The fathers of Gwok Jing and Yeung Hong, Gwok Siu Teen and Yeung Teet Sum respectively, were definitely martial artists. They each had good fighting skills that made them far more formidable than average men. Nevertheless, they were far weaker than any other fighters in LEGEND OF THE CONDOR HEROES (indeed, they were among the weakest martial artists in the entire Jin Yong canon). Not only were they not comparable to the Greats, but even comparative wulin mediocrites of their era such as the Gong Nam 7 Freaks towered over them. As such, should Gwok Siu Teen and Yeung Teet Sum be considered wulin men despite their martial arts skills? They seemed quite ignorant of wulin affairs. They knew who Yau Chui Gei was, but I don't think they'd even heard of the Greats. It's hard to classify Gwok Siu Teen and Yeung Teet Sum because they weren't military men either. They were patriots, but neither was a soldier of the Sung army (and as soldiers, they'd be super-soldiers because their fighting skills were much better than any common Sung soldier's). They seemed to be fringe martial artists...not wulin men, but not soldiers either. Where do they fit?