Overcoming a sword without a sword - well, whose sword?

[Candide]

Since we're in the mood of discussing SPW stuff, I just thought about this "overcoming a sword without a sword" level that DGQB claimed to have reached. My question is: whose sword is it?

Laviathan has written a summary and a great analysis of DGQB's martial art philosophies here: http://www.wuxiapedia.com/research/m...osophy_of_dgqb (login required, free reg). Quoting him (this is what DGQG claimed):

"After the age of forty, I no longer relied on weaponry. Trees, bamboo and rock can all be my swords. From then on, the essence of my cultivation slowly reached the level of overcoming the sword without a sword."

Naturally, one would assume that he was talking about conquering an opponent armed with a sword without having a sword himself. It's seemingly supported by the fact that a lot of great fighters in JY universe have almost reached this level, as in they didn't rely much if at all on weaponry. Examples would be the Greats of LOCH and ROCH, ZWJ, the top fighters in DGSD...

However, the more I thought about it, the more it seemed tame, if I assumed that "the sword" he was talking about was his opponent's. Defeating an armed opponent with bare hands or some wacky unconventional weapon (bamboo stick, rock/pebble, needle etc.) is something all top fighters can do, provided that the opponent sucks. When fighting an equal and being armed with lesser weapon, one would be shitting his pants and wishing he had something more decent, just like Yang Guo breaking two swords while fighting Jinlun Guoshi.

What I think is that "the sword" here is the practitioner's, DGQB's, own sword. His claim of "overcoming sword without sword" should be understood as he was no longer limited by the physical sword in his own hand, no longer relied on it and it wouldn't make a difference if he had something else, or nothing, in his hand, instead of a sword. If we look at the words he used prior to making that claim, it's very likely that it's the case:

How he described his previous swords:

"Fierce and aggressive, able to penetrate every obstacle. With it, I competed with the heroes of the Northern Plains during my teenage years."

"The Violet Flexible Sword, used it prior to the age of thirty. I accidentally wounded a righteous man with it, it turned out to be a Weapon of Doom. I felt great remorse and abandoned the sword in a deep valley."

"The Heavy, Blunt Sword, complexity is useless. Before I reached the age of forty, I used it to roam the entire Empire under Heaven."

It seems that this guy used to have kick-arse swords and they factored a great deal in his all-conquering career.

What he wrote before the "no sword" claim:

After the age of forty, I no longer relied on weaponry....

Finally he didn't have to cheat with superior swords! (j/k).

Anyway, that's what I think about the sword in DGQB's claim. Laviathan's analysis touched a great deal on that but he didn't spell it out. It's a very much recommended read though.

By the way, DGQB also said that the "essence of his cultivation" slowly reaching that "no sword" level. How slowly was it? How long did it take him after he turned 40? 10, 20, 30 years? "Slowly reaching" could be also understood as "approaching" which could mean that he never actually mastered that level, but just got close to it. I personally believe (since the no sword overcoming sword is just too "romantic" for me to accept) that he was a bit like that QKDNY creator, who thought of such level in his head but could never master it fully. I believe that DGQB's holding a sword would totally own DGQB's holding a piece of rock or a leaf. I reckon that he died with that in his mind, which fits very well with his character (a sword nerd) and makes him more human, in my view anyway.

What do you reckon?

[Faustus1982]

Interesting thoughts...

One thing about his 'kick arse' swords tho... They were kick arse because of the user... DGQB and and YG used the swords to pwn everyone, because of their skills and high nei li. The same sword in the hands of some lesser fighter? Maybe he would drop it, and the sword chops off his leg...

About overcoming a sword without one... Its very possible that you are right. Alternatively he could have developed his own form of LiuMaiShenJian with which to continue pwning everyone else. Just that YG never learnt this final skill ...

My 2 cents.

[Charlieboy]

mmm....yea, sounds reasonable that he'd thought of reaching a level beyond the physical sword without actually having reached it himself, as with the QKDNY, except the difference being, QKDNY had real instructions on how to achieve the ultimate level whereas DGKB seemed to hint at the possibilities without the details

[letalforever]

One thing that we can confirm, DGQB's internal strength was at least on par if not more than Yang Guo as shown by his ability to wield the Heavy Iron Sword(requires very high internal strength). This at least gives us some evidence that DGQB's claims were not totally bullshit

[lostchild]

It does make sense logical wise. No matter how good it is, a sword is still an external part of the body. It would make sense that when one's martial art skill reaches a certain level, the sword will actually just get in the way. The concept of no sword is better than having sword been around for a long time not just from DGQB.

I think it progresses like this:

Use weapon
Use anything (branch, rock, etc..) as weapon
Use no weapon just self
No weapon No self (god like)

[Dennis Chen]

I reckon that DGQB was no better or worse than Wong Chongyang. But that's just my opinion.

[PJ]

His claim of "overcoming sword without sword" should be understood as he was no longer limited by the physical sword in his own hand, no longer relied on it and it wouldn't make a difference if he had something else, or nothing, in his hand, instead of a sword

hmm, I thought pretty much everyone agree about this already

[Candide]

hmm, I thought pretty much everyone agree about this already

Yeah but I thought they agree to it in the context that DGQB fights another swordsman, hence the "whose sword?" question. Plus I added my thought that DGQB never actually reached that level himself.