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World Cup 2006
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Thread: World Cup 2006

  1. #1
    Senior Member Long's Avatar
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    Default World Cup 2006

    Okay don't know if there's already a thread. But let's talk soccer World Cup 2006.

    Who do you guys think will win it this time?

    Congrats to the Aussies? Yes finally after 32 years of heart break we're in.
    "Seems, madam! Nay it is, I know not seems!" - Hamlet, William Shakespeare

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    Possibly Brazil again.

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    Congrats to the Aussies? Yes finally after 32 years of heart break we're in.
    I've got to say, your coach, its Guus Hiddink isn't it?..........he is something special, also probably one of the most under-rated managers in world football..........took South Korea to WC semi-finals, then PSV Eindhoven to Champions league semi-finals and now Australia into its first World cup in decades.......everywhere he goes, he seems to succeed...............

    I think Germany will win the World cup.......home ground advantage to the losing finalists in 2002 will tip it for them this time...........

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big AL Cho
    I've got to say, your coach, its Guus Hiddink isn't it?..........he is something special, also probably one of the most under-rated managers in world football..........took South Korea to WC semi-finals, then PSV Eindhoven to Champions league semi-finals and now Australia into its first World cup in decades.......everywhere he goes, he seems to succeed...............

    I think Germany will win the World cup.......home ground advantage to the losing finalists in 2002 will tip it for them this time...........
    Germany? Hahaha

    If there are no injuries or nonsense as seen in Korea with all the bad calls, Brazil should OWN.

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    As with all World Cups - I'll reserve my comments until I see the draw.

    It is an unrated factor - but the draw has much to say about which teams you'll meet and how far you can progress.

    For example - there's always a "group of death" that claims one of the big teams in every World Cup.

    In 2002, it was the group featuring England, Argentina, Nigeria and Sweden which claimed Argentina as a casuality in the first round.
    "Seems, madam! Nay it is, I know not seems!" - Hamlet, William Shakespeare

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    Quote Originally Posted by Long
    As with all World Cups - I'll reserve my comments until I see the draw.

    It is an unrated factor - but the draw has much to say about which teams you'll meet and how far you can progress.

    For example - there's always a "group of death" that claims one of the big teams in every World Cup.

    In 2002, it was the group featuring England, Argentina, Nigeria and Sweden which claimed Argentina as a casuality in the first round.
    Brazil has Ronaldo, Adriano, Ronaldinho, Kaka, roberto carlos, and Robinho... you can't lose with fire power like that.

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    NooOO Not brazil again !! It's gonna be that powerful angola !!


    It's early days, but I don't believe brazil will win it again. There is always the element of surprise involve, among other factors.. dont want to get too long winded

    Football is an unpredictable and exciting sport, so bring on the world cup !!

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    Holland, Total Football rules !!!
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    unless they rig the world cup like they did in france for gambling purposes, and rig it like they did in Korea, there is no way Brazil can lose. Only Brazil can beat Brazil (meaning they are paid off to lose.)

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    hey.. watch your words there.. brazil didnt accept bribes in France 98.. Ronaldo was injured but forced to play.. and it's not as if you can just go up to some footballer and write a cheque of $150,000 without getting caught by the police.


    And they didnt rig it in korea either.. yes some of the results and referees were surprising, but that only goes to prove that football is evolving and nothing else.

    Please don't undermine the integrity of these footballers. They are not allowed to place bets on matches they are playing in..
    Last edited by soccerfeva; 11-20-05 at 06:18 AM.

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    Any major team cna win it. It's just a matter of if it's there day or not. Argentina on their days can flog brazil, france on their days can crush brazil, in 2002 brazil was the best team, but in 98 france was better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by soccerfeva
    hey.. watch your words there.. brazil didnt accept bribes in France 98.. Ronaldo was injured but forced to play.. and it's not as if you can just go up to some footballer and write a cheque of $150,000 without getting caught by the police.


    And they didnt rig it in korea either.. yes some of the results and referees were surprising, but that only goes to prove that football is evolving and nothing else.

