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Thread: What was Murong family's plan to restore its dynasty?

  1. #1
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Default What was Murong family's plan to restore its dynasty?

    It's been established that Murong Bo and Murong Fu want to restore Yan dynasty.

    What exactly did they want? Certainly it was more than the emperor's head. Otherwise, it should be relatively easy for Murong Bo to sneak up and kill the emperor, given his unstoppable martial arts talent. They would need a lot of support from the central plains in order to control the large population. But did they have any support, after all their effort? Did they also want to restore the dynasty, with their own people in the government?

    It just seems like they weren't accomplishing anything.
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    Senior Member Siven's Avatar
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    Given that their ancestors were only the rulers of a small regional kingdom, one of many that arose after the Tang dynasty and later assimilated into the Song, their idea was to gather enough resources to raise an army and carve out a piece of territory and then declare independence from the Song. It would've bee much easier to have the help of Xixia, one of Song's traditional rivals.

    I doubt that they ever planned to take over in place of the Song central government. They just wanted what they had before, which wasn't much.
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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    I think it was Candide who once wrote a post here about how half-baked the Mo Yung Family's plan for restoring the Yin Kingdom was. They somehow got it into their heads that killing a few Khitan peasants at the Sung/Liao border using Chinese wulin personnel would somehow trigger a war that would weaken all the existing kingdoms in eastern Asia. Maybe the Mo Yungs should have put down the martial arts manuals and picked up a few books on international relations instead.

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    Senior Member kamii's Avatar
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    This question, i was going to post about this myself but never really got round to it. There just seem to be so many flaws to the father and sons plan to revive their country.

    Things like their people, the people from 'yin' have already died out or the remaining small proportion are seperated and spread out into different parts of or possibly different countries. By getting a war started and then using their army or by other means, create a new country....how is this the 'yin' country. There's no more 'yin' people man, all the people are just gonna be people you have bought out.

    I don't get it. Maybe it's just that they want to have a country called 'dai yin' and don't really care how the country is as long as they are restored as royalty.
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    we can have new people or citizens of yan county.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wkeej
    we can have new people or citizens of yan county.
    They might not assent to being subjugated by the Mo Yungs, however...which will mean more war.

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    Senior Member kamii's Avatar
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    I just don't get the reasoning behind their quest to revive their country. Maybe its just family pride that caused them to blindly pursue a dream that kinda doesn't add up.

    I DON'T GET IT!
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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamii
    I just don't get the reasoning behind their quest to revive their country. Maybe its just family pride that caused them to blindly pursue a dream that kinda doesn't add up.

    I DON'T GET IT!
    Most of us don't. Mo Yung F'uk was certifiably insane, and I have my doubts about his dad as well.

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    hmm, just imagine you are an emperor yesterday but today it's gone. any "normal" human being will want to go back to be an emperor unless it's a pain in the a$$.

    Quote Originally Posted by kamii
    I just don't get the reasoning behind their quest to revive their country. Maybe its just family pride that caused them to blindly pursue a dream that kinda doesn't add up.

    I DON'T GET IT!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    They might not assent to being subjugated by the Mo Yungs, however...which will mean more war.
    hmm, BUT if they are "great and nice" people [which of course I do not think so - the father indirectly totally responsible for ah zhu's death whereas the son killed a number of innocent people (but then, indirectly totally responsible for my wish to come true)], why not?
    Last edited by wkeej; 12-15-05 at 05:20 AM.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wkeej
    hmm, just imagine you are an emperor yesterday but today it's gone. any "normal" human being will want to go back to be an emperor unless it's a pain in the a$$.
    Except the two generations of Mo Yungs seen in DGSD had never been emperors or princes. They came about generations after their ancestral kingdom was relegated to the dustbin of history. They were fighting for an abstract ideal, and a darn impractical one at that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    Except the two generations of Mo Yungs seen in DGSD had never been emperors or princes. They came about generations after their ancestral kingdom was relegated to the dustbin of history. They were fighting for an abstract ideal, and a darn impractical one at that.
    that could be even a stronger reason for them to want to go back to the "good old days", more so now as they may think that being emperors/kings look and sound great.

