Adaptions vs Original Novel

[yittz]

Do any adaptions storyline (tv series) actually improve the original storyline written by Jin yong. Will be interested to see some examples.

The only adaption, I ve found to do justification to the novel is the recent TLBB, but that pretty much follow the storyline.

Seeing how the 2000? (or 2003?) HSDS completely mucked up the storyline - no logic at several bits and lacking suspense in general, it is frustrating watching it. Much rather have it follow the original novel.

Can't we have JY as the script writer, instead of some noob who seems to have no idea what JY novels are about. Gees, at least they should read forums similar to this.

[XiaoYe]

I thought the TV adaptation of the Book and the Sword improved the original novel. CJL is a lot more likeable on screen than in the novel!

[goodrick]

This is the reason why I avoid reading original novels before watching the adaptation. I have seen people who cannot appreciate the adaptations no matter how good they were made because the people already read the book first and the adaptation never lives up to their expectation. They cannot appreciate it no matter how good it is.

[XiaoYe]

Haha, yeh. I normally watch adaptations first then read the novel. This way I can enjoy both. There are times where it is the other way round and the adaptation is just never right!

[_Kenny_]

For me reading the novel 1st does not make me bias at all. If the adaptation is good, then it's good even if it doesn't follow the novel exactly. Case in point, I 1st read Mario Puzo's Godfather novel before watching the film, I actually preferred the film over the novel. The Godfather novel, while being being very good, is far from being a literary masterpiece, whereas the film adaptation is considered to be in the conversation of greatest film of all time, it is one of the few times where the film surpasses the novel imo.

[Trien Chieu]

Most of the golden 80s wuxia serials from TVB are better than the novels. LOCH82 is much better than the novel.

[goodrick]

Most of the golden 80s wuxia serials from TVB are better than the novels. LOCH82 is much better than the novel.

I haven't read the novel so I wouldn't know. But I agree LOCH 1983 was really well made. Almost flawless. But I am sure a lot of people who have read the novel will take objection to your statement suggesting a LOCH adaptation has surpassed the novel. So I commend you for stirring the pot

[wkeej]

Have not read a single novel in my life. The latest ROCH (China series) which I watch 2 episodes is so different from the early adaptations. Even R = Romance instead of Return. It talks about the young life of Li Mochu. Not sure whether it is good/bad - the only consolation is LMC looks so much prettier than XLN (with the two buns) in that series.

[goodrick]

Have not read a single novel in my life. The latest ROCH (China series) which I watch 2 episodes is so different from the early adaptations. Even R = Romance instead of Return. It talks about the young life of Li Mochu. Not sure whether it is good/bad - the only consolation is LMC looks so much prettier than XLN (with the two buns) in that series.

Yea, they picked a really good looking LMC in that ROCH 2014 series. I thought it was good adaptation. I did not like XLN all that much in this series. But overall it was a good series. You should definitely try to watch it if you can and when you have time.

[Doc Kwok]

I haven't read the novel so I wouldn't know. But I agree LOCH 1983 was really well made. Almost flawless. But I am sure a lot of people who have read the novel will take objection to your statement suggesting a LOCH adaptation has surpassed the novel. So I commend you for stirring the pot

Who here has actually read the entire novel (original or translated) and thought that LOCH '82 was better overall?

For me, I first watched LOCH '82, then '94, then read the original novel. When I watched LOCH '82 I thought it was the bee's knees. When I watched '94, I thought it was okay, but felt a bit bland and rushed. Then I read the novel, and discovered that '94 was actually far closer than '82, and the bits that were 'left out' of '94 were actually filler added by TVB. The story was much tighter and coherent, with much more depth. Looking back at LOCH '82, much of it ends up looking pretty shallow, with many of the important plot points covered in a perfunctory manner, large bits of filler that end up going nowhere at all, and changes made for apparently no reason at all.

Having watched parts of it last year, the presentation is seriously dated by modern standards. The special-effects are crude and 'fake', and the fighting is utterly unconvincing (too slow, too obviously choreographed). The worst part was probably GJ and HR's fight against Qiu Qianzhang's robots made out of faux wooden boxes - that was silly even by '80s standards!

[goodrick]

Who here has actually read the entire novel (original or translated) and thought that LOCH '82 was better overall?

For me, I first watched LOCH '82, then '94, then read the original novel. When I watched LOCH '82 I thought it was the bee's knees. When I watched '94, I thought it was okay, but felt a bit bland and rushed. Then I read the novel, and discovered that '94 was actually far closer than '82, and the bits that were 'left out' of '94 were actually filler added by TVB. The story was much tighter and coherent, with much more depth. Looking back at LOCH '82, much of it ends up looking pretty shallow, with many of the important plot points covered in a perfunctory manner, large bits of filler that end up going nowhere at all, and changes made for apparently no reason at all.