    Please don't undermine the integrity of these footballers. They are not allowed to place bets on matches they are playing in..
    Watch my words, you're funny, how about I triple my words and throw it back to you? You ever heard of political corruption. Police can't do anything if the politicians control the outcomes. Important people and officials can easily handle this kinda thing if they really wanted to. Who is to stop them? The FBI, they probably have people in on it too? Money can alter anything. Korea beating Italy, Portugal, Spain on questionable calls? Goals disallowed? Man, don't you follow the olympics? remember when a judge got hell for rigging the results of a figure skating pairs final?

    Ever heard of the Chicago Black Sox in 1912 ? WHen the world series was rigged? Where was the police on that one?

    France that year had a C-R-A-P-P-Y offense. Brazil was clearly the strongest team, beating Holland, etc, etc. yet they lose to France 4-0? come on. Doesn't take an idiot to figure out something was wrong. How can a team so strong play so crappy in the most important game in the whole tournament. I understand in sports, flukes happen, but this was ridiculous. Had France won 1-0, even 2-0, ok fine. But 4-0?

    I just knew the odds were very high for like 10:1 or 20:1 for France to win. Suspecting something foul would have happened, I wagered 1000 on Brazil and 500 on France..i won so much off that game, and I'm sure some powerful people wagered a lot more and got a lot more.

    You think it is regular people who rig this by writing a cheque to footballers? It's obviously someone really powerful.. For instance if i was part of the brazillian government, and I told Ronaldo I'll kill his family if he doesn't play like crap, you think he will call the cops on me? He calls the cops there is a chance that 1. The cops won't do shit and 2. I kill his family anyways, i'm probably rich and powerful already so all I gotta do move to another country when the police come but Ronaldo loses his family..tell me who loses more?...so naive
    Last edited by Panadol; 11-20-05 at 06:53 PM.

  13. #13

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    A couple of points of contention. First of all, the White Sox threw the World Series in 1919. And it'd do wise to remember the scoreline of said Final, it was 3-0. Two first half headers from corners by Zidane followed by an injury time goal by Petit.

    But that is a wholely separate issue from what happend to Brazil in 1998. The White Sox players did not agree to lose the whole thing, only "a game or two here and there" but ended up in such a state that they ended up either just losing or throwing the whole thing. Also, those guys threw the game because they were so grossly underpaid as a professional team. These guys had to pay for laundry on their own uniforms, got only $3 for meals on the road, and was often benched as they approached bonuses in their contracts. To cite that as an example for "it could happen" in '98, somebody would had to have offered the Brazillian team HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS to each member.

    Also, why would the Brazilian government fix the game for the French? It makes no sense. If you claim that the French government is the suspect party, then at least it makes some small sense (but still not much b/c none of the players on Brazil's squad was playing in France at the time).

    You cited the betting lines before the game as evidence FOR a fix. But it's actually perfect evidence AGAINST such a plot. The fact that the betting lines did not change is DAMNING against your claims. The surest sign that something is wrong with a match is if the betting lines suddenly start to jump around because the gamblers are always the first ones to know. Think about it, the casinos/bookies aren't stupid, if massive money suddenly came in for France, the odds would change immediately and dramatically. In fact, that was the tipoff for EVERY CASE in which a fix was suspected/proved. For example, the day before the 1919 World Series, the odds went from 4:1 for the White Sox to EVEN. Was that the case with the 1998 WC? No. Meaning that the money that came in for France would have been covered by the money that came in for Brazil. Just because you didn't think about the ins and outs of this enough but made some money off of betting on BOTH sides doesn't make for a fix, just dumb luck.

