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Thread: Greats' disciples

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    Senior Member yittz's Avatar
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    Default Greats' disciples

    Without 9yin white claws and disabilities (blinding+crippling), were HYS's disciples better fighters than that of WCY's? Or could have been more powerful say at end of LOCH?

    Does that mean HYS is a better teacher than the other Greats? (not inc H7G cause of GJ+HR, but without them he's nothing)

    It appears OYF is the worst, considering he only has 1 disciple, and started training him earlier than mid-age (as in WCY+YD's) and has the closest relationship.

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    Senior Member Ardor's Avatar
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    OYF's second disciple did amazing.
    Burying his Dugu 9 Jian manual under an epitaph, Dugu Qiubai felt he has left his legacy for the next generation. He then moved to Shaolin to study Buddhism, sweep floors and tap elite fighters.

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardor
    OYF's second disciple did amazing.
    thanks to this second disciple learning tons of other advanced martial arts.

    Does that mean HYS is a better teacher than the other Greats?
    I don't think so, because Huang's disciples did not have the misfortune of not practicing martial arts until very late, did they?
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Quote Originally Posted by yittz
    Without 9yin white claws and disabilities (blinding+crippling), were HYS's disciples better fighters than that of WCY's? Or could have been more powerful say at end of LOCH?

    Does that mean HYS is a better teacher than the other Greats? (not inc H7G cause of GJ+HR, but without them he's nothing)

    It appears OYF is the worst, considering he only has 1 disciple, and started training him earlier than mid-age (as in WCY+YD's) and has the closest relationship.
    Individually, I would think that HYS's students were better than WCY's students. However,WCY's 7 disciples could potentially defeat HYS while HYS's students would definatley lose to HYS. Even though WCY's students are weaker individually, I think they should get some credit for working together to maximize their power. Also, by he way that HYS treated his disciples, one would have to say that he's the worst teacher.

    According to JY, OYK was quite formidable and people were impressed with how OYF taught him. It could be an exagerration on JY's part since GJ surpassed OYK pretty quickly.

    With H7G, it's hard to say because GJ/HR definately had help from several other martial arts experts, especially GJ. I think H7G helped GJ/HR tremendously but it's hard to say if it's more than what OYF did for OYK.

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    Senior Member Ren Ying Ying's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wu Wudi
    With H7G, it's hard to say because GJ/HR definately had help from several other martial arts experts, especially GJ. I think H7G helped GJ/HR tremendously but it's hard to say if it's more than what OYF did for OYK.
    no kidding...imagine GJ w/o his dragon palms and HR w/o her dog beating stick (though i think the former would suffer more)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Ying Ying
    no kidding...imagine GJ w/o his dragon palms and HR w/o her dog beating stick (though i think the former would suffer more)
    Yeah, HR had the uncanny ability to beat or at least evade people much more powerful than her. Who would you say is more dangerous, you or HR? It's a close call since you did take down DFBB.

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    Senior Member Ren Ying Ying's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wu Wudi
    Yeah, HR had the uncanny ability to beat or at least evade people much more powerful than her. Who would you say is more dangerous, you or HR? It's a close call since you did take down DFBB.
    now "dangerous" would be RYY of course. she is afterall "killing people w/o blinking eyes".

    but as an opponent, HR definitely takes the throne...over pretty much all JY's chars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Ying Ying
    now "dangerous" would be RYY of course. she is afterall "killing people w/o blinking eyes".

    but as an opponent, HR definitely takes the throne...over pretty much all JY's chars.
    I think that HR would be just as ruthless in dealing with someone who she considers to be evil. Afterall, she never displayed mercy to OYF the way that GJ did after OYF went insane.

    So do you think that HR would win a fight against RYY?

    I think RYY is stronger in martial arts but HR has a little edge mentally since HR's IQ seems to be off the charts. However, HR is also arrogant and flaunts her mental superiority. RYY has an advantage over HR in that she guards her thoughts very well and can get an enemy to let down the guard.

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    Senior Member Ren Ying Ying's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wu Wudi
    I think that HR would be just as ruthless in dealing with someone who she considers to be evil. Afterall, she never displayed mercy to OYF the way that GJ did after OYF went insane.

    So do you think that HR would win a fight against RYY?

