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Thread: Greats' disciples

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athena
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    Hong Qigong's evaluation of Ouyang Ke was after meeting him for the first time: [沒出息] (a good-for-nothing). And wondered if Ouyang Feng had another heir, who was more worthy. I can't blame Hong Qigong for saying that. Ouyang Ke started to train under his uncle/father at the age of five and he was 35 when we meet him. Ouyang Ke = pathetic.
    Was Hong just talking about Ouyang Ke's character? I thought that the Quanzhen priests and the other fighters that serve the Jin thought that Quyang Ke's martial arts were pretty impressive. Of course, Hong probably also had a higher standard.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Han Solo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athena

    Hong Qigong's evaluation of Ouyang Ke was after meeting him for the first time: [沒出息] (a good-for-nothing). And wondered if Ouyang Feng had another heir, who was more worthy. I can't blame Hong Qigong for saying that. Ouyang Ke started to train under his uncle/father at the age of five and he was 35 when we meet him. Ouyang Ke = pathetic.
    LOCH states that OYK can be compared to the QuanZhen 7 in terms of martial arts.

    Han Solo

  3. #23
    Senior Member hkopinions's Avatar
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    OYK didn't get to Toad Stance because he wasn't ready?

    OYF taught YG told stance when he was just a boy--could be because he was a little crazy but nothing bad happen to YG who had no martial arts background before then

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    YG was extremely lucky that he didn't die from it. OYF was crazy, so he didn't care (or even remember that it was harmful probably).

  5. #25
    Senior Member hkopinions's Avatar
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    Then OYK should have taken that chance since he had a strong martial arts foundation compared to YG with no MA easily bullied by the Wu brothers

  6. #26
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    well, OYK didn't get Toad Stance.... which clearly is OYF's #1 and most critical art. Unlike the other Greats, OYF seems to have specifically only Toad Stane as a trump card. H7G has XL18Z/Dog Beating, Yideng has Pre Heaven/Solitary Yang, HYS has the whole Peach Blossom Arts which the likes of Sweep Leaf Leg, Falling Leave Sword Palm, Divine Flick. So I think OYF had less materials and if OYK didn't learn the most important art, then he would naturally be weaker.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by hkopinions
    OYK didn't get to Toad Stance because he wasn't ready?

    OYF taught YG told stance when he was just a boy--could be because he was a little crazy but nothing bad happen to YG who had no martial arts background before then
    Stated in the ROCH 3rd edition.
    Because the practice procedure is extremely dangerous, OYF didn't give it to OYK. It's said that if you mess up one procedure in a breathing part, then you'll likely have serious internal injury or even die. That is why even OYK didn't get Toad Stance. The reason YG got it was because OYF was still in his crazy mode where he didn't know the seriousness of the matter. So YG was pretty lucky.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by hkopinions
    Then OYK should have taken that chance since he had a strong martial arts foundation compared to YG with no MA easily bullied by the Wu brothers
    OYK was the one person that OYF seriously cared about, he couldn't his own son take that chance.

  9. #29
    Senior Member yittz's Avatar
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    Interesting that OYF possibly held OYK back. Although I would imagine OYF is the best to judge whether one is ready or not.

    To Athena: If you still see this thread next time you visit, can you please give a rough indication of old each great is and HYS's students and QZ's.
    Or anyone else?
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  10. #30
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    It might be the case that OYK was entirely capable of learning Ha Mo Gong but that OYF wanted to be sure since the results of being wrong are disastrous. And furthurmore if OYK were to barely learn Ha Mo Gong, he might still be injured in some way or suffer great pain, etc.

    Of course if it's so dangerous how did OYF create it in the first place without getting killed :P

  11. #31
    Senior Member Athena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Han Solo
    LOCH states that OYK can be compared to the QuanZhen 7 in terms of martial arts.