    Also, to say that France wasn't good enough to beat Brazil is ludicrous as well. Brazil LOST to NORWAY in the same World Cup. Things happen. France had no offense that World Cup? I have to disagree there. They had probably the best midfield in the tourney, their problem the entire tourney was a lack of finishing up front (this was still the Dugarry era). But since the scorers that Final was Zidane and Petit (midfielders), it solved the problem for France, especially that first Zidane goal. But nevertheless, during the Group Stages, France scored 9 goals, Brazil scored 6 and somehow suddenly France couldn't score 3 goals in a game without a fix? Brazil scored 14 goals before the Final, France scored 12. France had a "C-R-A-P-P-Y" attack? They lacked a clear goalscorer in front of the goal, but to say that the attack was "C-R-A-P-P-Y" is an exaggeration.

    Against Paraguay they didn't have Zidane, so the creative force behind the team was gone, and Italy was, well, Italy, I doube very much Brazil would have put more than 1 goal past the Italian defense that year. Brazil lucked out in the knockout stages because they faced 3 teams that does not focus on defense: Chile, Denmark, and the Netherlands. But still, against a quality Dutch side, they only scored one goal in 120 minutes. Not counting the Final, they played 6 games the entire tournament, they only beat 2 teams by more than 1 goal. Their record was 4-1-1 with a GD of 7, while France was 5-0-1 with a GD of 10 (for comparison, Italy was 3-0-2 with a GD of 4, Argentina is 4-1-0 with a GD of 6). And suddenly Brazil was "invincible"? "Clearly the strongest team"?

    Would "the strongest team" allow 2 goals to Denmark? Would "the strongest team" lose to Norway? Would "the strongest" team beat SCOTLAND (!) by 2-1 (and show distinct lack of attack against them, not to mention getting away with a handball in the penalty box in the waning minutes)? Would "the strongest team" need Taffarel (!) to save their behind against a CLEARLY BETTER Dutch squad? (A Dutch squad, I should point out, that lost to a Croatia team that France allowed only one clear scoring chance to in the 3rd place match.) Get off your high horse, you CLEARLY did not watch that World Cup to know which team was "the strongest team", either that or you didn't know how good a team was. Was Brazil better than France? I thought so too and picked them to win. But to say that it had to be a fix is ignorant and stupid.

    Lastly, and this is with regards to the South Korea's run in 2002. While I agree that the officiating absolutely stunk in the matches against Italy and Spain, I attribute that more towards favoring the home team by the officials than anything else (a common occurence even in the best leagues, EPL officials are often accused of such bias). However, the match against Portugal was clean, nobody ever claimed anything "fishy" about that match (and since it was a draw, I don't see why your brought it up). Also, Totti DID dive and deserved a yellow. The truth is the Italians had just the worst luck that year (had, if I recall correctly, 2 or 3 goals disallowed incorrectly BEFORE the match against Korea). And they were to "fix" the matches, why just the Korean matches? Why not the Japanese and the Chinese matches as well? And why stop at Germany and the semis? Surely if they "fixed" the Finals in 1998 they could "fix" the semis in 2002. Unless, of course, the truth is that neither happened.
    Last edited by Moinllieon; 11-20-05 at 10:39 PM.
    春花秋月几时了,
    往事知多少?
    小楼昨夜又东风,
    故国不堪回首明月中.
    雕栏玉砌应犹在,
    只是朱颜改.
    问君能有几多愁,
    恰似一江春水向东流.
    --南唐后主,李煜.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Long's Avatar
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    I have no doubt that 'dodgy' things can happen in sports at the right price. That aside it would also take someone who loves taking risks to actually go through with it.

    I've watched every World Cup match since 1990 and can say this. Here are the games I always thought to be highly suspect:

    1. Italy 90' the finals match of Argentina versus Germany was indeed suspect. The referees favoured Germany a lot - not to mention Argentina was reduced to 9 men for simple fouls and Germany got away with murder - including the dive by Klinsman.

    2. USA 94' - Germany versus Belgium (Yes - please note the Germans again!). Once again - blanted handballs in the penalty box going un-noticed (unless of course you were the unlucky Belgium player who got pulled up for it). Clear Belguim penalty claims being turned down by the referee. Suspicious red cards awarded to Belgium players when Germany were getting away with murder. THE REFEREE LATER WAS PULLED UP AND ADMITTED TO TAKING A BRIBE YEARS LATER BUT WOULDN'T SAY THE SOURCE OF THE BRIBE.