Having watched parts of it last year, the presentation is seriously dated by modern standards. The special-effects are crude and 'fake', and the fighting is utterly unconvincing (too slow, too obviously choreographed). The worst part was probably GJ and HR's fight against Qiu Qianzhang's robots made out of faux wooden boxes - that was silly even by '80s standards!

I think this just emphasizes the point that I made in an earlier post and I find it so true. People just cannot get themselves to appreciate adaptations/movies once they have read the novel. The adaptation just never lives up to their expectation that they build after reading the novel. I mean up until the point that you had not read the novel, you though LOCH 1983 was perfect. Or bee's knees as you called it. But the minute you read the novel and went back to LOCH 1983, what was once bee's knees to you suddenly became " pretty shallow, with many of the important plot points covered in a perfunctory manner, large bits of filler that end up going nowhere at all, and changes made for apparently no reason at all. Presentation seriously dated by modern standards. The special-effects are crude and 'fake', and the fighting is utterly unconvincing (too slow, too obviously choreographed). The worst part was probably GJ and HR's fight against Qiu Qianzhang's robots made out of faux wooden boxes - that was silly even by '80s standards! "

[goodrick]

I am not really a big fan of reading, so I avoid it by and large (not to say that I don't read books at all. I do). Also not reading helps me appreciate the adaptations a lot more I think. Also to me, the real test is not whether how close is a particular adaptation to the source material / original writing. As long as the personality of a character is retained, a deviation from the novel is not necessarily unacceptable. Only when directors or script writers decide to make a character do/say something so out of character do I feel an adaptation has stepped out of bounds. This is one of the reasons why I love LOCH 1983, although I understand that it took a lot of detours from Jin Yong's writing and is not very true to the original story or has "fillers" as Doc Kwok calls it.

[pannonian]

I am not really a big fan of reading, so I avoid it by and large (not to say that I don't read books at all. I do). Also not reading helps me appreciate the adaptations a lot more I think. Also to me, the real test is not whether how close is a particular adaptation to the source material / original writing. As long as the personality of a character is retained, a deviation from the novel is not necessarily unacceptable. Only when directors or script writers decide to make a character do/say something so out of character do I feel an adaptation has stepped out of bounds. This is one of the reasons why I love LOCH 1983, although I understand that it took a lot of detours from Jin Yong's writing and is not very true to the original story or has "fillers" as Doc Kwok calls it.

The second most important character in LOCH, Guo Jing's alter ego, is sold far short in LOCH 82. LOCH 03 does him justice.

[Ian Liew]

LOCH 82 and ROCH 84 had a lot of filler episodes which I really enjoyed back then - most of it didn't really add to the plot, but were more like fanservice, so we could see more of Barbara Yung's cuteness, or Andy Lau's charisma, and it was fun back then. When I rewatch it now, though, it does drag. For example, when watching Andy Lau pretend to be Wang Chongyang with that fake beard, I just kept thinking "what on earth is the point of this?". It's not so much that my mind has changed because I've read the novel, but mainly because I'm not as much a fan of Andy Lau as I was back then. By and large the changes don't really make a significant difference, and of course we allow for poor effects - after all, it was the early 80s. One thing I really hated about LOCH 82 was the way they changed Huang Yaoshi's grand entrance at Returning Spirit Villa. That was one of my favourite scenes in the novel (it was also handled quite poorly in LOCH 94 mainly due to Lok Ying Kwan's lack of charisma), and to drag on the Lu Guanying/Cheng Youjia subplot (as much as I loved Austin Wai) which ruined the Huang Yaoshi/Lu Chengfeng/Mei Chaofeng reunion is the biggest regret I have for the series.

One adaptation I watched where the changes really added to the story was Linked Cities 2004 starring Wu Yue and Shu Chang. It helps that the novel didn't give good enough closure in the first place (it's easier to improve on a weak novel rather than a great one) and the changes at the end were very, very satisfying! Watching Hua Tiegan, Wan Zhenshan and Wan Gui get their just desserts, rather than just have them all crushed and poisoned in the falling debris, felt good. Only Qi Changfa's fate remained unchanged, but he didn't come across as despicable as the others, even if he was the master manipulator behind much of it.

[goodrick]

One thing I really hated about LOCH 82 was the way they changed Huang Yaoshi's grand entrance at Returning Spirit Villa. That was one of my favourite scenes in the novel (it was also handled quite poorly in LOCH 94 mainly due to Lok Ying Kwan's lack of charisma), and to drag on the Lu Guanying/Cheng Youjia subplot (as much as I loved Austin Wai) which ruined the Huang Yaoshi/Lu Chengfeng/Mei Chaofeng reunion is the biggest regret I have for the series.

