

Dongfang Bubai: "How could I forget? And during the time when I took control of the Sun Moon Sect, Elder Luo of Sparrow Hall wouldn't submit to my rule, constantly nagging and complaining. It was you who dispatched Elder Luo with a single blow. It was from that day forth that not another person dared to speak up and question my authority. You definitely deserve much credit for that."

Tong Baixiong replied resentfully, "I was quite foolish back then!"

Dongfang Bubai shook his head and said, "You weren't foolish. You were just being a loyal friend. I met you when I was only 11 years old. At that time, my family was poor and impoverished. Luckily you came and gave us aid for many years. When my parents passed away and we had no way to provide a propert burial for them, it was you who stepped in and took care of it for us."

Tong Baixiong waved away with his left hand and said: "Why bring up the past for?"

Dongfang Bubai: "I just had to. Brother Tong, it's not that I don't value our friendship and have forgotten all that you have done for me. It's just that you haveoffended my Brother Lian. He wants me to take your life, I just can't do otherwise."

TOng Baixiong shouted: "Enough! Enough!"

Suddenly, a pink blur streaked across their eyes, it appeared to be Dongfang Bubai. They heard a clang as the blade in Tong Baixiong's hand fell to the floor as he swayed back and forth in a daze on his feet. Then they saw Tong Baixiong's mouth open widely as his body fell forward straight onto the floor where it remained motionless. Although everything happened in only an instant, Ren Woxing and the others saw it clearly. The left and right Taiyang points above his eyebrows and the four Renzhong points below his nose all had a small red dot on them, as tiny drops of blood leaked out. It appeared that those points had been punctured by the sewing needle in Dongfang Bubai's hands. Ren Woxing and the others were shocked and took several steps backwards instinctively. Lingwu Chong pulled Ren Yingying behind him and shielded her with his own body. The room was filled with an eerie silence, no one even dared to take a single breath.

Ren Woxing slowly unsheathed his sword and said: "Dongfang Bubai, congratulations of completing your training of the martial arts in the 'Sunflower Scripture' (Kui Hua Bao Dian).!"

Dongfang Bubai: "Sect-Master Ren, it was you who gave me this 'Sunflower Scripture'. I've never forgotten your kindness."

Ren Woxing: "Really? Is that why you imprisoned me under West Lake, never letting me see the light of day?"

Dongfang Bubai: "But I didn't kill you, did I? If I had only instructed the Four Fellows of Jiangnan not to give you water for about half a month, do you think you could've survived until now?"

Ren Woxing: "Well in that case, you treated me very well then?"

Dongfang Bubai: "Why of course. I arranged for you to enjoy paradise in the West Lake of Kangzhou. West Lake is world-renowned for having some of the best scenery under heaven. And Plum Manor on Mount Gu is considerered one of the best spots in all of West Lake."

Ren Woxing: "So in fact you were letting me retire in the lap of luxury in that dungeon under West Lake. I should be thanking you instead then."

Dongfang Bubai sighed and said: "Sect-Master Ren, I'll never forget all that you've done for me. I was just a minor assistant under the Elder of the Wind and Thunder Hall. You were the one who went against convention and promoted me every year. You even presented me with our sect's most prized possession, the 'Sunflower Scripture', and decreed that I would succeed you in the future as Sect-Master of the Sun Moon Sect. I will always be grateful for the charity you have shown me."

Lingwu Chong looked down at Tong Baixiong's corpse and thought: "Before you were constantly praising all the good things that Elder Tong had done for you, then you suddenly struck out and killed him. And now you're bringing up all the things that Leader Ren has done for you. But I doubt he'll fall for that same trick."

But Dongfang Bubai's movements were just fast beyond belief, like a flash of lightning, a clap of thunder, there was no way to tell when he was going to strike, such speed was definitely frightening.

Lingwu Chong lifted his sword and pointed it straight towards Dongfang Bubai's chest. As soon as any of his four limbs moved, he could easily stab forward. Only by taking the initiative could he hope to defeat this opponent, if he let Dongfang Bubai strike first, he would definitely end up dead. Ren Woxing, Xiang Wentian, Shangguan Yun, Ren Yingying, were all focused intently on Dongfang Bubai, not even daring to blink an eye, because they knew that his attack could come at any time.