    I think RYY is stronger in martial arts but HR has a little edge mentally since HR's IQ seems to be off the charts. However, HR is also arrogant and flaunts her mental superiority. RYY has an advantage over HR in that she guards her thoughts very well and can get an enemy to let down the guard.
    HR wouldn't mind killing OYF, but she doesn't randomly kill people just b/c she was upset over some small thing, now would she?

    i would actually say HR is higher in martial arts...the one in ROCH at least, and maybe the one at the end of LOCH (they both should be around the same age at that time, and i would consider the skills that HR learned to be better...though we know she gets very side tracked). i don't think HR intends to flaunt her knowledge unecessarily. ie, in her "battle" against qiu qian chi, she hid her "secret advantage" quite well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Ying Ying
    HR wouldn't mind killing OYF, but she doesn't randomly kill people just b/c she was upset over some small thing, now would she?

    i would actually say HR is higher in martial arts...the one in ROCH at least, and maybe the one at the end of LOCH (they both should be around the same age at that time, and i would consider the skills that HR learned to be better...though we know she gets very side tracked). i don't think HR intends to flaunt her knowledge unecessarily. ie, in her "battle" against qiu qian chi, she hid her "secret advantage" quite well.
    I was thinking of RYY after she changed her flighty temper because of LHC.

    HR didn't kill randomly but she did break the bones of or cut off ears of people that offended her. She also considered defacing MLC when she thought that MLC wanted to marry GJ. She was quite a bad girl in LOCH.

    My point about HR and RYY's differences with regards to their mental abilities is that people know that HR is smart and would be guarded against her. However, RYY is very dangerous mentally too but people are less likely to be guarded against her because RYY is better at hiding her intelligence.

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    Senior Member junzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wu Wudi
    HR didn't kill randomly but she did break the bones of or cut off ears of people that offended her. She also considered defacing MLC when she thought that MLC wanted to marry GJ. She was quite a bad girl in LOCH.
    They didn't need to have offended her...... she cut off some part of a fat bride (I think) just for fun. While GJ looked on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by junzi
    They didn't need to have offended her...... she cut off some part of a fat bride (I think) just for fun. While GJ looked on.
    Yeah, she was quite a bully but somehow those acts made her more lovable than the relatively harmless things she did to YG.

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    Senior Member junzi's Avatar
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    But that part surprised me a bit, cos GJ did nothing to stop her. I'd thought he would.

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    Quote Originally Posted by junzi
    But that part surprised me a bit, cos GJ did nothing to stop her. I'd thought he would.
    I think that bride was rich and very mean to poorer people which is why they thought she demanded some torment. Also, GJ wasn't exactly as 1 dimensional as some people think. JY said that GJ still had some youthful mischievousness in him and so he had fun with HR's planks such as stealing a chicken.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wu Wudi
    Individually, I would think that HYS's students were better than WCY's students. However,WCY's 7 disciples could potentially defeat HYS while HYS's students would definatley lose to HYS. Even though WCY's students are weaker individually, I think they should get some credit for working together to maximize their power. Also, by he way that HYS treated his disciples, one would have to say that he's the worst teacher.

    According to JY, OYK was quite formidable and people were impressed with how OYF taught him. It could be an exagerration on JY's part since GJ surpassed OYK pretty quickly.

    With H7G, it's hard to say because GJ/HR definately had help from several other martial arts experts, especially GJ. I think H7G helped GJ/HR tremendously but it's hard to say if it's more than what OYF did for OYK.
    HYS's students actually didn't even get the top arts of HYS. They didn't learn the Falling Leave Sword Palm or the Sweeping Leaf Leg which are HYS's 2 earliest delightful works. However, even so, each of the disciples was said by both HYS and HYS' 5th student that any of the other 4 disciples could all defeat LMC. So indidvidually, I'm more impressed with HYS's teaching. The only thing is that HYS broke his disciple's legs...

