assorted lists of LOCH and ROCH characters

[Ken Cheng]

Because I don't have a life, I compiled these lists of LOCH and ROCH characters showing who first appeared in LOCH and continued to appear in ROCH, who didn't make it from LOCH to ROCH, who appeared in LOCH and died in ROCH, and who appeared in ROCH only:

Characters From LOCH Who Appeared In ROCH

Gwok Jing
Wong Yung
East Heretic Wong Yerk See
West Poison Au Yeung Fung
South Emperor 1 Deng the Monk
North Beggar Hung 7 Gung
Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung (died before LOCH, but appeared in cameo flashbacks in both sagas)
Chow Bak Tung
Kau Cheen Yan
Ma Yuk
Yau Chui Gei
Wong Chui 1
Lau Chui Yin
Gok Dai Tung
Sheun But Yee
Ohr Jen Ngok
Chu Tze Lau
Mo 3 Tung
The Fisherman
Lo Yau Gerk
Elder Pang (Beggar’s Union traitor)
Sor Goo
Sa Tung Teen
Pang Lin Fu
Ling Tze Seung Yan
Luk Gwoon Ying
Ching Yiu Ga
Wan Tze Ping
Ying Goo
General Lui Mun Dak

Characters From LOCH Who Did Not Reappear In ROCH

Gwok Siu Teen
Yeung Teet Sum
Pau Sik Yerk
Lee Ping
Prince Yeun Nan Hung Lit
Yeung Hong
Muk Lim Chi
Au Yeung Hak
Genghis Khan
Prince Tolui
Princess Hua Jeng
Ogodei Khan
Jagatai Khan
Jochi Khan
Dosee
Wang-Khan
Jamorkha
Jebeh
General Bok
Mui Chiu Fung
Chan Yeun Fung
Madame Wong (Ah Hung, East Heretic Wong Yerk See’s deceased wife)
Luk Sing Fung
Chu Chung
Hon Bo Kui
Nam Hei Yan
Cheung Ah Sung
Cheun Gum Fat
Hon Siu Ying
Tam Chui Deun
Yellow River Four Ghosts
Leung Tze Yung
Priest Burning Wood
Deun Teen Dak
Kau Cheen Cheung
The Woodcutter

Characters From LOCH Who Died During ROCH

North Beggar Hung 7 Gung
West Poison Au Yeung Fung
Ma Yuk
Gok Dai Tung
Wan Tze Ping
Sor Goo (?)
Lo Yau Gerk
Elder Pang
Kau Cheen Yan

Characters Who First Appeared In ROCH

Yeung Gor (although he first appeared in LOCH as a baby, he wasn’t developed as a character until ROCH)
Little Dragon Girl
Gwok Fu
Gwok Seung
Gwok Por Lo
Golden Wheel Monk
Fok Do
Dat Yee Ba
Lee Mok Sau
Hung Ling Bor
Wan Hak Sai
Siu Seung Tze
Lui Mor Singh
Ma Gorn Jor
Lam Chiu Ying (Ancient Tomb Sect founder, flashback cameo only)
Little Dragon Girl’s teacher (second generation Ancient Tomb Sect leader, flashback cameo only)
Granny Sheun
Chiu Tze Ging
Ching Ying
Luk Mo Seung
Luk Lap Ding
Madame Luk
Luk Tzin Yeun (flashback cameo only)
Mo 3 Leung
Mo Dun Yu
Mo Sau Mun
Yeh Lut Chai
Yeh Lut Yin
Yeh Lut Chor Choi
Yeun Nan Ping
Gung Sheun Tze
Kau Cheen Chek
Gung Sheun Luk Ngok
Fan 1 Yung
Indian Healer Monk
Lee Tze Seung
Kublai Khan
Mongke Khan
Dook Goo Kau Bai (mentioned; did not appear)
Divine Condor
Big Headed Ghost
The Gang of Ghosts From San Sai
The Shih Brothers

It gives you a fairly good idea of how many of ROCH's characters were new, how many were holdovers from LOCH, and how many old LOCH characters were lost between the two sagas and during ROCH.

[Dania]

Oh dear, how did Sor Goo die?

[IcyFox]

Characters who appeared in L/RoCH and also appeared in HSDS:

1) Guo Xiang
2) Zhang Jun Bao (Zhang San Feng)
3) Reverend Wuse
4) Yin Kexi
5) Xiao Xiang Zi

Characters who appeared in L/RoCH but were only mentioned in HSDS:

1) Yang Guo
2) Xiao Long Nu
3) Guo Jing
4) Huang Rong
5) Qiu Chu Ji
6) Guo Polu
7) Yelu Qi (Not sure.)

Plus the 5 Greats.

[Ken Cheng]

Oh dear, how did Sor Goo die?

Murdered by Lee Mok Sau.

[Ken Cheng]

Characters who appeared in L/RoCH but were only mentioned in HSDS:

1) Yang Guo
2) Xiao Long Nu
3) Guo Jing
4) Huang Rong
5) Guo Polu
6) Yelu Qi (Not sure.)

I think that each of the Greats got at least a namecheck in HSDS, and HSDS actually starts off with a quote by Yau Chui Gei.

[IcyFox]

Murdered by Lee Mok Sau.

Really? Which edition?
I remember translating Chapter 37 which said HYS mentioned that Cheng Ying and Lu Wushuang lived in seclusion with Sha Gu. That's way after LMC died at the Loveless Valley.

