Shi Po Tian's martial arts

[Panadol]

How powerful is the shaolin skill he learned compared to the YJJ and other martial arts. I know the Ode to Gallantry skill was the strongest skill he acquired making him in the super category, but what i want to know is how strong is the 罗汉伏魔神功?

[wkeej]

be patient. shi po tian's admirer = kidd = should have the answer.

[kidd]

No, I don't, because I don't know how powerful the fighters in the other novels are. So, can't make any comparison.

His internal energy seems extreme high after 罗汉伏魔神功 harmonize his clashing Yin Yang energy. But then, even before learning 罗汉伏魔神功, his internal energy is already high. It's just that the Yin Yang energy in his body cannot flow hormonically. When Zhan Fei hit him (before he learn 罗汉伏魔神功 ), ZF get flung backward and his arm bone broken. So, I really don't know whether his extremely high internal energy is due to 罗汉伏魔神功 or not. And then, there was TB3's wine. Many factors contribute to his internal energy building.

Anyway, I may be a SPT fan, but I don't study the martial arts too much. I'm more interested in the plot and characterisation.

[CFT]

SPT gets a load of boosters over the whole novel.

When he first learned the clay figurines, these were already a significant skill. The person who stole them (from Shaolin I think) - can't remember the character - was a top class "external" fighter with great technique and was looking for an internal power cultivation technique. Basically he died for those figurines, which led Tse Yeen Hak to surmise that the skill portrayed in the clay figures was significant.

TYH wanted to indirectly kill SPT off before he thought up a request for TYH to perform beacause of the black steel plate obligation. To this end he taught SPT to follow the clay figurine inner power cultivation in an unorthodox and highly dangerous manner. The orthodox method was to train first train the yin then the yang meridian in the foot, and work your way upwards (I guess) alternating yin-yang to maintain balance. However, TYH told SPT to train ALL the yang meridians first and then the yin meridians (actually I forget which way round it was).

This was a highly dangerous way to train inner power and SPT was fortunate not to have died, something that TYH couldn't figure out. Anyway the two conflicting streams of energy were bought into harmony when he was struck on the chest just when he was in turmoil, again a lucky coincidence.

Regarding the Lo Han Fook Mor Sun Gong, he discovered the steel (or wood?) figures beneath the clay figures. I think he started training them out of curiosity but found that he got a great sensation of comfort from the practice. Before he knew it he had spent a day or more and had largely or completely finished it.

Note that his technique always lagged behind his inner power cultivation. He got some good chin-na techniques from Ding Dong and Ding But Sam. Obviously some good sabre techniques from See Siu Chui to counter the Snow Mountain swordplay. He good a good grounding in basic martial strategy and tactics from his natural parents.

On the island he got world class techniques and inner power cultivation via the poem written in Arabic(?) (tadpole writing). The Hap Hak inner power cultivation seems quite unique to me. It seems to be a wholely visual method for linking various meridians together in various combinations for the cultivation.

[HuangYushi]

However, TYH told SPT to train ALL the yang meridians first and then the yin meridians (actually I forget which way round it was).

'Yin' first.

Regarding the Lo Han Fook Mor Sun Gong, he discovered the steel (or wood?) figures beneath the clay figures.

Wood.

On the island he got world class techniques and inner power cultivation via the poem written in Arabic(?) (tadpole writing).

The Xia Ke Xing poem was carved in ordinary Chinese characters. Shi Potian could not read, so he ended up perceiving them as "tadpoles" [蚪蚪 - doudou]. At least, at least that was what he told Long and Mu, which of course, baffled the two old men. Real "tadpole writing" is called 科斗文 (kedou wen) [also 科斗字 - kedouzi]. It is an ancient form of Chinese script that resembles tadpoles swimming about in water.

That said, modern Arabic writing has several alphabets (it is alphabetic, not iconographic like Chinese) that look like tadpoles too!

