Long Distance Attacks in XAJH and their triviality

[Ren Wo Xing]

I'm not sure that XWT ever recognized it. He did deduce that LHC was FQY's disciple, since he knew LHC was from Huashan and probably figured there was no way LHC's sword art could've been taught by YBQ. Unless there's a passage that I missed which suggests otherwise.

DG9J is only formless when executed to the highest of levels, ie, when it transcends the actual teachings of DG9J. But DG9J itself actually is composed of many unimaginably brilliant movements and attacks, which is why the various stances have literally hundreds and thousands of changes in the general index stance, which Linghu Chong (genius that he is) partially learned in one night. So it's very conceivable that people can recognize it, as Fang Sheng definitely did.

[bliss]

DG9J is only formless when executed to the highest of levels, ie, when it transcends the actual teachings of DG9J. But DG9J itself actually is composed of many unimaginably brilliant movements and attacks, which is why the various stances have literally hundreds and thousands of changes in the general index stance, which Linghu Chong (genius that he is) partially learned in one night. So it's very conceivable that people can recognize it, as Fang Sheng definitely did.

I guess my point was that there's a difference between someone recognizing/deducing that Linghu Chong was Feng Qingyang's disciple and someone recognizing that Linghu Chong was using Dugu 9 Jian. I guess this all goes back to the weird statement that you (Ren Woxing) make regarding the impossibility of LHC's sword art being taught by Feng Qingyang. The hypothesis was that FQY might've learned DG9J at a much later point, such that the only person who recognized it by name was Fang Sheng. The implication is that FQY's level might be much higher than originally thought as well.

Another point that just came to mind was that if Lin Yuantu was indeed one of the 3 people that Feng Qingyang praised, then Feng Qingyang is probably much closer to Dongfang Bubai's level than everyone thinks. Theoretically, Lin Yuantu should be at least at the same level, if not much better than DFBB.

[Ren Wo Xing]

I guess my point was that there's a difference between someone recognizing/deducing that Linghu Chong was Feng Qingyang's disciple and someone recognizing that Linghu Chong was using Dugu 9 Jian. I guess this all goes back to the weird statement that you (Ren Woxing) make regarding the impossibility of LHC's sword art being taught by Feng Qingyang. The hypothesis was that FQY might've learned DG9J at a much later point, such that the only person who recognized it by name was Fang Sheng. The implication is that FQY's level might be much higher than originally thought as well.

Another point that just came to mind was that if Lin Yuantu was indeed one of the 3 people that Feng Qingyang praised, then Feng Qingyang is probably much closer to Dongfang Bubai's level than everyone thinks. Theoretically, Lin Yuantu should be at least at the same level, if not much better than DFBB.

Unless, of course, Lin Yuantu managed to hide the full extent of his martial arts from Feng Qingyang as well. Which is probably a distinct possibility, considering he created BXJF's 72 craptacular movements solely for the purpose of hiding his speed.

Anyhow, it did seem as though RWX was unaware of DG9J...

[ChronoReverse]

It would probably depend on how quickly LYT defeated (or didn't defeat) FCY. Even if obfuscated, DG9J would continue to increase its prowess as long as the fight continued. Likewise, LYT could also increase his prowess by "uncorking" his hidden potential.

[ChanceEncounter]

And why was Yu Canghai's master numbskull enough not to see that it was superior speed that defeated him? The whole damn sect was still trying to dissect the real secret behind the 72 strokes years later. Its pretty obvious if you are getting trashed in a fight if the opponent is smacking you with faster speed. I am guessing that LYT tried to hide his real ability by firstly using the 72 'rigid' strokes as a cover, and possibly not showing his real speed in a fight (i.e. move _just_ fast enough to win, not crazy fast like DFBB unecessarily).

I'm not sure this is that plausible. To not move that fast would imply either a lack of incentive, or lack of ability. Now, certainly, if LYT only moved a fraction of what he was capable of, Yu Changhai's master would have noticed that he did not seem to give forth any effort, wouldn't he? If he could notice the nature of those 72 strokes, he must have been able to observe the motions of LYT pretty clearly.

So, really, either way he was a numbskulll.

I don't know where the logical deduction that FQY learned DG9J at a later date comes from. FQY evidently went into retirement long ago, and as Yue Buqun's martial uncle, though apparently of a different branch, had little reason to show it to him. Seeing too as YBQ was a generation lower than him, and likely didn't pal around too much, would explain why YBQ did not recognize it.

As for Fang Sheng recognizing it, if FQY did a great service to Shaolin, the Fang generation monks could have witnessed it, and thus recognized it, even many years after the fact. Clearly FQY's swordsmanship level would be very hard to achieve, so it's not a stretch that, if the next guy that nearly achieved it (and looks similar) is from Hua Shan, it would also likely be DG9J, FQY's swordsmanship.

As for DG9J itself, it builds upon what the person knows about swordsmanship. As mentioned, both a complete novice who has no idea what he's doing and the ultimate master are formless, but the ultimate master is far more deadly because he has a lifetime of experience and techniques under his belt. Therein, to be truly dangerous as a formless fighter, you have the have the background skills and abilities. Since both LHC and FQY had a background in Hua Shan sword arts, that would be the most likely thing they would incorporate into their DG9J style.

Therein, outsiders would look and recognize the essence of Hua Shan's swordsmanship, and wonder, "is it FQY's swordsmanship or some secret, high level Hua Shan swordsmanship?" But, at the same time, Hua Shan insiders would note the differences and wonder, "What is that? I've never seen it before."