Chan Yeun Fung vs. Mui Chiu Fung

[Ken Cheng]

Chan Yeun Fung was killed in a fluke by 6-year old Gwok Jing before we even got to know him, but his wife Mui Chiu Fung survived to become the seventh best fighter in the world after the five Greats and Kau Cheen Yan by the time she died (although she would soon be surpassed by Gwok Jing). At the time of his death, was Chan Yeun Fung a better fighter than his wife? Had he lived, how good would his martial arts have become by the end of LOCH?

[wkeej]

wouldn't zhuo zhotong be better? how's about ying-gu and also yideng's disciples and also the huang yaoshi's lu disciple? hence mei chaofeng may not rank as the seventh?

in the adaptation, there isn't much fighting by her husband. so it may be difficult to judge.

[Ken Cheng]

wouldn't zhuo zhotong be better?

Chow Bak Tung was one of the five Greats, and thus, already accounted for.

how's about ying-gu and also yideng's disciples

No. Each of them was much weaker than Mui Chiu Fung during LOCH.

and also the huang yaoshi's lu disciple?

He was weaker than Mui Chiu Fung. Luk Sing Fung had no more training in Peach Blossom Island martial arts than Mui Chiu Fung had, was crippled (a much greater handicap than being blind), and didn't know any skills from the 9 Yum Jen Ging (no 9 Yum White Bone Claws in Luk Sing Fung's repertoire).

hence mei chaofeng may not rank as the seventh?

She was definitely seventh until Gwok Jing overtook her.

[Ian Liew]

Chan Yeun Fung was killed in a fluke by 6-year old Gwok Jing before we even got to know him, but his wife Mui Chiu Fung survived to become the seventh best fighter in the world after the five Greats and Kau Cheen Yan by the time she died (although she would soon be surpassed by Gwok Jing). At the time of his death, was Chan Yeun Fung a better fighter than his wife? Had he lived, how good would his martial arts have become by the end of LOCH?

Chen Xuanfeng was much stronger at the time of his death. He taught Mei Chaofeng her portion of the 9yin, and would study everything in-depth until he thought she was ready for it before teaching her. Mei Chaofeng might not have improved much over the period she spent in Mongolia, until Ma Yu gave her a bit of advice on inner energy cultivation. After that the returned to China, lived under the Jin Palace, then went to Returning Spirit Villa, neither time showing any particular improvement in her skills. Lu Chengfeng knew he wasn't a match for her (although he thought Chen Xuanfeng was coming as well) and that was based on what he knew of her years ago.

I guess because Chen and Mei lacked the nner energy cultivation portion of the 9Yin, ther martial arts had reached a plateau even by the time Chen was killed, and if it wasn't for Ma Yu's tips Mei would have been even weaker, and probably would have lost the use of her legs permanently. My guess is that Chen would have been seventh by the end of LOCH (eighth, actually, since GJ would have moved in 7th) and Mei ninth. It's unlikely that Chen would have improved much more with his deviant style of martial arts, even taking into account that he was more talented than Mei.

[Ren Wo Xing]

I'm assuming Chan Yeun Fung is Cantonese for Chen Xuanfeng, Mei Chaofeng's husband?

If so, in that case, he was definitely much better than his wife at that time. It's evident in the book that his martial arts were better; in fact, due to his better martial arts understanding, he was the one who read the actual 9YZJ, pondered on it, deciphered how it could be used, THEN transmitted what he figured out to his wife.

[LuNaR]

i thought 1 of the quan zhen 7 ji could take her and couldnt huang rong take her?

[Athena]

Ma Yu, Qiu Chuji and Wang Chuyi are roughly equals of Mei Chaofeng. So, Mei's 7th place should be shared with some others.

[Ken Cheng]

i thought 1 of the quan zhen 7 ji could take her and couldnt huang rong take her?

Ma Yuk, Yau Chui Gei, and Wong Chui 1 each had slightly better inner power than Mui Chiu Fung did, but her martial arts were somewhat better than each of theirs.

The older Wong Yung from ROCH could definitely defeat Mui Chiu Fung straight up, easily. The young Wong Yung from LOCH couldn't do it (at least not without using strategy).

[bloodstar]

didn't Chen Xuanfeng practise some kind of martial arts that made him supposedly invulnerable? And Guo Jing stabbed his only vulnerable point by accident and killed him... did this "iinvulnerable" martial arts come from the 9Yin manual?

[junzi]

Chan Yeun Fung was killed in a fluke by 6-year old Gwok Jing before we even got to know him, but his wife Mui Chiu Fung survived to become the seventh best fighter in the world after the five Greats and Kau Cheen Yan by the time she died (although she would soon be surpassed by Gwok Jing).

wouldn't zhuo zhotong be better?

Chow Bak Tung was one of the five Greats, and thus, already accounted for.

But Zhou Botong only became one of the Greats in RoCH, many years after Mei Chaofeng died. Was he already more powerful than Mei Chaofeng in LoCH?

[Ken Cheng]

But Zhou Botong only became one of the Greats in RoCH, many years after Mei Chaofeng died. Was he already more powerful than Mei Chaofeng in LoCH?

Definitely. There was never a time when Mui Chiu Fung's martial arts were equal to or better than Chow Bak Tung's; for as long as Mui Chiu Fung lived, her martial arts were always much weaker than Chow Bak Tung's.