Dongfang Bubai continued: "At that time, I wanted only to become the Sect-Master of the Sun Moon Sect, to reign for a thousand autumns, and ten thousand epochs, to unite the entire world. So I plotted arduously and fervently to usurp your position, but first I had to cut off your wings. Brother Xiang, it appeared that this plan of mine couldn't escape your attentive eyes. In the Sun Moon Sect, besides Leader Ren and I, I'd have to say that you are also quite a talent."

Xiang Wentian's hands were clenched tightly as he focused hard, he didn't dare to break his concentration with a reply.

Dongfang Bubai let out a sigh and continued: "When I first ascended to the position of Sect-Master of the Sun Moon Sect, it was definitely glorious. I was showered with chants and praises of 'Talented in the academics, gifted in the martial arts. For the prosperity of our holy sect.' What undignified rubbish they were all spewing. It was only after I started to practice the 'Sunflower Scripture' did I realize what was truly important in this life. After that I started to diligently train my internal energy. Several years later, I finally understood the beauty of life, the myriad of all things."

As all of them listened to his high shrill voice speaking, their hands began to sweat. His words were definitely logical and coherent, extremely clear and to the point. But his strange androgynous, neither male nor female appearnce made them all shiver and cringe the more they looked at him. Dongfang Bubai's eyes slowly shifted towards Ren Yingying.

Dongfang Bubai: "Miss Ren, how have I been to you these past few years?"

Ren Yingying: "You've been very good to me."

Dongfang Bubai let out a sigh and said softly: "I never say it but I've always envied you greatly. Being born a woman is definitely a hundred times better than being born as a rotten man. In addition, you're attractive and beautiful beyond compare, young and lively. If only I had the chance to switch places with you, forget about the Leadership of the Sun Moon Sect, I wouldn't even want the Emperor's throne.

Lingwu Chong laughed and said: "If you were to switch places with Miss Ren, then that means that I'd have to marry an old twisted monster, I don't think that would be very easy to do!"

When Ren Woxing and the others heard those words escape his mouth, they were quite shocked. Dongfang Bubai's eyes glared at Lingwu Chong, his eyebrows flared up as his face turned green. "Who are you? How dare you talk to me like that. You've certainly got some guts." His tone of voice has sharp, he was definitely annoyed beyond repair.

Although Lingwu Chong was aware of the precarious situation that he was in, he couldn't help but laugh and utter: "Well does it really matter whether I'm a handsome young lad, or a beautiful young maiden? What I resent the most are those shameless old men who dress up like women."

Dongfang Bubai screeched back angrily: "I'm asking you, just who exactly are you?"

"My name is Lingwu Chong!"

Dongfang Bubai's anger gradually subsided as he broke a smile and said: "Ah! So you're Lingwu Chong. I've wanted to meet you for some time, I've heard that Miss Ren is totally enamored by you, to the point where she would even be willing to cut off her own head for you. I had the impression that you must be a handsome, charming, and talented young gentleman. But the more I look at you, you seem quite ordinary and plain. Compared with my Brother Lian, I'd have to say that you're off by a lot.

Lingwu Chong laughed and replied: "There really is nothing much good about me, only that I am true to my own feelings. Although that Yang buddy of yours is quite handsome, it's a pity and quite disturbing that he likes withered old weeds, coming here to ..."

Dongfang Bubai: "You ... you idiot ... what are you babbling about?" His entire face blushed red. Suddenly, a pink blur of a figure flashed across the room, a needle flew directly towards Lingwu Chong. Lingwu Chong had intended on angering him by saying those words, but as he saw Dongfang Bubai's sleeves sway, he raised his sword and stabbed towards Dongfang Bubai's throat. That one sword stab was incredibly fast, if Dongfang Bubai didn't withdraw, that blade would've pierced through his throat. But at that same moment, Lingwu Chong suddenly felt a slight pain in his left cheek, he swung towards his left in defense.