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    Senior Member Guo Xiang's Avatar
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    I've been wondering too. I mean, they haven't even been to assembling some sort of an army for themselves! So how do they really expect to restore Yan Dynasty just by making a name for themselves in the pugilist world and stirring up trouble between two countries??
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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    The Mo Yungs had ambition, but I don't think they had any plan beyond, "Let's make crap up as we go along and see what works!"

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    Senior Member yittz's Avatar
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    And how successful would an empire be, when its soldier are either bought with money or burrowed from another country.

    Like what Ken said, they have a goal/destination, but have no decent plan to reach it.

    At least MRF made the right decision at the end, being crazy sure beats passing these genes and inspirations to next generation and so on.

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    Senior Member Athena's Avatar
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    In the third edition the Qingcheng School and Qin Family Bandits will become banner men of the Murong family. Bao Butong gave them an option, enter our service and we will help you locate the killers of your father and/or martial arts brother but from now on you will obey our commands. If not, you can get lost. It is implied that the Murong family already had some other martial artists and some small martial arts schools under their command, whenever they waved their little black banner, the Murong banner men will obey. Wang Yuyan added a bonus she said that she will tell them the missing martial arts of their schools. Of course both Qingchen and Qin family Bandits accepted.
    However, I think the Murong family would still be outnumbered if they (+banner men) were faced with Shaolin or Tonglao and her henchmen.

    As for Murong Bo's plan to kill a few Khitan peasants....this is altered as well.

    Xiao Yuanshan was the drill inspector of the Khitan imperial guards. He was also a clansman of the Liao empress dowager. Because of his incredible martial arts both the emperor and the empress dowager had respect for him, although Xiao Yuanshan did not fill any important post in the empire his words carried a lot of weight because of his good relationship with the empress dowager and emperor. He was a proponent of the peace between the Song and Liao empires. That is why Murong Bo wanted him dead. By the way, Xiao Yuanshan did speak a little Chinese, but those Chinese martial artists did not understand him because Xiao had a very heavy Khitan accent.
    Even, abbot Xuanci, Wang Jiantong and Zhiguang had heard of the name Xiao Yuanshan and respected him for being a fighter for peace. They were very worried and sad when they realised they had accidentally killed him and they feared retaliation of the Liao empire. Fortunately, that did not happen.
    Last edited by Athena; 12-17-05 at 04:52 AM.
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    Senior Member Bai Qi44's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yittz
    And how successful would an empire be, when its soldier are either bought with money or burrowed from another country.
    Actually, quite. Sun Ce borrowed troops from Liu Baio and that's how he started the kingdom of Wu. At least according to the novel. I don't know about real history, but I'm guessing it wouldn't be off when it comes to something like this.

    As for MuRong family's plans... It seems rather stupid. Instead of reading war manuals, they're reading martial arts manuals.
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    Senior Member Athena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bai Qi44
    Actually, quite. Sun Ce borrowed troops from Liu Baio and that's how he started the kingdom of Wu. At least according to the novel. I don't know about real history, but I'm guessing it wouldn't be off when it comes to something like this.

    As for MuRong family's plans... It seems rather stupid. Instead of reading war manuals, they're reading martial arts manuals.
    You mean Yuan Shu, don't you? Because Liu Biao was responsible for the death of Sun Jian, father of Sun Ce. Sun Ce borrowed 3000 soldiers from Yuan Shu and used the imperial seal as a deposit.
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    Senior Member shen long's Avatar
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    ur right Athena.

    Back to the topic, why did MRB faked his own death?

    Did he do it becos he felt its a lost cause and he would rather spend his remaining years to pursue his interest in learning other martial arts instead?
    Last edited by shen long; 12-16-05 at 11:57 AM.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    Being the #1 martial artist isn't a criteria for being an emperor/restoring a dynasty. Other than the Song dynasty founder who was just a crap martial artist whose techniques were reverred simply because he was the bloody emperor, the rest I think were just fat balding impotent men with the right brains. The Murongs certainly had their priorities upside down.
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