    Han Solo
    There lies the contradiction (in my eyes). Ouyang Ke was often ranked as equal to the mercenaries of Wanyan Honglie (Sha Tongtian, Peng Lianhu, etc.) but also he was also sometimes ranked as equal to Ma Yu, Qiu Chuji and Wang Chuyi.
    In chapter 11 the part where Yang Tiexin met up with Qiu Chuji again after all those years, we can see that Peng Lianhu, Hou Tonghai and Ouyang Ke combined forces to attack Qiu Chuji. Qiu Chuji held his ground and reached a stalemate with them. If Ouyang Ke was equal to Qiu Chuji, with the assistance of two other peers of himself wouldn't he be able to kill Qiu Chuji rather fast? But that doesn't happen. A poisoned Ma Yu was able to ward off a combined attack of Sha Tongtian and Liang Ziweng (again two martial artists ranked as peers of Ouyang Ke) for a short while.
    *1 Qiu Chuji began to lose when all of them (including Liang and Sha) attacked him.
    Sha Tongtian, someone who was often ranked as equal to Ouyang Ke throughout the novel, clashed palms with Qiu Chuji. Qiu was only a bit shocked to see that this bald man can take his palm, Sha's arm felt numb and pain. Sha Tongtian engaged Qiu Chuji again with bare hands, Qiu Chuji whisked him on his head with his fingers; leaving red imprints on the bald head of Sha. Qiu Chuji was able to force Peng Lianhu to drop one of his Judge's brushes in a few bouts.
    It would seem that one on one, those mercenaries of Wanyan Honglie are inferior to Qiu Chuji (and subsequently Ma Yu and Wang Chuyi as well*2)

    *1: This happened before Ma Yu was poisoned.
    *2: Ma Yu, Qiu Chuji and Wang Chuyi were all the three strongest of the Seven Masters. Ma Yu's fighting skills and technique wise profiency was said to be a bit inferior to Qiu Chuji and Wang Chuyi. (Although, I think he makes up for that with more stronger and abundant internal energy. Jin Yong never said that Ma Yu had the strongest or deepest internal strength compared to the others, but he did always stress that Ma Yu had deep and profound energy more than he did with the others).

    My look at this is: How can Ouyang Ke be equal to the Seven Masters, and also to those mercenaries? Did Jin Yong mean that they belonged to the same class category? That is possible, but as equals that would seem not true.
    Lav ranked the weaker masters of Quanzhen as equals to the mercernaries (including Ouyang Ke), while Ma, Tan, Liu, Qiu, Wang were a notch better.
    If you read some of Laviathan's posts on ranking LOCH and ROCH mid-level fighters in the past, you often would see that in his eyes Sun Bu'er (or Hao Datong)= Ouyang Ke.

    On the top of that, Ma Yu and Qiu Chuji were able to do some things that impressed Huang Yaoshi a bit.
    Qiu Chuji was able to whisk Huang in the chest with his sleeve, but that was because Huang underestimated Qiu. But nonetheless, not bad for old Qiu.
    Ma Yu counter attacked Huang Yaoshi's attack during their battle in Misty Rain Pavilion. Huang Yaoshi stormed at Ma, assuming that Ma would not be able to do anything but move away from his key position in the formation. But Ma Yu raised his sword and counter attacked. His technique was steady and firm, generated with powerful internal energy. Huang Yaoshi moved away and genuinly praised:"Worthy of being the Quanzhen head disciple!"

    Yittz, I am not sure what you ask of me? Could you elaborate?


    Edit: You're right, Ken. Qiu Chuji slapped Sha Tongtian on the head and left a red mark there.
    Last edited by Athena; 08-15-06 at 07:39 AM.
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  12. #32
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    I think yittz meant the age or how old they are as he said.

    IIRC, the QZ 7 are around the Greats age. IIRC, Oue Yang Kae was in his 30s(I can't remember, but it was stated in LOCH the relative age).

    The Greats at the end of ROCH were in their 90s. The Greats in LOCH were in their 50s. GJ at the end of ROCH was 55. YG was 36. XLN was 40. ZBT is also around the other Greats. WCY is considerably older than the other Greats, even though I don't know by how much...
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

  13. #33
    Senior Member yittz's Avatar
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    Yep what Whsie said, the importance of missing out words such as 'how'. Thanks.

    So who is the elder of the greats, in order. Yi Deng always appears to be the oldest to me, or maybe ZBT.
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  14. #34
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athena
    Qiu Chuji whisked him on his head with his fingers; leaving red imprints on the bald head of Sha.
    I'm guessing that this statement implies that the red imprints were injurious to Sa Tung Teen in some way; otherwise, it reads like Yau Chui Gei was simply decorating Sa's bald head.

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