    3. France 98' - Nigeria's 3-1 lost to Paraguay at the group stage to eliminate Spain. Nigeria who were sizzling - suddenly played poorly against a Paraguay side that didn't even look like scoring all tournament. Attacking minded Nigeria sat back and allowed the South Americans to shoot at will. A Paraguay win meant that France would avoid Spain in the second round. France were the beneficaries here. And there were claims that Platini had engineered this path for France - also if memory serves correct there were calls from other countries (not Spain) for the FIFA President to call an inquiry into this match.

    4. Japan/South Korea 2002' - England versus Nigeria (yes Nigeria again). Standing no chance to get through the group stage, Nigeria should have been a team playing free flowing and courful football. Win/loss didn't matter anymore. Yet surporisingly Nigeria didn't even attack the English, but instead sat back as if to say to England - here please beat us (and pay us!). There were calls also for FIFA to investigate Nigeria after the tournament. Remember at both the 98' and 2002' tournament Nigeria players were arguing over late payments (and thus needed cash).
    "Seems, madam! Nay it is, I know not seems!" - Hamlet, William Shakespeare

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Long
    I have no doubt that 'dodgy' things can happen in sports at the right price. That aside it would also take someone who loves taking risks to actually go through with it.

    I've watched every World Cup match since 1990 and can say this. Here are the games I always thought to be highly suspect:

    1. Italy 90' the finals match of Argentina versus Germany was indeed suspect. The referees favoured Germany a lot - not to mention Argentina was reduced to 9 men for simple fouls and Germany got away with murder - including the dive by Klinsman.

    2. USA 94' - Germany versus Belgium (Yes - please note the Germans again!). Once again - blanted handballs in the penalty box going un-noticed (unless of course you were the unlucky Belgium player who got pulled up for it). Clear Belguim penalty claims being turned down by the referee. Suspicious red cards awarded to Belgium players when Germany were getting away with murder. THE REFEREE LATER WAS PULLED UP AND ADMITTED TO TAKING A BRIBE YEARS LATER BUT WOULDN'T SAY THE SOURCE OF THE BRIBE.

    3. France 98' - Nigeria's 3-1 lost to Paraguay at the group stage to eliminate Spain. Nigeria who were sizzling - suddenly played poorly against a Paraguay side that didn't even look like scoring all tournament. Attacking minded Nigeria sat back and allowed the South Americans to shoot at will. A Paraguay win meant that France would avoid Spain in the second round. France were the beneficaries here. And there were claims that Platini had engineered this path for France - also if memory serves correct there were calls from other countries (not Spain) for the FIFA President to call an inquiry into this match.

    4. Japan/South Korea 2002' - England versus Nigeria (yes Nigeria again). Standing no chance to get through the group stage, Nigeria should have been a team playing free flowing and courful football. Win/loss didn't matter anymore. Yet surporisingly Nigeria didn't even attack the English, but instead sat back as if to say to England - here please beat us (and pay us!). There were calls also for FIFA to investigate Nigeria after the tournament. Remember at both the 98' and 2002' tournament Nigeria players were arguing over late payments (and thus needed cash).
    I'm much more inclined to believe something akin to tacit agreement to an outcome of a match in the Group Stages, like the 2 examples you've cited involving Nigeria. I'd like to point out that the biggest beneficiaries both times were the teams they were playing against, Paraguay and England. In Group Stages, especially when both teams could benefit from a certain result, it's always a bit interesting that result will almost invariably come about.

    However, I am much more in doubt that such things are possible on a player level once the knockout rounds start. The riches that players would win for success in the World Cup should overshadow any amount of money that people could offer. Say even someone like Roman Abramnovich comes in, it's not like the player won't get the money in endorsements or better contracts from other clubs. Of course, the bribed/biased/bad official is always a possibility. But in the Group Stage, where throwing a game sometimes doesn't matter as much, it could definitely happen.