I think that each of the Greats got at least a namecheck in HSDS, and HSDS actually starts off with a quote by Yau Chui Gei.

Oh yah, correct, I forgot Qiu Chi Ji.
But did any adaptations actually mention this?

[Dania]

Murdered by Lee Mok Sau.

Thanks, Ken.

[Ken Cheng]

Really? Which edition?
I remember translating Chapter 37 which said HYS mentioned that Cheng Ying and Lu Wushuang lived in seclusion with Sha Gu. That's way after LMC died at the Loveless Valley.

You're probably right. Sor Goo was murdered by Lee Mok Sau in ROCH '83 not long before Lee Mok Sau herself died.

Oh yah, correct, I forgot Qiu Chi Ji.
But did any adaptations actually mention this?

Doubtful. It's kind of hard to narrate a poem on TV (it's doable, but usually not worth doing).

[Siven]

This reminds me of another article that attempted to establish the major characters' age. Turns out that by the time of the Battle of Xiangyong at the end of ROCH, the older generation were almost all hundred years and older, and still jumping around like young men.

I'll translate it if I find it again, funny read.

[wkeej]

interesting list. how long is actually the time span from beginning of loch to end of hsds?
1. loch - starts when gj is still in the womb and ends when he is around 20?
2. roch - starts when yg is one yr old and ends when he is around what age?
3. hsds - starts when zsf is around what age and ends when he is around 81?

[IcyFox]

interesting list. how long is actually the time span from beginning of loch to end of hsds?
1. loch - starts when gj is still in the womb and ends when he is around 20?
2. roch - starts when yg is one yr old and ends when he is around what age?
3. hsds - starts when zsf is around what age and ends when he is around 81?

Zhang San Feng was a Shaolin monk of around 16 (GX's age) when he 1st appeared in RoCH. When ZWJ's parents died he already celebrated his 100th birthday. ZWJ took another 8-10 years to become a major character.

So between the end of RoCH and the end of HSDS should be around 100 years.

[Ken Cheng]

interesting list. how long is actually the time span from beginning of loch to end of hsds?
1. loch - starts when gj is still in the womb and ends when he is around 20?
2. roch - starts when yg is one yr old and ends when he is around what age?
3. hsds - starts when zsf is around what age and ends when he is around 81?

There's a timeline here (not my website, but the timeline is based on information I compiled).

ROCH ended when Yeung Gor was about 36 years old...about 23 years after the story began.

HSDS begins with Cheung 3 Fung celebrating his 90th birthday (74 years after his second encounter with Gwok Seung at Shaolin and 77 years after his first encounter with her and the Greats at Mt. Hua during the end of ROCH). Cheung Mo Gei came to China for the first time ten years later, and another ten years passed until the Battle of Gwong Ming Peak. From there, two or three more years pass.

All told, the CONDOR HEROES TRILOGY lasts approximately 150 years from the time that Yau Chui Gei first meets the Gwoks and the Yeungs in Ox Village to the time that Cheung Mo Gei resigns as Leader of the Ming Cult to be with Chiu Mun. That's pretty much the entire timespan of the rise and fall of the Mongol Empire in China. In calendar years, it's approximately C.E. 1200-1350.

[Ken Cheng]

Zhang San Feng was a Shaolin monk of around 16 (GX's age) when he 1st appeared in RoCH.

Cheung Gwun Bo was three years younger than Gwok Seung; he was only 13 when he appeared at the end of ROCH, and 16 when he saw Gwok Seung again at the Shaolin Temple three years later.

[wkeej]

thanks, ken. perhaps yg is the only person who can live through the trilogy?
one year old at end of loch?
4 years old at start of roch?
?? years old at start of hsds?

?? - yg is 18 years older than gx? zsf is 3 yrs younger than gx, therefore, yg is 21 yrs older at zsf? since hsds starts when zsf = 90 yrs old, yg = 111 at start of hsds?

[Ken Cheng]

?? - yg is 18 years older than gx? zsf is 3 yrs younger than gx, therefore, yg is 21 yrs older at zsf? since hsds starts when zsf = 90 yrs old, yg = 111 at start of hsds?

Well, *in theory* Yeung Gor could still be alive at the time that HSDS begins (people have lived that long), but I doubt it. It gets a bit ridiculous when everybody starts living into the triple digits (Cheung 3 Fung was kind of exceptional). I have a feeling that Yeung Gor probably checked out in his 70s or 80s...a good 20-30 years before HSDS proper begins.

[Xi Men Chui Xue]

Care to explain how Qiu Qian Ren died? Tot he was Yideng's student then? Hmm...

[IcyFox]

See Chapter 34. (It's not translated yet, though.)

Basically he fought with the new improved Golden Wheel Monk.

[Ken Cheng]

See Chapter 34. (It's not translated yet, though.)

Basically he fought with the new improved Golden Wheel Monk.

It was said to have been a good, tough fight that lasted an entire day and night. In the end, however, the Golden Wheel Monk prevailed and Kau Cheen Yan was mortally wounded.

[Tazzy1972]

Well, *in theory* Yeung Gor could still be alive at the time that HSDS begins (people have lived that long), but I doubt it. It gets a bit ridiculous when everybody starts living into the triple digits (Cheung 3 Fung was kind of exceptional). I have a feeling that Yeung Gor probably checked out in his 70s or 80s...a good 20-30 years before HSDS proper begins.

I suspect both YG and XLN died together... such is their love for each other is so great that when one dies the other will commit suicide.

[Xi Men Chui Xue]

Thanks, Ken and IcyFox.