Dongfang Bubai's speed was simply unimaginable. In that flash of an instant, he managed to prick Lingwu Chong's face, and then contract his arm to block Lingwu Chong's sword strike with his needle right afterwards. Luckily that strike from Lingwu Chong was incredibly swift as well, it forced his opponent to draw up a defense, coupled with the fact that Dongfang Bubai was quite riled up and angry, the needle just slightly missed its mark, the Renzhong point on Lingwu Chong's face. The needle in Dongfang Bubai's hand was no longer than an inch, light enough to be blown away by the wind, light enough to float on water, yet he was able to parry Lingwu Chong's sword head-on with it. Dongfang Bubai's martial arts level was definitely beyond comprehension. Lingwu Chong was startled immensely, he knew that today he had run into a foe of unimaginable power. He knew that if he gave his opponent the leisure of the initiative, his life would be in grave danger. So instead, he unleashed four quick stabs at Dongfang Bubai, all aimed at vital spots.

Dongfang Bubai cried out in surprise and remarked: "Excellent swordsmanship!" He parried to the left, to the right, above and below, and knocked away all four of Lingwu Chong's attacks. Lingwu Chong stared intently at Dongfang Bubai's movements. That tiny sewing needle blocked four of his strikes yet showed not a single sign of wear or flaw. He didn't dare let Dongfang Bubai counterattack so with a shout, he hacked straight at Dongfang Bubai's head. Dongfang Bubai held the needle in his right hand between his thumb and index fingers, and simply lifted it upwards, stopping Lingwu Chong's sword dead in its path, impeding it from striking downwards entirely.

Lingwu Chong's arm felt numb, but he saw a pink blur flash by and a figure dash towards him from his left. It was already too late to block and too late to avoid it, in the spur of the moment, his sword rose and flashed towards Dongfang Bubai's left eye as well, it was a move that would result in injuries for both sides. Stabbing towards an opponent's eyes was a very underhanded move, a move that experts never used. But the 'Nine Swords of Solitude' that Lingwu Chong had mastered was formless to begin with, he was also quite a carefree person, and never really thought of himself as a master, also in the midsts of such danger he had no time to care about rules and etiquette. But he suddenly felt another small sharp pain near his left brow, as Dongfang Bubai leapt away and avoided his sword stab. Lingwu Chong realized that he had been pricked again by that needle in Dongfang Bubai's hands. But because Dongfang Bubai had to avoid Lingwu Chong's sword, his accuracy was a little off again as it missed its target, else Lingwu Chong's one eye would've been instantly blinded. In a fright, Lingwu Chong's sword lashed out like a violent storm, wildly stabbing and slashing in every which way, making it extremely difficult for the opponent to have time to counter with a single move. Dongfang Bubai parried to the left and blocked to the right, yet still had time to leisurely praise: "Excellent swordsmanship, excellent swordsmanship!"

Ren Woxing and Xiang Wentian both saw that the situation was starting to get out of control, one brandished his sword, the other his whip, and both attacked Dongfang Bubai at the same time. The combined forces of these three masters of the martial-realm was certainly devastatingly powerful. But Dongfang Bubai, with a handful of needles in each hand, unleashed a flurry of pricks and pokes at the three of them, his movements as quick as lightning, he showed no signs whatsoever of weakness. Shangguan Yun took up his blade as well and joined in the flurry of attacks, making the battle a four-against-one. After a brief moment in the confusion of battle, Shangguan Yun cried out as his blade hit the floor with a clang, with a flip he landed on the ground, his eyes writhing in pain over his left eye which had just been blinded by Dongfang Bubai. Lingwu Chong noticed that Ren Woxing and Xiang Wentian were attacking Dongfang Bubai all out, and that Dongfang Bubai showed no intenions of attacking him, so his sword sprung into action, unleashing stab after stab at Dongfang Bubai. But Dongfang Bubai's body was like a ghost, whirling in and out of sight, drifting about like formless smoke. The tip of Lingwu Chong's sword was always several inches off its mark.

Suddenly, Xiang Wentian cried out with an *AH*, followed by Lingwu Chong who gasped with a *HEI*, as the two of them had been struck by needles. Although the power of Ren Woxing's 'Star Essence Absorbing Stance' was powerful and deep, Dongfang Bubai's movements were fast to the extreme, he was nearly impossible to catch. Secondly, his weapon was an embroidery needle, he had no way of absorbing his internal energy through it. After several more exchanges, Ren Woxing cried out with an *AH* as well, his chest and throat both having been pricked. Fortunately, Lingwu Chong was unleashing an extremely fast attack at that time, forcing Dongfang Bubai to fend for his own safety, one of the needles missed its mark, while the other one did not penetrate very deep at all, both attacks were unable to injure the opponent.