    Also, I'd like to state that I disagree with your assestment of the '90 Final. In truth, it was the worst World Cup I've ever seen, brutal tackling, cynical diving, and absolutely no inclination to attack from almost any squad. True, 2 Argentine players were sent off, but both of them fully deserved it (truthfully, half of the players on the field deserved to be sent off). Maradona dove, Klinsman dove, it was a tough match to officiate (tough tournament in general), I felt the ref did the best he could under the circumstance.
    Last edited by Moinllieon; 11-21-05 at 12:25 AM.
    春花秋月几时了,
    往事知多少?
    小楼昨夜又东风,
    故国不堪回首明月中.
    雕栏玉砌应犹在,
    只是朱颜改.
    问君能有几多愁,
    恰似一江春水向东流.
    --南唐后主,李煜.

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    Andy Lau made a movie about fixing the World Cup. In France 98. So there must be some truth to it. It isn't all ignorant and not supported with facts. There are a lot of people that support the theory i am presenting.

    They had to give one back to Brazil. Korea got to the semis, Germany scored that goal, koreans couldn't do jack. THey can't make it too obvious. I think the plan was to have Brazil vs. Korea. Or may be they just wanted to get Korea to a certain point and then let there be fair play.

    Brazil was so not the favorite last world cup, yet they had the best luck of the draw I'll admit that.....

    On an unrelated note, this time boasts their strongest team since the loss in 90' in Italy. I just can't see them losing unless it's by pure fluke or through PK. In the last 3 world cups Brazil has won 2. So they are the best team in the world.

    I'm calling Brazil this world cup. That is all. I don't want to start any unnecessary flames for speaking my mind.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Panadol
    Andy Lau made a movie about fixing the World Cup. In France 98. So there must be some truth to it. It isn't all ignorant and not supported with facts. There are a lot of people that support the theory i am presenting.

    They had to give one back to Brazil. Korea got to the semis, Germany scored that goal, koreans couldn't do jack. THey can't make it too obvious. I think the plan was to have Brazil vs. Korea. Or may be they just wanted to get Korea to a certain point and then let there be fair play.

    Brazil was so not the favorite last world cup, yet they had the best luck of the draw I'll admit that.....
    Andy Lau also made a movie about a bodybuilder/stripper who can see people's past and another movie about a cult trying to bring about the end of the world by spontaneously combusting leading scientists. What's your point?

    I give you a breakdown of every single evidence you've presented as well as offering other arguments against your assertion based on facts and an overall analysis of the tournament, and all you can give me is that Andy Lau made a movie about someone fixing World Cup? I'm sorry but that's a very weak response dude.

    "They" had to give Brazil one back? "They" couldn't make it obvious? Who are "they" to begin with? And why do "they" owe Brazil anything? If anybody is rich and powerful enough to fix World Cups like this, "they" don't need to owe anyone anything. In your last post, you described a situation where a powerful figure can pressure Ronaldo into throwing the 98 Final, why would said powerful figure feel as if he/she "owed" Ronaldo/Brazil anything? Once again, this is a very very weak argument.

    And judging from your assestment that Brazil was "clearly the strongest team" and France was "C-R-A-P-P-Y" in 1998 (so crappy in fact they won the 2000 EuroCup), I don't trust your judgement on the Brazilian squad's strength. Especially since Brazil was clearly the best team in 2002 and you go about, saying they "were not so favoured".

    The 2006 squard the best since Italia 90? Why not go back to 1982? The squad in Italia 90 was a very poor squard by Brazilian standards, very little attacking and very much cynical defending (Romario did not even play against Argentina).
    Last edited by Moinllieon; 11-21-05 at 02:23 AM.
    春花秋月几时了,
    往事知多少?
    小楼昨夜又东风,
    故国不堪回首明月中.
    雕栏玉砌应犹在,
    只是朱颜改.
    问君能有几多愁,
    恰似一江春水向东流.
    --南唐后主,李煜.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moinllieon
    Andy Lau also made a movie about a bodybuilder/stripper who can see people's past and another movie about a cult trying to bring about the end of the world by spontaneously combusting leading scientists. What's your point?

