How much can a Wuxia master lift?

[Mojo Jojo]

What is the most amount of weight that a Wuxia master can lift? The most that I'm aware of is LOCH2003 where Qiu Chuji lifts a gigantiv urn full of wine with one hand and is able to throw if a large distance (I'm not sure if this is in the novel). Presumably, people with greater inner power would be able to lift more.

[Yang Guo]

If I recall correctly, Zhang Wu Ji fought with a big rock

[Mojo Jojo]

Do you think a Great could lift 1 ton? More than that? Or less than that?

[LuNaR]

i'll say 50 pounds considering they are all 60 years old. they hav strong intenral energy, not muscle lol.

[Ken Cheng]

i'll say 50 pounds considering they are all 60 years old. they hav strong intenral energy, not muscle lol.

In wuxia fiction, that hardly made a difference. Skinny, nerdy-looking men with great inner power often performed feats of physical strength that awed muscle-bound men with no internal energy training.

[FruityPunch]

i'll say 50 pounds considering they are all 60 years old. they hav strong intenral energy, not muscle lol.

That's an understatement, really. 16-yr old Huang Rong probably weighed more than that.

There were fighters who could deliver forces equivalent to a few thousand catties to their opponents. Each catty approximated to one metric pound or 500 grams.

Zhang Wuji could fight with a rock because he had immerse internal strength. Ouyang Feng probably couldn't manage the same feat. He had difficulty lifting a huge rock off the ground to save the crushed legs of Ouyang Ke.

Anyone knows the actual weight of the two rocks?

[Ken Cheng]

Zhang Wuji could fight with a rock because he had immerse internal strength. Ouyang Feng probably couldn't manage the same feat. He had difficulty lifting a huge rock off the ground to save the crushed legs of Ouyang Ke.

Hmmm. But as a Great, West Poison Au Yeung Fung's inner power shouldn't be far inferior to Cheung Mo Gei's. The 9 Yeung Jen Ging might have been a superior inner power building system to Ha Mo Gung, but the difference shouldn't have been tremendous.

[FruityPunch]

Hmmm. But as a Great, West Poison Au Yeung Fung's inner power shouldn't be far inferior to Cheung Mo Gei's. The 9 Yeung Jen Ging might have been a superior inner power building system to Ha Mo Gung, but the difference shouldn't have been tremendous.

Actually, Zhang Wuji had already mastered 100% of 9-Yang prior to the Battle Of Guangming Summit credits to some freak incident within a certain air-vacuum bag, while all Ouyang Feng got was a fake version of 9-Yin.

The best measurement of the time it would have taken to master a complete 9 Yang/9 Yin internal strength cultivation would be to gauge:


- The time it took for Guo Jing to transform from an Wulin rookie to a Great through practising of 9-Yin.

- The actual time it would have taken Zhang Wuji to master 100% of 9-Yang.



If Ouyang Feng was that good in the first place, he wouldn't have needed to spend time plotting after GJ and HR's version of 9 Yin.

I would say, Zhang Wuji's internal strength was almost as good as HYS (beginning of ROCH) and OYF (just before he died) combined, possibly nearing to the level of DGSD's Xu Zhu.

The only reason why he was categorised among the ROCH's Greats was his fighting ability. He had very poor fighting instincts. I remember him sitting on top (?) of the fake Shi Huolong (Beggar's Gang Chief in HSDS) using the freaky Persian kungfu while Miss Yang was staring coldly at him, not daring to come down because he was afraid Shi would sneak an attack.

Anyway, I could only remember 4 fighters whose internal energy were good enough to form some sort of protective shield around their body. They were:

1. Sweeper (DGSD)
2. Xu Zhu (DGSD)
3. Zhang Wuji (HSDS)
4. Shi Potian (OTG)

Maybe there were others, as well. But I don't think OYF can be classified among that category. His internal strength was clearly inferior to that of 30-yr old Guo Jing when they first matched palms at the beginning of ROCH.