    OYK being at the level he is is actually quite impressive for someone without any super arts or no shortcuts. The reason why GJ started to get pass OYK is because first he got ZBT's L/R and 9 Yin. And before that, GJ got XL18Z. OYK on the other hand didn't learn OYF's Toad Stance because Toad Stance was too dangerous to learn and OYF felt OYK wasn't ready yet(stated in 3rd edition ROCH).
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    one would have to say that he's the worst teacher.
    There were definitely worse teacher than Huang Yaoshi. Check out the WORST TEACHER topic

    If you are only talking about the Greats, then I agree. Although, Ouyang Feng seemed to have the tendency to smack his student on a regular basis (the novel said something like how he wanted to smack Yang Guo but the latter's handsomeness and resemblance to his son saved the day).

    HYS's students actually didn't even get the top arts of HYS.
    Just like to point out that Wang Chongyang's disciples didn't get the top art of Central Divinity either.

    How much of Zhang Sanfeng's best arts did his 7 heroes get?
    Last edited by PJ; 08-11-06 at 09:17 PM.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    There were definitely worse teacher than Huang Yaoshi. Check out the WORST TEACHER topic

    If you are only talking about the Greats, then I agree. Although, Ouyang Feng seemed to have the tendency to smack his student on a regular basis (the novel said something like how he wanted to smack Yang Guo but the latter's handsomeness and resemblance to his son saved the day).

    ?
    Yeah, I was just trying to say HYS is the worst teacher among the greats. Crippling the other good disciples who were shown to be super loyal to him was just truly cruel.

    I thought OYF only had his son OYK as a disciple and he really spoiled him? I knew that OYF took YG's dad as a disciple too, but he was exposed as OYK's killer before learning anything from OYF.

    With regards to smacking, I know that ZWJ got smacked by his godfather repeatedly for just making minor mistakes in recitation of martial arts techniques.

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    I believe the 7 Heroes got Taiji and probably 1/3 9 Yang too. Along with other goodies like the Zhen Wu formation and Tiger Claws.

    Z3F is alot freer with his martial arts than others :P

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    Senior Member yittz's Avatar
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    The thread wasn't about HYS's teaching quality, but teaching ability - you know how good he is at transmitting knowledge rather than how many students he kill in doing so. I know they may affect each other, but I hope you get the jest.
    Member of HYS fanclub -> click here to join group.

    Member of TC fanclub.

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    Senior Member Athena's Avatar
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    I do believe that Huang Yaoshi's pupils would have been likely to grow better and stronger than the disciples of the Greats (minus Hong Qigong).
    All of his pupils were fairly young when he taught them, all of them were quite intelligent. Although Qu Lingfeng was not that much younger than Huang Yaoshi (at least that's my impression after reading the third edition of LOCH). Qu was a lot older than Mei Chaofeng, that much I do know (probably 15 years or so).
    Qu also took over some classes from time to time, teaching his younger martial arts sister, brothers literature, martial arts. My opinion is that Qu Lingfeng would have been the heir to Huang Yaoshi, if not for tragedy........

    Before calamity struck, the Peach Blossom Isle disciples had a bright future in the realm of martial arts. Only Mei Chaofeng comes close to being superior to Ma Yu, Qiu Chuji and Wang Chuyi. In one on one situations, she would have more lethal techniques, while Ma Yue (or Qiu Chuji/Wang Chuyi) would have better internal power. But she would be marginally better than they are, probably win by half a stance or so after a good fight.

    If the Seven Masters of Quanzhen became Central Divinity's disciples when they were middle-aged, if they were "recruited" when they were children. I would put my money on them.
    South Emperor's disciples were taught the better stuff, after they quit their government jobs and became official students of Yideng. The novel never indicated that they were "martial arts-less" when they were ministers. In fact, it is more or less implied that all of them were already martial artists prior to becoming Yideng's pupils. They learnt Yiyang Finger after LOCH and before ROCH starts. Because during their fight with Yinggu in LOCH, they didn't know Yiyang Finger.
    Hong Qigong's evaluation of Ouyang Ke was after meeting him for the first time: [沒出息] (a good-for-nothing). And wondered if Ouyang Feng had another heir, who was more worthy. I can't blame Hong Qigong for saying that. Ouyang Ke started to train under his uncle/father at the age of five and he was 35 when we meet him. Ouyang Ke = pathetic.
    So huge, so hopeless, to conceive
    As these that twice befell
    Parting is all we know of heaven
    And all we need of hell.

    Emily Dickinson (1830-1886)

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