The four of them had Dongfang Bubai surrounded and were attacking him all at once, and yet they hadn't even touched him yet, while all of them had already been pierced by his needles. Yingying, who was watching on the side, became increasingly worried, she thought: "I wonder if those needles are coated in poison, if they are then we'd be in deep trouble!"

Dongfang Bubai's movements became faster and faster, his body spun around in a pink blur all over the room. Ren Woxing, Xiang Wentian, and Lingwu Chong were all panting and shouting in frustration and and anger. All three of their weapons were infused with their internal energy, winds of force rocked through the room. Yet not even a peep escaped from Dongfang Bubai.

Yingying thought to herself, "If I throw myself into the battle, I'd only hinder their efforts and get in the way, what good would that bring? It appears that Dongfang Bubai still has the upper hand even though it's a three-on-one." In the corner of her eye, she caught glimpse of Yang Lianting sitting on top of the bed, focused intently on the battle, his face full of concern. An idea crossed Yingying's mind, as she crept towards the bed. Suddenly the dagger in her left hand rose, and stabbed into Yang Lianting's right shoulder. Yang Lianting was caught by surprise and could only cry out in pain. Yingying then drew her sword and stabbed it into his thigh.

Yang Lianting realized what she was trying to do, she wanted him to cry out in pain to disrupt Dongfang Bubai's concentration. So he tried his hardest to endure the pain and hold it in, not another sound escaped his mouth. Yingying became enraged and shouted, "Are you going to cry out or not? I'll cut off your fingers one by one!" Her sword rose and sliced off one of the fingers on his right hand. Yang Lianting was indeed resilient, although the pain was unbearable, he managed to keep his mouth shut. But the first cry that Yang Lianting gave out before had already reached Dongfang Bubai's ears. From the corner of his eyes, he saw Ren Yingying beside the bed, slowly torturing Yang Lianting with her sword. He shouted: "Little *****!" as a pink cloud of a figure darted towards the bed at Ren Yingying. She withdrew at the very last second to avoid the incoming attack, but it wasn't clear if Dongfang Bubai's needles had struck their mark. Lingwu Chong and Ren Woxing saw the opportunity as both slashed their swords across Dongfang Bubai's back and Xiang Wentian snapped his whip violently towards Yang Lianting's head. Dongfang Bubai disregarded his own safety, and stabbed his needle backwards into Xiang Wentian's chest.

Xiang Wentian felt his entire body go numb, as his whip fell to the floor. Right at that time, Lingwu Chong and Ren Woxing both plunged their swords through the back of Dongfang Bubai. Dongfang Bubai's entire body shook, and then collapsed on top of Yang Lianting. Ren Woxing was overjoyed as he pulled his sword out from Dongfang Bubai's back and pointed the tip at the back of his neck and said: "Dongfang Bubai, finally ... finally you've fallen by my hand!" In the rush of heated combat, he hadn't yet caught his breath. Yingying was too shaken up by the fight, her two legs became weak, as she wavered back and forth and then fainted to the floor. Lingwu Chong rushed to her side and caught her just as she fell, he saw a tiny gash of blood on her left cheek.

Yingying: "You've sustained quite a number of injuries too." She extended her sleeve and wiped across Lingwu Chong's face, her sleeve became stained with dots and streaks of red blood.

Lingwu Chong turned to Xiang Wentian and asked, "Are your injuries serious?"

Xiang Wentian forced a laugh and said: "I won't die that easily!"

Blood gushed forth from the two wounds on Dongfang Bubai's back, his injuries were fatal, he cried painfully: "Brother Lian, Brother Lian, how cruel of these villains to torture you like this!"

Yang Lianting replied angrily: "You always claimed that your martial arts were invincible, how come you can't even take care of these bastards?"

Dongfang Bubai: "I ... I already ..."

Yang Lianting replied: "You what?"

Dongfang Bubai: "I've already tried my best, they ... their martial arts are quite strong as well." His body suddenly trembled as he rolled to the floor. Ren Woxing was afraid that he would get up again so he stabbed his sword into Dongfang Bubai's left thigh.