Here are a couple of other threads of Shi Potian, his person and his martial arts, if anyone's interested:
http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showthre...6&page=2&pp=20
http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=12967

[PJ]

By the who, this is the ultimate topic on Shi Potian: http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showthre...?t=5009&page=1

[kidd]

Actually, I'm not really sure what 罗汉伏魔神功 do. SPT already has very high internal energy before he learnt 罗汉伏魔神功. That was from him learning the energy cultivation art on the outer layer of the figurine. Zhan Fei's palm attack harmonized his clashing Yin Yang energy while the book said 罗汉伏魔神功 make his energy 'flow to the right path'. Whether 罗汉伏魔神功 increase his internal energy or not, I really don't know.

[yittz]

罗汉伏魔神功 did improve his internal energy.

The original martial arts on the arhats weren't anything special. XYK was surprised that the previous owner (whose martial arts nearly rivalled his) would go into the trouble to steal it and keep it. The real prize is not the outside by the 罗汉伏魔神功 hidden inside. Given its origins and being sought after by a prominent martial artist, it probably boosted SPT's internal considerably. I would say that's the main factor why his internal >> than Ode de Galantry students.

However, like previous posters said, SPT's internal was already high (due to the way he learnt the basic shaolin internal) and other factors also contributed to his internal rise when he met Zhang3, Li4. The throwing back of the iron palm guy is due to the reaction of conflicting internal streams harmonising, don't think SPT can generate that naturally, at his own will at that time.

[kidd]

The Hap Hak inner power cultivation seems quite unique to me. It seems to be a wholely visual method for linking various meridians together in various combinations for the cultivation.

Yeah, it's unusual that all the martial arts that made SPT powerful are written in picture forum.

[kidd]

The original martial arts on the arhats weren't anything special. XYK was surprised that the previous owner (whose martial arts nearly rivalled his) would go into the trouble to steal it and keep it. The real prize is not the outside by the 罗汉伏魔神功 hidden inside. Given its origins and being sought after by a prominent martial artist, it probably boosted SPT's internal considerably. I would say that's the main factor why his internal >> than Ode de Galantry students.

It's ironic that the set of figurines was sought after by so many prominant martial artists and the various owners spent their whole life trying to uncover its secret, but most probably none of them can learn it even if they did uncover the hidden arhat figurines.

[PJ]

i want to know is how strong is the 罗汉伏魔神功?

I don't know exactly how strong is the Arhats Demon Taming Art. However I found some information that *might* be helpful.

Regarding this art, the narrator said: "Now Shi Potian has mastered this art to a small degree. Normally it would take 5 to 10 years to reach this level of cultivation."

As a comparison, the narrator said regarding one of the 72 Supreme Arts of Shaolin in DGSD: "From the basic Weituo Fist to the exquisite Prana Palm, it would normally take approximately 30 to 40 years of cultivation."

Of course, different arts respond differently to time spent on it. However since both arts are regarded as high level Shaolin material (albeit Prana Palm is more external while Arhats is internal), it might be reasonable to postulate that due to the much more extensive time required to learn Prana Palm, it would be more powerful than the Arhats Demon Taming Art.

[Extremer88]

How would YJJ compare with Luohan Fumuo Shengong? Both are Shaolin internal energy cultivation arts at its highest level.

[Laviathan]

Dear PJ,

Regarding this art, the narrator said: "Now Shi Potian has mastered this art to a small degree. Normally it would take 5 to 10 years to reach this level of cultivation."

Actually, the text states that:
“罗汉伏魔神功”已是初步小成。本来练到这境界，少则五六年，多则数十年.

(Shi Potian) has achieved basic mastery of "The Arhat Taming Demon Art". Normally, to reach such a level, it would take at least 5 to 6 years, and might even take several decennia.

As a comparison, the narrator said regarding one of the 72 Supreme Arts of Shaolin in DGSD: "From the basic Weituo Fist to the exquisite Prana Palm, it would normally take approximately 30 to 40 years of cultivation."

The narrator explained in the novel that, the first form taught in the Shaolin Temple is the Arhat Fist, followed by the Weituo Palm. To advance from the basic Weituo Palm to the most advanced Prana Palm, would take 30 to 40 years of training. In other words, it takes 30 to 40 years to complete the entire Shaolin curriculum up to Prana Palm. It does not actually refer to the time necessary to train Prana Palm itself.