[Ken Cheng]

If Ouyang Feng was that good in the first place, he wouldn't have needed to spend time plotting after GJ and HR's version of 9 Yin.

Well, several things. Au Yeung Fung was a paranoid egomaniac and also, the Greats of LOCH had a problem of perpetual parity with one another. No matter how much any one of them improved with their native martial arts skills and inner power, the others always seemed to improve just as much. Each of them needed something to break the parity and that something was the 9 Yum Jen Ging.

[Exodus]

Your are way overestimating ZWJ internal energy. You could argue that he may be better than the other greats in terms of internal, but HYS and OYF combined . Besides DY, TSTL and her martial brother and sister better than ZWJ in every department!

[FruityPunch]

I didn't say "better", I said "almost as good". DY not counting, I don't think TSTL's inner strength was better than ZWJ. I'm not talking about martial arts or fighting talents here, I'm talking about inner strength.

Zhang Wuji could fight with a rock because he had immerse internal strength. Ouyang Feng probably couldn't manage the same feat. He had difficulty lifting a huge rock off the ground to save the crushed legs of Ouyang Ke.

What is your perception of this?

[Ken Cheng]

Zhang Wuji could fight with a rock because he had immerse internal strength. Ouyang Feng probably couldn't manage the same feat. He had difficulty lifting a huge rock off the ground to save the crushed legs of Ouyang Ke.

What is your perception of this?

Hard to be certain unless we can come up with some quantitative comparison of the relative mass/weights of the two rocks in question. Both were massive and heavy rocks, no doubt, but not necessarily of similar mass and weight. I imagine the one that Cheung Mo Gei used was still small enough to not be excessively unwieldy as a weapon (regardless of how much strength Cheung Mo Gei had, it was still an awkward mass for him to be swinging around). The one that crushed Au Yeung Hak's legs, however, I picture to be the size of a small house.

Interesting theory on Cheung Mo Gei's inner power level...and one that I haven't previously read about before. I hope a few other novel readers weigh in with their observations on that.

[Exodus]

it says nothing about the weight and how big the rock was that ZWJ was lifting. But seriously it couldn't be heavier than the one that crushed OYF's son.

[FruityPunch]

it says nothing about the weight and how big the rock was that ZWJ was lifting. But seriously it couldn't be heavier than the one that crushed OYF's son.

Yes, I also felt that it couldn't be heavier than the rock that crushed OYK. However;


Chapter 21 (HSDS)

高老者游目四周，想要找一件最不称手的兵刃给他，突然看到广石一指，呵呵大笑。这些大石每块总有二三百斤， 力气小些的连搬也搬不动，何况长期来给人当作凳坐，四周光溜溜的，无可着手之处，怎能作为兵刃？高老者原意 是出个难题，开开玩笑，最好对方给挤兑住了，知难而退，比武之事就此作罢。不料张无忌微微一笑，说道：“这 件兵刃倒也别致，老前辈是考我的功夫来着。”说着走到石块之前，左手伸出，抄起一块大石，托在手里，说道： “两位请！”话声甫毕，连身带石一跃而起，纵到了两个老者的身前。众人只瞧得张大了口，连喝彩也 忘记了。

Basically it revealed that:

The rock used by Zhang Wuji to engage in battle with some martial artists was about 2-3 hundred catties. Smiling, ZWJ used his left hand (singlehandedly) to pull the rock out. He even had time to talk crap, while exhibiting his lightness kungfu, flying towards the two exponents. The people present were so amazed, they even forget to clap and cheer.

He could talk while using his "chi" to manoeuvre the rock. That says a lot about his level of inner strength.



ZWU basically didn't just lift a rock with one hand (and a left hand at that), he fought with it against two top fighters, while surpassing them in terms of speed and raw power.

张无忌施展九阳神功，将大石托在手里运转如意。...

ZWJ utilised his 9-Yang Divine Skill, wielding the rock with ease.