Dongfang Bubai laughed decrepitly and said: "Sect-Master Ren, you've finally won, I've lost."

Ren Woxing let out a hearty laugh and said: "You little sneak, do you think you can change what was transpired?"

Dongfang Bubai shook his head and said: "I'm not trying to change anything. Since I've been defeated here today, I know that my life is over." His voice had been extremely high and sharp, but now it had sunk to a lower tone as he continued: "But if we had fought one-on-one, there is no way that you would've defeated me."

Ren Woxing hesitated for a second, and then replied: "You're right, your martial arts are definitely at a higher level than mine, that I truly admire."

Dongfang Bubai: "Lingwu Chong, your swordsmanship is incredible, but if we fought one-on-one, you wouldn't be my match either."

Lingwu Chong: "That is true, in fact the four of us combined wouldn't be able to overcome you. It was only because of your attachment to that person surnamed Yang, that we were able to break your concentration and injure you. Your martial arts are at anunimaginable level, there is no one worthy of the title, 'Number One Fighter Under The Heavens' other than you. In that sense, I truly have utmost respect for you."

Dongfang Bubai slightly snickered and said: "That the two of you are able to admit that, at least I know that you two are true men, with sincerity and integrity. Aye, what a pity, what a pity, ever since I mastered the 'Sunflower Script', I followed exactly what was written on that script. First, I had to castrate myself to train my qi, then I had to refine pellets and intake herbs. Gradually, I lost all my facial hair, and my voice started to change, my temper started to change as well. After that, I was no longer attracted to women, I killed all seven concubines that I had with me, and ... and I put all my affection and care towards Yang Lianting. If only I were born a woman, then that would've been perfect."

"Leader Ren, I ... I'm going to die soon, I beg only one thing of you, ... please ... if you could take into consideration how well I've treated your daughter all these years ..."

Ren Woxing: "What is it?"

Dongfang Bubai: "Please spare Yang Lianting's life, please just let him off Darkwood Cliff."

Ren Woxing: "I plan to cut him into a thousand pieces, and torture him to death over the course of a hundred days, cutting off a finger today, slicing off a toe tomorrow."

Dongfang Bubai cried out: "You ... how can you be so cruel!"

Dongfang Bubai lunged up fiercely and suddenly at Ren Woxing. Because of his severe injuries, his speed was nowhere near as fast as it was before, but his attack was still astonishingly quick. Ren Woxing stabbed outwards with his sword, it penetrated the front of his chest and exited through his back. Just at that time, Dongfang Bubai flicked his finger, the needle in his hand shot out and pierced Ren Woxing's right eye. Ren Woxing withdrew his sword and leapt back, he took a deep breath and leaned his back against a wall. The impact caused nearly half the wall to collapse under his immense force. Ren Yingying looked at her father's right eye and saw one a needle embedded into one of his pupils. Fortunately, Dongfang Bubai had not much strength left in his hands, or else that needle could've punctured straight into Ren Woxing's brain. Although his life was not in danger, his right eye was permanently blinded.

[bloodstar]

darn..... my effort is wasted.

[superboy]

darn..... my effort is wasted.

You can still translate XLN's part.

[Faustus1982]

[QUOTE=yittz]Yes, a needle isn't intimidating compared to twin swords. But also keep in mind, that it is said that a small object (ie needle) allows greater focus of internal energy, and the needle would be easier to power up to a certain speed than twin swords.
QUOTE]

This is not 100% accurate.

1. A sword being longer will have much more speed at its point than at the hilt. Therefore you do not need to your arm as fast to achieve the same radial velocity at the tip.

2. While a sword has more mass and therefore requires more energy to accelerate, remember that to use a needle, you actually have to get about 3 feet closer to your enemy than you would if you were using a sword. This means that not only your slashing and stabbing speed must be super, your whole body must sprint in and out of your opponents attacking range within a split second.

3. A needle being smaller allows greater focus, true. But it also removes your ability to slash. You can only poke. And blocking with a tiny needle indicates massive qi stores.

I wonder what the result would have been if DFBB was holding 2 or more needles...

[CC]

Lets see.