Although Chow Bak Tung didn't officially gain the title of Great until the end of ROCH, his martial arts were already on par with (or maybe even slightly better than) those of East Heretic Wong Yerk See, West Poison Au Yeung Fung, South Emperor 1 Deng the Monk, and North Beggar Hung 7 Gung by the end of LOCH. Had Chow Bak Tung fought in the Second Mt. Hua Sword Tournament, he probably would have won (even against the crazed Au Yeung Fung).

[Mojo Jojo]

How about Golden Wheel Monk and the Master of Passionless Valley? We don't know what they're capable of at the time, but it's certainly reasonable to assume they were better than Mei Chao Fung.

[Ken Cheng]

How about Golden Wheel Monk and the Master of Passionless Valley? We don't know what they're capable of at the time, but it's certainly reasonable to assume they were better than Mei Chao Fung.

The Golden Wheel Monk was definitely better than Mui Chiu Fung. Honestly, although Mui Chiu Fung owned fighters on the level of the Gong Nam 7 Freaks, she was a joke compared to the Greats. The Golden Wheel Monk, on the other hand, was a Greats-level inner power and near-Greats level martial arts techniques fighter even when he first showed up in ROCH. The Golden Wheel Monk's inner power was actually slightly better than Gwok Jing's at the time (and Gwok Jing's inner power was at least equal to those of the other Greats), but Gwok Jing edged the Golden Wheel Monk out in fighting techniques.

As for Gung Sheun Tze, he was not nearly Greats-level, but I'd say that he was considerably more powerful than Mui Chiu Fung. Mui Chiu Fung was about equal to fighters such as the Cheun Jen Sect Elders Ma Yuk and Yau Chui Gei (again, near par, but Mui Chiu Fung's fighting skills were better than that of each of the two Taoists, and each of the two Taoists' inner power was better than that of Mui Chiu Fung). Gung Sheun Tze, however, was evidently beyond any one of the Cheun Jen 7 Disciples.

[Mojo Jojo]

The Golden Wheel Monk was definitely better than Mui Chiu Fung. Honestly, although Mui Chiu Fung owned fighters on the level of the Gong Nam 7 Freaks, she was a joke compared to the Greats. The Golden Wheel Monk, on the other hand, was a Greats-level inner power and near-Greats level martial arts techniques fighter even when he first showed up in ROCH. The Golden Wheel Monk's inner power was actually slightly better than Gwok Jing's at the time (and Gwok Jing's inner power was at least equal to those of the other Greats), but Gwok Jing edged the Golden Wheel Monk out in fighting techniques.

As for Gung Sheun Tze, he was not nearly Greats-level, but I'd say that he was considerably more powerful than Mui Chiu Fung. Mui Chiu Fung was about equal to fighters such as the Cheun Jen Sect Elders Ma Yuk and Yau Chui Gei (again, near par, but Mui Chiu Fung's fighting skills were better than that of each of the two Taoists, and each of the two Taoists' inner power was better than that of Mui Chiu Fung). Gung Sheun Tze, however, was evidently beyond any one of the Cheun Jen 7 Disciples.

How about Gong Sun Zhi vs Chen Xuan Feng?

[Ken Cheng]

How about Gong Sun Zhi vs Chen Xuan Feng?

Hmmm. At the time that Chan Yeun Fung died, I don't think he'd reached Gung Sheun Tze's ROCH level yet. Had he lived, he might have reached that level.

I'm guessing that Gung Sheun Tze at his peak was around the same level that Gwok Jing was at during the Second Mt. Hua Sword Tournament at the end of LOCH.

[Athena]

As for Gung Sheun Tze, he was not nearly Greats-level, but I'd say that he was considerably more powerful than Mui Chiu Fung. Mui Chiu Fung was about equal to fighters such as the Cheun Jen Sect Elders Ma Yuk and Yau Chui Gei (again, near par, but Mui Chiu Fung's fighting skills were better than that of each of the two Taoists, and each of the two Taoists' inner power was better than that of Mui Chiu Fung). Gung Sheun Tze, however, was evidently beyond any one of the Cheun Jen 7 Disciples.

I disagree here. We do not if the Quanzhen Masters were weaker than Gongsun Zhi. Although a comparison was never made in the novels, but personally I believe that again the elder masters of Quanzhen would be at least equal to Gongsun Zhi and/or perhaps better.
When Yang Guo was fighting Gongsun Zhi, after Yang escaped from the pit together with Qiu Qianchi and her daughter, Yang Guo used primarily Quanzhen swordsmanship against Gongsun Zhi. Although, Gongsun Zhi was gaining the upper hand, he was unable to defeat Yang Guo. It was said in the same chapter that Yang Guo's execution of the Quanzhen swordsmanship was stylistically not very good. Imagine if it were Ma Yu, Qiu Chuji or Wang Chuyi were fighting Gongsun Zhi, they would not have that stylistically imperfection in their Quanzhen swordsmanship.

Another thing, Huang Rong may not be inferior to Gongsun Zhi at all. Huang Rong only thought that she would not be able to cope with this man if she encountered him alone. And that was only exchanging a few stances with him. Because in an earlier chapter of ROCH, there was part about the Dual Yin Yang technique of the Gongsun family, Qiu Qianchi said that even the most intelligent person would have to use 50 stances to figure out where the weakness of this martial arts is. But with his (Gongsun Zhi) martial arts how can he not defeat his adversary within 50 stances. But Huang Rong is not just any adversary, with her dog beating stick she could easily keep Gongsun Zhi at bay for 50 stances and after those 50 stances the tables might be turned.

[Mojo Jojo]

Another martial artist potentially better than MCF as of LOCH might be Dragon Girl's teacher.