<snip> 众人失声惊呼声中，张无忌纵身上前，左掌扬出，将大石推出丈余，砰的一声，落在地下，陷入泥中有几尺余。他 伸手在二老肩头轻轻拍了几下，微笑道：“得罪了！晚辈跟两位开个玩笑。”他这么一拍，高矮老者被封的穴道登 时解了。矮老者脸如死灰，叹道：“罢了，罢了！”...

When ZWJ stretched his left hand, he pushed the rock several "zhang" away. With a bang, the rock was buried several "chi" deep. He smiled, patting the two elders lightly:" Please pardon me, seniors! I was just joking with you." The pat was sufficient enough to release the pressure points of the two elders which were previously sealed blah blah blah...




ZWJ fought with a heavy rock against two reasonably skillful fighters who were armed with weapons, therefore he had to at least match them for pace/speed. In fact, he subdued them quite quickly.

OYF was only required to lift a rock up for a few seconds so that someone (Huang Rong) could drag OYK out. And he had the help of GJ, bark ropes, and the advantage of height, usage of trees as levers, etc.



Edit:

Okay, I've re-read the part where OYF's legs were crushed. Here's the description of the size of the rock in question:

Chapter 21 (LOCH)

只见头顶是座险峻之极的悬崖，崖边顶上另有一座小山般的巨岩。那岩石恰好一半搁在崖上，一半伸出崖外，左右 微微晃动，眼见时时都能掉下。崖上有无数粗藤蜿蜒盘缠，她刚才脚上所绊的藤枝，就与巨岩旁的沙石相连。倘若 踏中的是与巨岩相连的藤枝，这块不知有几万斤重的巨岩掉将下来，立时就被压成一团肉酱了。

The rock was described as the size of a small mountain, and it was probably tens of thousands of catties heavy.

I've also removed the part where GJ lamented (claimed) that if H7G was around, they probably could combine their strength to dislodge the massive rock, because I havent read the entire chapter (I don't think I would). Maybe it was a series adaption. (?)

Back to topic:

So basically, a fighter with high inner strength could easily lift a huge rock equivalent to a few hundred catties singlehandedly (with left hand), using it as an offensive weapon. Other than Zhang Wuji, who else managed that feat in JY's novels?

[yittz]

The one on OYK's legs is more like a boulder.

For ZWJ's rock: 这些大石每块总有二三百斤 100-150 kgs, which is roughly 30-40cm dimensions.

2 grown man and a girl (GJ, OYF, HR) can lift that, or at least roll it off. With kungfu, it would hardly be a problem - why go through with all the tree pulling, water lifting stuff? IMO, ZWJ's 150kg rock should not be a problem for OYK in the first place - he can push it off and its too small to trap him underneath.

Ah found it. OYK's 'rock': 论这三推之力，实是非同小可，但那巨岩重达数万斤，岂是一人
之力所能移动？5000kg+. Guess that reputes ZWJ internal >>>>Greats.

Novel implies that OYF, GJ, HR and H7G can lift it without a problem. Assuming 5000kg: 3 greats equivalent, therefore 1 great is 1700kg. IMO probably more to the 2000kg mark, as they (the four) can lift it without question, and the tide's effect can hardly equal to that of a Great.

Off topic, the breathing tube OYK was give would be over half a meter long. That would require some serious breathing muscles and internal energy to breath through such a length. BTW how thick is a 芦苇 pipe?

[yittz]

Ooops doing other stuff while I was posting, bits redundant.

Point is a great can lift over/around 2000 kg based on boulder scenario.

[Ian Liew]

So basically, a fighter with high inner strength could easily lift a huge rock equivalent to a few hundred catties singlehandedly (with left hand), using it as an offensive weapon. Other than Zhang Wuji, who else managed that feat in JY's novels?

Jue Yuan is probably the one who comes closest, running like mad while carrying two adults in his two buckets. Of course, the effort killed him, and he was using the same internal energy as Zhang Wuji.

Liu Zhengfeng used Xiang Danian's body as an offensive weapon, but of course poor Xiang peobably didn't weigh anything near 150kg. In any case, Liu didn't actually fight much with the corpse, just used it to distract Fei Bing while he attacked.