A.
Later in the book, LHC thought that DFBB's speed was frightening yet his technique or inner energy was no big deal.

B.
The Mongol fighters could use their superior inner strength to twirl their
weapons defensively such that XLN could not break thru unless she had
inner force at least equal to them.

C.
Using point B, RWX with his considerable inner force, could have twirled his
weapon similarly to prevent DFBB from pricking him unless RWX had less
inner force then DFBB (which is unlikely if point A is true)

So either

a) DFBB is so much faster then XLN that he could break thru the defence of
RWX who had superior inner force. Compared to XLN who could not penetrate
the defence of the Mongol fighters with better strength.

b) RWX was not fighting defensively or his weapon skills suck compared
to the mongol fighters (unlikely)

c) DFBB does have superior or equal inner force to RWX (which disputes point
A unless LHC thinks RWX's inner str is not that good either)


Anyway, I don't see how LHC can think DFBB's strength is nothing great if
DFBB could use a light needle to block his overhead sword smash.

I think this is another case of JY putting story telling over detail fighting ability analysis. Happens all the time.
d)DFBB had superior techniques (goes against point A)

[bloodstar]

2. While a sword has more mass and therefore requires more energy to accelerate, remember that to use a needle, you actually have to get about 3 feet closer to your enemy than you would if you were using a sword. This means that not only your slashing and stabbing speed must be super, your whole body must sprint in and out of your opponents attacking range within a split second.

Yeah that's very true to the novel. Literally holding a needle and running up to your enemies and poking them before running away. All the movie/tv adaptations show DFBB's needles attached to long threads and he shoots them all over the place... which is not accurate.

[bobbywu]

A bit surprised that Ren Wo Xing didnt' try to drain Dong Fang's internal energy.

[superboy]

RWX was unable to use XXDF because the density of a needle doesn't allow him to.

[Temujin]

First of all, those four Mongolian Mercenaries are not in the league of the four puligists of XAJH (at least I don't think they are), except for GWM. RWX and LHC specifically are in the top 4 fighters in XAJH already. And XWT is definitely not far below, and yet Dong Fang dispatched them effortlessly. Even LHC who has always been able to defeat anyone with his DG9J prior to this duel (despite losing to RWX due in the underground cellar when his neigong was still in a mess) can't even approach Dong Fang and put on defensive for most of the fight.

Two things to consider :

1) Dong Fang is able to block a DG9J sword move by LHC, who has restored his internal power and absorbed some more at this point, with a tiny needles, effortlessly

While you might argue that twin swords are heavier because of the mass, swords are also easier to control and provide buffer zone to disperse the energy or vibration from some of the enemy's parrying weapon. Therefore XLN has some advantages.

My point is the power required to block an incoming sword attack with a tiny needle is more than the power required to attack (block) with a sword.

Just try to hold a needle between your thumb and index finger, and swing a stick or something heavier like a broom, lightly against it, see if you can even hold it steady without even hurting your finger or poking yourself when you block the incoming force. Now.... Compare that with holding a stick and try to block another stick swinging at it. Tell me which one is harder and more painful to do.

I think this proves that DFBB's ability is awesome and his internal energy is higher to be able to concentrate and put his energy into a tiny weapon like a needle

LHC's comment is perhaps biased, because he always thought DFBB as an evil, an enemy to Wulin, despite his carefree-ness and he's also able to see weaknesses due to his DG9J skills

2) The second point is that XLN seems to take the initiative to attack first and confuse the enemies, and she has the element of surprise with L-R techniques. It is said that if the fight were to go on, XLN would not stand a chance.

Such statement DOES NOT exist during DFBB fight with the four pugilists.

[ChronoReverse]

I interpret LHC's comment about DFBB's internal energy and technique as this:

1) His techniques were full of holes. LHC saw them but he couldn't exploit them because of DFBB supreme speed. Therefore his techniques weren't that great in themselves but transform into something great because of the speed KHBD gives.

2) DFBB's internal was strong. However, even if it were stronger than RWX's internal energy, it wouldn't have been a big deal if DFBB wasn't so fast because the three of them would've still overwhelmed DFBB (plus two of them had XXDF).


That seems to me the only way the completely resolves the actual events and the thoughts of the characters (assuming the characters themselves are correct).

[superboy]

When was it said that DFBB's techniques was full of holes and that he will eventually be overwhelmed?