I haven't seen LOCH 1994 but when I saw LOCH 2003 and 2008, Huang Yaoshi had a really grand entrance. They completely botched that in LOCH 1983. Another thing I hated about Huang Yaoshi's entrance in LOCH 1983 is that he duels with Hong Qigong and is shown conceding to him/losing to him when Hong Qigong unleashes his Xianglong Shi Ba Zhang. From that point onwards it distorted my image of the greats and I saw that series assuming Hong Qigong > Huang Yaoshi

[Ken Cheng]

I haven't seen LOCH 1994 but when I saw LOCH 2003 and 2008, Huang Yaoshi had a really grand entrance. They completely botched that in LOCH 1983. Another thing I hated about Huang Yaoshi's entrance in LOCH 1983 is that he duels with Hong Qigong and is shown conceding to him/losing to him when Hong Qigong unleashes his Xianglong Shi Ba Zhang. From that point onwards it distorted my image of the greats and I saw that series assuming Hong Qigong > Huang Yaoshi

Wong Yerk See didn't lose that brief duel with Hung 7 Gung. He simply conceded a friendly, off-the-record sparring match that had no real meaning. If it had been the Mt. Hua Sword Tournament, Wong Yerk See would have conceded nothing unless he actually lost.

More impressively, Wong Yerk See basically no-sold Hong Lung 18 Palms, harmlessly dodging Hung 7 Gung's palm blast.

[goodrick]

Wong Yerk See didn't lose that brief duel with Hung 7 Gung. He simply conceded a friendly, off-the-record sparring match that had no real meaning. If it had been the Mt. Hua Sword Tournament, Wong Yerk See would have conceded nothing unless he actually lost.

More impressively, Wong Yerk See basically no-sold Hong Lung 18 Palms, harmlessly dodging Hung 7 Gung's palm blast.

Losing was probably not the word I should have used. Conceded the match sounds more appropriate. I never really understood why he conceded that match to Hong Qigong. To a naïve first time viewer like me (and that was my first exposure to wuxia) the impression that I got was Hong Qigong > Huang Yaoshi.
Where was Huang Yaoshi's pride. It seems so out of character for him to be conceding duels to his opponents when he was every bit as equal to Hong Qigong. To me it made no sense.

[Ian Liew]

Wong Yerk See didn't lose that brief duel with Hung 7 Gung. He simply conceded a friendly, off-the-record sparring match that had no real meaning. If it had been the Mt. Hua Sword Tournament, Wong Yerk See would have conceded nothing unless he actually lost.

More impressively, Wong Yerk See basically no-sold Hong Lung 18 Palms, harmlessly dodging Hung 7 Gung's palm blast.

That's the part when Mei Chaofeng was sitting on the ground, Hong Qigong fires off his Palms and Huang Yaoshi does that elegant backflip in slow-motion, removes his mask and flashes that charming grin while that grand brass ensemble plays in the background? I thought Huang Yaoshi owned that scene - neither man looked like they were going all out to win, and at the end it felt like honours even, just that Hong Qigong was this friendly smiling chap we've known for the past few episodes while Huang Yaoshi was this scary devil-mask chap who we're not sure is good or bad. It was obvious that Mei Chaofeng and Huang Rong were scared of him, and that made him even more scary.

[tape]

HSDS 86 did a good job on having a better ending than the novel imo. After most stuff was resolved the novel threw the Yuan Ming Elders back in for a last fight and a Zhu Er comes back from the dead. Despite everyone on the mountain being the elitest of elites, and on guard for enemies after a huge battle, she manages to flash around being spooky with even Wuji unable to catch a glimpse of her. When the heck did her 100th tier lightness skill become undetectable?

Then the bummer ending where Wuji is tricked into abdicating his position since he thought his friends betrayed him.

I rather liked the ending where everyone loved Wuji, but the millions of common sect members had a problem with Zhao Min, and the scene where Zhang Sanfeng shows his wisdom again by telling him to do whatever he feels is right. The throne or the woman he loves? The right choice is the choice you choose!

[tape]

That's the part when Mei Chaofeng was sitting on the ground, Hong Qigong fires off his Palms and Huang Yaoshi does that elegant backflip in slow-motion, removes his mask and flashes that charming grin while that grand brass ensemble plays in the background?

The detail of your description .

But yeah when I catch LOCH on every now and then it just reminds me that it's like hours of somewhat draggy scenes for a minute of awesomeness. Scenes like you mention still rank up there as some of my favorite things to watch, but the ratio of memorable/quality scenes to long, draggy ones is just too low for me to ever watch the whole thing again. If anything I'd figure out some scene I remember that was pretty awesome and watch around 20 minutes before it for some buildup. #retrowuxiaporn