Of course, different arts respond differently to time spent on it. However since both arts are regarded as high level Shaolin material (albeit Prana Palm is more external while Arhats is internal), it might be reasonable to postulate that due to the much more extensive time required to learn Prana Palm, it would be more powerful than the Arhats Demon Taming Art.

Like I mentioned above, the author was not talking about the time required to learn Prana Palm. But according to your applied reasoning: Arhat Taming Demon Art might need several decades to obtain only basic mastery, while the Shaolin system takes about 30 to 40 years to learn, so Arhat Taming Demon must be at least equal to the entire Shaolin martial arts system?



Greetings,

Lav

[Whsie]

I don't know exactly how strong is the Arhats Demon Taming Art. However I found some information that *might* be helpful.

Regarding this art, the narrator said: "Now Shi Potian has mastered this art to a small degree. Normally it would take 5 to 10 years to reach this level of cultivation."

As a comparison, the narrator said regarding one of the 72 Supreme Arts of Shaolin in DGSD: "From the basic Weituo Fist to the exquisite Prana Palm, it would normally take approximately 30 to 40 years of cultivation."

Of course, different arts respond differently to time spent on it. However since both arts are regarded as high level Shaolin material (albeit Prana Palm is more external while Arhats is internal), it might be reasonable to postulate that due to the much more extensive time required to learn Prana Palm, it would be more powerful than the Arhats Demon Taming Art.

Don't forget that the 5-6 years is BASIC cultivation. It's only because SPT already had Yin/Yang together that he was able to learn it so quick.

[PJ]

Dear Lav,

Oops, I needed to read the passages more carefully.

It is always good to see you post here.

About the Arhats Demon Taming Art (ADTA), it is very interesting. In order to grasp it, one must be simple-minded AND extremely smart. On the other hand, to learn some parts of Yijinjing, You Tanzhi only had to be simple-minded. Also, as is the case with YJJ, many people tried to learn ADTA but did not succeed. Does that mean ADTA is possibly harder to learn than YJJ? The one quality where YJJ does outshine ADTA is the danger involved in learning it.

[K2Grey]

Did those guys actually see the Demon Taming Art proper though? The guys who tried to learn YJJ, I'm assuming, had access to the actual scroll, whereas the guys who tried to learn the Demon Taming Art were going off the clay figures, which didn't actually contain the Demon Taming Art. So they weren't even trying to learn it in the first place.

I thought the danger involved with YJJ was just a JMZ deal and not applicable to say Shaolin monks trying to learn it.

[kidd]

The one quality where YJJ does outshine ADTA is the danger involved in learning it.

ADTA is extremely dangerous to learn too. The narator has said that SPT is lucky he discovered ADTA right after he woke up. If he has become "Bang Zhu" longer, it's unvoidable that his mind will become less pure, and if he learns ADTA at that time, not only will it not benefit him, but it will also bring him harm.

那少年天资聪颖，年纪尚轻，一生居于深山，世务一概不通，非纯朴不可，恰好合式。也幸好他清醒之后的当天， 便即发现了神功秘要。否则帮主做得久了，耳濡目染，无非娱人声色，所作所为，尽是凶杀争夺，纵然天性良善， 出于泥而不染，但心中思虑必多，那时再见到这一十八尊木罗汉，练这神功便非但无益，且是大大的有害了。

[PJ]

ADTA is extremely dangerous to learn too. The narator has said that SPT is lucky he discovered ADTA right after he woke up. If he has become "Bang Zhu" longer, it's unvoidable that his mind will become less pure, and if he learns ADTA at that time, not only will it not benefit him, but it will also bring him harm.

That's true. The difference I meant is that Yijinjing also requires the practioner to be enlightened (or else suffer JMZ's fate), which is not mentioned for grasping ADTA.

[kidd]

That's true. The difference I meant is that Yijinjing also requires the practioner to be enlightened (or else suffer JMZ's fate), which is not mentioned for grasping ADTA.

You Tan Zhi is not enlightened.

[PJ]

You Tan Zhi is not enlightened.

I think his saviour was the ice worm poison which happened to merge with the YJJ energy. So the current energy inside his body is no longer YJJ.