    I give you a breakdown of every single evidence you've presented as well as offering other arguments against your assertion based on facts and an overall analysis of the tournament, and all you can give me is that Andy Lau made a movie about someone fixing World Cup? I'm sorry but that's a very weak response dude.

    "They" had to give Brazil one back? "They" couldn't make it obvious? Who are "they" to begin with? And why do "they" owe Brazil anything? If anybody is rich and powerful enough to fix World Cups like this, "they" don't need to owe anyone anything. In your last post, you described a situation where a powerful figure can pressure Ronaldo into throwing the 98 Final, why would said powerful figure feel as if he/she "owed" Ronaldo/Brazil anything? Once again, this is a very very weak argument.

    And judging from your assestment that Brazil was "clearly the strongest team" and France was "C-R-A-P-P-Y" in 1998 (so crappy in fact they won the 2000 EuroCup), I don't trust your judgement on the Brazilian squad's strength. Especially since Brazil was clearly the best team in 2002 and you go about, saying they "were not so favoured".

    The 2006 squard the best since Italia 90? Why not go back to 1982? The squad in Italia 90 was a very poor squard by Brazilian standards, very little attacking and very much cynical defending (Romario did not even play against Argentina).
    Sorry my mistake I mean '82.. Was it 82? I just remember there was this one year when they were very very good, but didn't manage to win or was that 86? The year when Argentina thought for sure they'd lose...but some how won


    yeah you got me there, i did say that before. well I'm a bias person i love that brazillian team what can i say. can't blame me for supporting my team. Fact is Brazil won 2002, and they will win 2006 (if they do not make the finals, I will probably bet on the team that does end up winning). does not have to be logical or make any sense.

    No argument can take away the fact that Brazil won the world cup just like I guess how i can't take away the fact that France won 98. Regardless of how you look at it, both instances, I won money off gambling...and in the end, that is the most important...i am not a pro analyst, a lot of times i just bet with who i feel right, and if not i bet both, to cover my spread. This way I always win or never lose. But i give u credit where it is due, you got me. I was wrong and my methods aren't the most logical, but hey I am not a lawyer, I am not good with arguments and debates, don't need to be, i have lawyers to do that for me. I pay them with the money I make at my job and from sport gambling...two things I'm very good at. Whatever works right?

    just like today how i won big off betting underdogs in NFL. Pittsburgh losing to ravens, Bears beat Panthers, i love it.

    In my heart I love Brazil, but when it comes to the facts, I love money more...and I have yet to lose (i do lose but I win more than I lose) money in sport gambling.
    Last edited by Panadol; 11-21-05 at 02:50 AM.

  19. #19

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    Yeah, whatever works.

    The 1982 squad lost to Paolo Rossi's hat trick in a great game. It was probably the best attacking squad Brazil ever sent to a World Cup, Zico, Socrates, etc. But they didn't defend at all and that came back to beat them against Rossi and Italy.

    The 1986 squad was almost as good, but lost to Platini and France in one of the best matches in the history of World Cup. On the other hand, that was also Maradona's World Cup, I have some serious doubts about whether Brazil could have even hoped to stop Maradona. It wasn't that Argentina thought for sure they'd lose, just that nobody knew Maradona was Maradona before the tournament started.
    春花秋月几时了,
    往事知多少?
    小楼昨夜又东风,
    故国不堪回首明月中.
    雕栏玉砌应犹在,
    只是朱颜改.
    问君能有几多愁,
    恰似一江春水向东流.
    --南唐后主,李煜.

  20. #20
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    Seriously u brazilian fanboys, France was the World Champions in 1998, hands down, they out played brazil. end of story. And who ever says France had a shit attack that yr u gotta be kidding urself.

    Henry, Tegeguet, Anelka, Dugarry, and 1 random. hows that weak.

    In my opinion Brazil should'nt even of won against netherland, netherland should of gone through. either way France was the dominant force from 1998 till 2002.

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