How heavy was YG's Iron Sword?

[Black Night Sea]

So basically, a fighter with high inner strength could easily lift a huge rock equivalent to a few hundred catties singlehandedly (with left hand), using it as an offensive weapon.
Other than Zhang Wuji, who else managed that feat in JY's novels?

LOCH CH2

…But when his(Wanyan Honglie) eyes checked on the copper vat that he supported on his palm, he was shocked, so much so that he involuntarily rose out of his seat.
This sort of vat was commonly seen in temples and was used for burning papers and fake money for the dead. It was more than 4 feet in diameter and very likely to be no less than 400 catties(200 catties in 3rd edition) and more. Inside the vat came the aroma of wine, which gave an indication that the vat was loaded with good liquor, surely making the vat even heavier(liquid contained can be heavy stuff). Yet it didn’t seem to entail strenuous effort from him whilst he held it under his palm…One by one Qiu Chuji would give them(7 Freaks) a nod as a show of respect, still his right hand has been continuously holding up the vat and it seemed as though he wasn’t experiencing any fatigue at all…

He also used it to play catch with the 7 Freaks and once fought the monk using his free hand. Not to mention snatching it from a temple, which must have been quite a distant away from the restaurant.

If such an example was taken into account could this mean that ZWJ’s internal stregth is = Qiu Chuji(who at best is a yiliu gaoshou then)? 99% would disagree. To use ability in lifting weights as a basis for comparing people’s internal strength would lead to countless inconsistencies. These feats are almost identical in his other books in the way that the object carried/lifted will remain inside the values of 200-400 pounds in weight. Those people concerned all did it with ease (IIRC).

Here’s another example:
HSDS CH5

……笑聲中只見天鷹教的兩名舵主各抱一塊巨石……這兩人是天鷹教中出名的大力士，武功平平，但身軀粗壯，天生神力，每人所抱的巨石都有四百來斤，…
…Amidst the laughs can be seen of 2 Helmsmen from Heavenly Eagle Sect each carrying a gigantic rock…Both of them were distinguished musclemen from Heavenly Eagle Sect, martial arts(consisting of inner strength too) were average though, but being powerfully built and born with superhuman strength, they were able to carry massive rocks that were over 400 pounds in weight each…

When there is a need to discuss a person’s superiority over another in inner strength then you might want to go in more detail and consider influences such as the individual’s muscular strength or perhaps their martial arts style in this case e.g. Xiaoyao Sect specialises in [舉重若輕] martial arts, which coordinates well in lifting heavy stuff. On the other hand, Duan Yanqing is more suited with the opposing style of [舉輕若重] and in spite of that his internal energy was still extremely good. His training in Yiyang Finger I don’t think is as complete as Yideng, but he can execute the moves from the word ‘go’ without concern of delays.

As for ZWJ using that rock as a weapon...becoz of the sheer size of it it almost eclipsed him and actually required very little movement to fend off the 2 guy’s sword swipes, basically all-defence and no attack. ZWJ would in fact hold the advantage when it comes to weaponry compared to them.
…高矮二老使開了反兩儀刀法，刀刀狠辣，招招沉猛，但張無忌手中這塊石頭實在太大，只須稍加轉側，便盡數擋住了二老砍劈過來的招數。高老者大叫：「你兵刃上占的便宜太多，這般打法實在不公平。」…

How heavy was YG's Iron Sword?

Over 70 pounds.

[FruityPunch]

Hanky Panky: I am actually aware of both examples you’ve listed out above. The reason why I left them out was because I felt the situation wasn’t the same as ZWJ’s. I am also aware of the “inborn strength” as described by JY and the fact than muscular people are able to lift heavy weights as well. Therefore I concur with your opinion that weight-lifting doesn't purely involve inner strength. However:

The differences

- ZWJ fought with a rock with his left hand holding the rock. He was able to talk and utilize his qinggong at the same time. To control a weapon of tremendous size and weight (far exceeding his own weight), he must be more than capable of withstanding the force or pull of the rock in any of the directions it was heading for. This includes pulling the rock back and forth, up and below, while engaging in actual battle. Just as QCJ, ZWJ didn’t experience any sort of fatigue. In fact, it was hardly an indication of ZWJ’s limit, though it was a good preview of what he was capable of doing with his inner strength.

- QCJ used the vat as an expression of his strength. (It was actually the first example given by the topic starter.) He fought with his free hand while standing, but not with the hand holding the weight itself. He was controlling the vat with his right hand, while fighting with his left. It was actually stated that QCJ had the best strength among the QZ Masters, but I also doubt he would have matched ZWJ, inner-strength wise.

- The two Chiefs from Tianyin Sect were muscular men who carried huge rocks. But they only carried the rocks; they didn’t fight with them. And they carried the rocks with both hands.

The two old guys fighting ZWJ were basically shameless people. The more they fight, the more likely they were to further disgrace themselves and their ancestors. It was they themselves who chose the weapon for ZWJ. Then it was also them who said ZWJ had the advantage in weapons.

?!

So basically, a fighter with high inner strength could easily lift a huge rock equivalent to a few hundred catties singlehandedly (with left hand), using it as an offensive weapon. Other than Zhang Wuji, who else managed that feat in JY's novels?

I was referring to my perception that a fighter with high inner power could probably fight like ZWJ. I didn’t mean he was the only one who could do it. I was also asking for a list of examples of people in JY’s novels who could fight like ZWJ, not proclaiming him as the best fighter in the world.

The earlier comparison with OYF’s rock was a mistake, which I ratified immediately. The comparison wasn’t fair to OYF, because I realised OYF’s rock was clearly much heavier. While we have seen at least OYF’s limit, we haven’t seen ZWJ limit.

I also asked another question, but since nobody answered me, I went for rocks and marbles, since this topic involved lifting weights. I was merely offering an illustration of people who could lift rocks, and since someone mentioned ZWJ using rocks to fight, I decided to use that as an example. That, by no means equals ZWJ’s physical or inner strength limitations.

Comparing ZWJ’s fighting with a rock to OYF lifting a rock was more like a scorn to OYF, since it was his own son who was crushed and he was totally helpless.

Anyway, I could only remember 4 fighters whose internal energy were good enough to form some sort of protective shield around their body. They were:

1. Sweeper (DGSD)
2. Xu Zhu (DGSD)
3. Zhang Wuji (HSDS)
4. Shi Potian (OTG)

Another vague indication of the depth of ZWJ’s inner strength would be this:

Chapter 20 (HSDS)

As he kept going on, he heard two darts from behind, and someone yelled, “Who is it? Stop!” Zhang WuJi did not slow down, simply waved his sleeves to blow away the darts. Only then did he hear a scream. He stopped, turned around, and saw a monk on the ground, with two darts on his right shoulder. Zhang WuJi felt astonished, as he did not know that a wave of his arm could have so much power behind it. He hurried to the monk and apologized, “I’m sorry that I accidentally hurt you.” And then took out the two darts.

Yet this monk suddenly struck out at him, his right foot struck at Zhang WuJi’s left waist. Zhang WuJi didn’t expect this, and couldn’t dodge it. Yet for some reason that monk instead bounced away, hitting a tree behind him. His right foot broken, his mouth filled with blood.

But by going further into the subject of ZWJ’s inner strength, we would have seriously strayed out of topic, because as like what you say, weight-lifting in JY’s wuxia world involves both inner strength and physical strength. Ironically, in real life, I have never seen for myself anyone using “chi” to lift rocks, although I’ve heard of some miraculous people using their penises to tow cars. What would be more appropriate to this thread would be further examples of martial artists in JY's world who actually lifted weights, one way or another. Are there any more examples?

Hope I haven't offended anyone.

[ChronoReverse]

Well, just remember this. That very same vat QCJ was holding without trouble... the leader of the 7 Freaks spun it on top of his staff like a plate...